Home Freeze Drying

[Maddy]

It takes about 30 seconds of Google (or DuckDuckGo) searching to find out that NaturalNews.com is not a useful and reliable source of...well, anything. . .

I'm aware that they often get their facts wrong. But this is a thread about freeze drying. It was just to add a little flavor and snark to the discussion.

You seem quite upset, and I doubt it has anything to do with freeze drying or California's energy policies.

[Maddy]

. . .

[sophie]

My back-of-the-napkin calculations say that a single run costs about $4.00 in electricity. Add $1.00 for mylar and O2 absorbers, and you're looking at about $5.00 a batch. This is a REALLY rough comparison, but Provident Pantry #10 cans of chicken (24 servings, they say; roughly 1 gallon?) are running about $80. https://www.ebay.com/p/1100499764. I can easily do that in a single batch. A $12 jumbo pack of deboned chicken breasts will give me about a gallon of freeze-dried food, so, roughly speaking, I'm spending $17.00 to get the equivalent of what I would otherwise pay $80 for.

For what it's worth, I cannot imagine getting 24 servings out of a #10 can that rattles as if it's only half-full. So I'm probably coming out somewhat better than the above calculation would suggest.

Yes, that part I get: operating & supply costs will definitely be lower for home freeze-drying as opposed to buying off the shelf. But, the freeze dryer you bought retails for around $2,400 plus sales tax/shipping so let's call it $2600.

If we assume a 10 year lifetime of the machine and that you do 50 freeze drying runs in a year (picking numbers out of the air), that's $2600 for 500 runs, or a little over $5 a run. And, the break-even point is 41 freeze drying runs over the lifetime of the machine ($2600/41 = $63 per run, which is about the difference between your operating costs and purchase price if you simply bought the freeze dried food). So ok - you've convinced me!

How many freeze drying runs do you expect to make with this machine per year? Out of curiousity. And what items do you plan to eat routinely as opposed to building up an emergency food stash?

[Maddy]

How many freeze drying runs do you expect to make with this machine per year? Out of curiousity. And what items do you plan to eat routinely as opposed to building up an emergency food stash?

So far I've been doing a batch every couple of days, so at this rate, maybe 150?

I confess I've been dipping into a lot of what I've stored away. The last couple of weeks I've been eating my egg/ham/zucchini/pepper/onion scrambles for breakfast. It sure beats taking the time to chop all that stuff and to clean a pan! And for the last two nights I've been working my way through the spinach casserole that was also packed away in mylar. And the rice pudding. . . Well, I demolished that in four days!

I've discovered that I really don't enjoy taking the time to make meals. This has been a pretty good solution!

As far as the cost-effectiveness calculations go, one additional factor is that the machines appear to be hold their value pretty well. I have no idea what used freeze dryers are actually selling for, but I've seen them advertised on Craiglist for only a few hundred dollars less than new.

[Mark Leavy]

Thoroughly loving this topic. The whole "freeze" then sublimate process is brilliant.
I'll probably stick to slicing eye of round into strips and hanging it in the desert breeze, but... all kinds of food preservation are fascinating.

[sophie]

That is a perfectly valid use of your freeze-dried treasure trove Maddy!

I've always cooked in large batches, then I freeze some to pull out later. It's very little extra work to make a large pot of something than 1 or 2 servings, like you get with meal kits. I also would find it annoying to have to cook from scratch, I would end up ordering out half the time. So this really works for me, and I only have to engage in a serious cooking session once or twice a week. The only difference with what you're doing is that you're freeze drying instead of freezing.

If there were such a thing as a microwave-sized freeze dryer, I might be tempted! But, if I were to go buy that small fridge sized version that you have, I might as well just buy a larger freezer. Part of it is the weird economics of a NYC coop: electricity is included in maintenance, so the freezer costs me nothing extra to run. Same for the salad greens I put under a T2 grow light. My only ongoing costs are for seeds, fertilizer, and occasional bags of plant medium.

[Maddy]

We need a thread for freezer meals. Pictures or it didn't happen.

[dualstow]

We need a thread for freezer meals. Pictures or it didn't happen.

And perhaps a thread on canning.

[sophie]

I'm too lazy to post pictures, but I took advantage of the rainy/stormy weather yesterday to stay home and cook my favorite beef stew. Adapted from Julia Child's Zinfandel of Beef recipe.

2 lbs stew meat (all I had or I would have gone with 4 lbs and doubled this recipe)
Saved beef, pork, duck or bacon fat for frying
1 large sliced onion
2 carrots (I actually used a carrot and a parsnip because that's what I had)
Handful of chopped garlic cloves
1 can diced tomatoes
Half a bottle of red wine
Spices: salt, pepper, dash cinnamon, allspice, thyme, bay leaf, cayenne pepper or a thai chili pepper or chili garlic paste, to taste

Dry the stew meat, season with salt and pepper, and brown in the fat in batches in a Dutch oven to avoid overcrowding the pan. Remove to a separate bowl.
Stir fry the onions in the Dutch oven, adding extra fat if needed (shouldn't be).
Add all ingredients and mix together. If extra liquid is needed, add chicken broth.
Bring to a simmer on the stovetop, then either continue cooking at a low simmer for ~2 hours with the lid off or move the pot to a 325 oven.
Watch the liquid and add more if needed. The idea is to let the liquid cook down to a sauce on its own.

Serve over cauliflower rice or starch of choice, and top with sour cream. I'm keeping this in the fridge for the week, but it's fine to divide in half and freeze a portion. This recipe freezes very well.

Important: freeze in a glass/pyrex container and then put this into a Ziploc freezer bag if you plan to keep it for more than a week. Also, your freezer should maintain a temperature of zero degrees F or below. If it goes above 10 degrees F, that's how you get freezer burn. I have no problems with that anymore, between my Subzero fridge/freezer and my cheap but effective chest freezer which is set to -10 F. I've also found that food stays good in the Subzero fridge for a lot longer than in my former Fisher-Paykel (which in turn is better than your standard Whirlpool or GE fridge). I know a Subzero is pricey, but many argue that it pays for itself over time because of its long life (it's intended for a 20 year service life and parts of it are guaranteed for that long), and the savings on food that is less likely to spoil.

[Mark Leavy]

While I definitely think that freeze drying is the bee's knees, if you find yourself in the desert, a good net will dehydrate most anything. I've been living off of jerky for the past few weeks. The real stuff is nothing like commercial jerky. Just meat and spice and maybe some vinegar or lime juice.

Flank or round, cut across the grain. Cut thick - about 1/4". Hang to dry until the final hanging weight is about 45% of the raw meat weight. 2 to 2 and a half days here. I buy up about 9 pounds of meat at a time. Dry until it is 4 pounds. Split into 10 vacuum sealed bags and each bag is 1/2 day's worth of meat.

I'm using this recipe (which is super delicious, but too hot for my gal). For my next batch, I'll try swapping the vinegar for lime juice. I have high hopes.

Code: Select all

9 to 10 lbs of flank steak, cut across the grain in 1/4” strips.
2 cups of apple cider vinegar
1 cup of Sriracha hot sauce
1/2 cup of crushed red pepper flakes
1/2 cup of freshly ground black pepper
15 grams of cayenne pepper (3) tablespoons
15 grams of smoked paprika (3) tablespoons
3 tablespoons of minced garlic
4 tablespoons of dried onion flakes (1/4 cup)
1.5 tablespoons of salt.

Marinade for 24 hours
Dry until the meat has lost 50 to 55% of its weight.

IMG_4257.jpeg (3.36 MiB) Viewed 38037 times

The net is hanging from an old timey fish scale so I can tell when it has dried enough.

I thoroughly love the old methods of food preservation. I had an ex GF threaten to leave me when I told her that there wasn't any need for a fridge. She is smarter than I am, so I acquiesced.

[glennds]

While I definitely think that freeze drying is the bee's knees, if you find yourself in the desert, a good net will dehydrate most anything. I've been living off of jerky for the past few weeks. The real stuff is nothing like commercial jerky......

Do you like smoke flavor? Looking at the net I'm imagining building a fire nearby and letting the smoke waft through it once in a while.
A friend has a freezer full of elk meat and now I'm thinking we should make some elk jerky out of it.
Looks really interesting!

P.S. I've always wondered why the majority of jerky is sweet BBQ or soy sauce based. I've never come across any with seasonings i.e. Greek seasoning, Cajun, Indian masala, Lemongrass Vietnamese. Tandoori chicken jerky anyone? Seems like there would be endless possibilities.

[dualstow]

That recipe looks fantastic, Mark.
Every guy should be lucky enough to find a partner who eats jerky.

[Mark Leavy]

Do you like smoke flavor? Looking at the net I'm imagining building a fire nearby and letting the smoke waft through it once in a while.
A friend has a freezer full of elk meat and now I'm thinking we should make some elk jerky out of it.

The net is (unfortunately) some plastic material. I wouldn't hang it near a fire. But otherwise - yes of course. The Comanche hung their jerky next to a smoky fire for the warmth, lower humidity, insect repellent, taste and (possibly) preservative qualities of the smoke.

Elk makes great jerky. It is generally nice and lean and so can make tough, tasty steaks but also tough tasty jerky. And I don't think you could go wrong with any of your spice ideas. Sounds like a new startup about to happen.

[glennds]

Do you like smoke flavor? Looking at the net I'm imagining building a fire nearby and letting the smoke waft through it once in a while.
A friend has a freezer full of elk meat and now I'm thinking we should make some elk jerky out of it.

The net is (unfortunately) some plastic material. I wouldn't hang it near a fire. But otherwise - yes of course. The Comanche hung their jerky next to a smoky fire for the warmth, lower humidity, insect repellent, taste and (possibly) preservative qualities of the smoke.

Elk makes great jerky. It is generally nice and lean and so can make tough, tasty steaks but also tough tasty jerky. And I don't think you could go wrong with any of your spice ideas. Sounds like a new startup about to happen.

Mark, have you had any experience with drying and dehydrating fish? I have seen dried fish all over Asia, but never gave a second thought to how it was made until this thread and the jerky discussion.

Also regarding the refrigerator and the former GF - maybe she wasn't smarter than you after all. Admittedly I'm only scratching the surface of a subject you most probably know, but I'm part way through a book about gut health. What an eye opener. The author talks about good gut bacteria and flora, and how the advent of refrigeration took us a big step backwards by stifling the good bacteria that our ancestors had in abundance.
Most of us in modern society have little to no trace of many strains that are still abundant in those few hunter/gatherers on the planet who are removed from modern life (including refrigeration), and mostly removed from modern diseases too.

I just wonder if the natural method of drying and dehydrating that you are doing is gut friendly in this regard also, i.e. no high temperature cooking and no refrigeration. Like I say, I'm only scratching the surface, but it's a totally interesting subject and if you and others are knowledgeable about it, let's give it its own thread.

I'm planning on following your jerky lead this weekend, will report back.

[Mark Leavy]

Mark, have you had any experience with drying and dehydrating fish? I have seen dried fish all over Asia, but never gave a second thought to how it was made until this thread and the jerky discussion.

Also regarding the refrigerator and the former GF - maybe she wasn't smarter than you after all. Admittedly I'm only scratching the surface of a subject you most probably know, but I'm part way through a book about gut health. What an eye opener. The author talks about good gut bacteria and flora, and how the advent of refrigeration took us a big step backwards by stifling the good bacteria that our ancestors had in abundance.
Most of us in modern society have little to no trace of many strains that are still abundant in those few hunter/gatherers on the planet who are removed from modern life (including refrigeration), and mostly removed from modern diseases too.

I just wonder if the natural method of drying and dehydrating that you are doing is gut friendly in this regard also, i.e. no high temperature cooking and no refrigeration. Like I say, I'm only scratching the surface, but it's a totally interesting subject and if you and others are knowledgeable about it, let's give it its own thread.

I'm planning on following your jerky lead this weekend, will report back.

Yes, the net I bought was primarily for drying fish. I do like me some smoked salmon, but in general dried fish is just reliable protein. I don't find it that tasty. Dried shrimp is a pretty common snack in Asia and Mexico. Tasty with enough chili and lime.

I do like that you keep more nutrients by air drying - and you can control the ingredients. But there isn't anything more magic than that.

The ex GF was/is smart. She fermented her own pickles and sauerkraut and made her own cheese. (And good looking and a hell of a writer, but I digress...)

I'm a bit non-plussed by all of the literature on gut flora. It's a bit like people getting all woo woo about walking barefoot or being in the sun or drinking river water. Um... of course. We're animals.

Good luck.

[dualstow]

In Richard Wrangham’s ‘Catching Fire,’ the author posits that we developed bigger brains and better nutrition because we started cooking.

[glennds]

In Richard Wrangham’s ‘Catching Fire,’ the author posits that we developed bigger brains and better nutrition because we started cooking.

Maybe because cooking facilitated the ingestion of more animal protein?
One case for damaged gut flora is that it is an unintended consequence of our modern fetish for antibiotics.
Ayurvedic medicine is highly gut centered, for whatever that may be worth.

[dualstow]

In Richard Wrangham’s ‘Catching Fire,’ the author posits that we developed bigger brains and better nutrition because we started cooking.

Maybe because cooking facilitated the ingestion of more animal protein?

I think so, but I think it also unlocks things in vegetables. I know some people eat raw potato slices, but can they digest them?


Also, is a refrigerator any more antiobiotic than freeze drying? (It might be, but I honestly don’t know)

[glennds]

Also, is a refrigerator any more antiobiotic than freeze drying? (It might be, but I honestly don’t know)

I don't know, but when I mentioned antibiotics I was talking about pharmaceuticals which basically strip bomb the flora in the gut.

In the context of the book I mentioned, he talks about beneficial bacteria that arises from fermentation and culturing which a refrigerator will inhibit. But then, nothing that's been freeze dried is going to ferment either. I think the benefit of freeze drying is preserving the nutrients that are already there including those that would be lost in heat canning.

[dualstow]

When I make kimchi, I ferment it for three days at room temp, but then it goes into the fridge where it continues to build complex flavors. I hope the fridge isn’t doing something to the bacterial flora & fauna.

[glennds]

When I make kimchi, I ferment it for three days at room temp, but then it goes into the fridge where it continues to build complex flavors. I hope the fridge isn’t doing something to the bacterial flora & fauna.

From what I understand you're doing it perfectly. The fridge doesn't ruin the bacteria you've already cultivated. I'm doing something similar with culturing yogurt for 36 hours to proliferate the bacteria strain, then refrigerate.

[boglerdude]

I fill my belly with pure ethanol every night, the bugs seem ok with it.

That said id like to work pickled red cabbage into the routine, in case the probiotic and pigment/antioxidant stuff is true