The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

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TripleB
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The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by TripleB »

I'm starting to get a case of the stock picking bug again. It's not "too bad" because I still believe in the PP, but I am starting to believe I can pick stocks for the 25% equity position. Help talk me out of it, because I know 80% of mutual fund managers fail to beat the index and I don't have special access to information.

Here's some observations I've made over the years, and at least in retrospect, they seem as though I could have beaten the market. My theory is that I can identify large cap stocks that will fail, and ones that will succeed, based on personal observation.  Here's some examples:

Apple: I've been using Apple computers for 11 years. Their switch to Unix-based OS X in the early 2000's pushed me towards using them, and I owned the first gen iPod. I knew they were vastly superior to PCs at the time, and I took a lot of abuse and ridicule for several years.

Microsoft: Look at how much money they've been wasting trying to enter new markets like video games. It's ridiculous. How much did they pay for Skype? FFS, they are going to fall harder than they have.

Google: I've been using it for about 7 years. Imagine if I started investing in it when I started using it regularly?

Target (Stores): I've been shopping there and spending about 30% of my non-housing budget for about 10 years. Amazing store. Very clean. Much superior to Wal Mart. Middle class people in non-rural areas hate Wal Mart because they equate it to lower class people. If I invested in them back in the day...

Yahoo: Another company doomed for failure. Once Google took over 5 years ago, it was obvious Yahoo would be worthless eventually. If I shorted them at the time...

Sears Holding/KMart: If anyone didn't see that failure as early as 10 years ago, then you're crazy. KMarts in most areas looked horribly under maintained. They dont get lower class support (because those shoppers go to Wal Mart) and they don't get middle class support (who go to Target). It's a failing straddle.

All Airliners: If the government didn't keep bailing them out every few years, we wouldn't have airliners. They treat people like shit, and they let the government force TSA down their throats. No one is traveling for leisure anymore, and businesses are starting to use Go To Meeting type services a lot more. They will all fail and will require another bailout in a few years... unless Ron Paul takes over as POTUS, abolishes the TSA, and makes air travel friendlier again. (Interesting side-thought, if Ron Paul does win the Republican primary, then time to buy airliner stocks).

Utilities: No one gave a shit about these until the market crashed. I liked them, and frequently argued on Bogleheads to overweight them slightly because TSM only has about 4% utilities in them. Due to the government monopoly, they can't fall to zero. That also implies there's a ceiling to their profits, but during bad economic times, they are a stable safehaven where dividend-chasing idiots flock. Look at the returns in 2011.

Financials/Banks: It's obvious to me that Dodd-Frank and other big-government nonsense is forcing consolidation within financials. Smaller banks are getting absorbed by bigger banks. We have so few "big" banks anymore, that the government can't let any of them fall. Buy Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Citigroup and you're guaranteed to get huge returns above the SP500 index once the economy recovers.

REITs: It's obvious to me that residential RE is in huge trouble and when interest rates rise, will be in even more trouble, especially with the threat of cutting the mortgage interest tax break, and the threat of consolidated banking system that drives more power to the banks, and thus less to the consumer, and makes housing less attractive. This means apartment rental REITs will go up.

Best Buy: It's going bankrupt within 10 years. Go to their store and look at the assclownery that goes on. They have a price match policy that their cashiers are specifically trained to not give. They have an intranet with one set of prices and an internet with another set so people in the store have to pay more for products. People buy stuff on Amazon to avoid sales tax, and go to BBY just to look at something and then order it online cheaper, and tax-free.

Firearms: The 2 publicly traded US firearms company have had booming years. Anyone who follows firearms knew that gun purchases would skyrocket around the 2008 elections, and will skyrocket again with the risk of Obama being re-elected and imposing gun restrictions.

Here's the problem with having these observations. Just because I know apartment REITs will go up significantly compared to the REIT index, I have no way of investing in the "right" ones. There's an apartment REIT ETF but it's shit and is over 10% Public Storage, on the theory that people moving from houses into apartments will need to store their crap. My theory is that people will throw their shit away and not store it. I don't want 10% Public Storage. That means I have to read through a few dozen 10-Ks just to find "good" apartment REITs that have a found business strategy, and that are in diversified areas of the country. i.e. I don't want an apartment REIT that is predominantly in Michigan.

The second problem is that a lot of things I believe to be true, are based on short bets. I believe BBY will go bankrupt. The problem is that I can't short BBY forever, and it may not go bankrupt before my short position is insolvent. It might go up 50% before it goes bankrupt. I don't know. I just know it will fail. So it's not actionable in the traditional sense.

However, what I am considering doing, according to Modern Portfolio Theory, is to pick 30 stocks from the SP500, and "avoid" the ones that I believe will fail. I believe Facebook is going to get put on the SP500 and will crash and burn. I can avoid investing in FB simply by not picking it as part of my 30 stocks portfolio.

I can still use sector indexes in some cases, such as utilities, where I don't feel it appropriate to pick and choose utilities. I can put 10% of my stock money into VPU, the Vanguard Utility ETF, for example. That's overweight the 5% in TSM, but not so far overweight that it will do harm when it stabilizes.

I can put 3% of my stock money into 30 different stocks, and 10% into VPU. I specifically avoid stocks that I believe will fail. I can essentially do an "SP500 ex-Shitty Stock" parallel. Even if one of my stocks pulls a Lehman Bros, then I only lost 3%.

What I'd likely do is put 10% of my equity position into small cap index, 10% into mid cap index, and 80% into the levels I described above (i.e. 10% utilities of an 80% position is 8% of equities as utility ETF).

I'd predominantly pick companies that I used daily like Apple and Target. This would let me see first hand if they are starting to slip. I'd avoid too much concentration in any one sector. For example, I might put 3% into BAC, 3% into WF and 3% into C, but no other financials. That would be 9% of my "stock-pick" portfolio, which seems reasonable for financials. I wouldn't put too much more into financials, because that would be too much of a sector bet.

When it comes to stock picking, to succeed, one has to have non-efficient information, such as congressmen. I believe my source of competitive advantage is how "picky" I am in what I buy and do. I walk out of stores with long lines, even if I spent 20 minutes filling my cart. That would be an indication that the management is poor, and the company will perform poorly in the future, if that is something that continues to happen. My obvious problem is that I am one person and in select geographic areas, so just noting a few stores are operating poorly, doesn't mean the whole country's national stores are doing bad.

Go ahead PPers. Talk me out of this crazy idea, or get me to do it in VP instead :)

I just really hate looking in my portfolio and thinking "I own 1% of my stock money in Best Buy, knowing they are doomed to bankruptcy." That's my problem with index investing.
Last edited by TripleB on Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by Indices »

Here's the cure: Before you stock pick, see if you can find legitimate millionaires who used their own money to pick stocks and become super rich. Remember, they have to have used their own money and not others' money. Be sure to also find stock pickers who started in similar circumstances to yourself, i.e. invested only a little and were wildly successful. And then determine if any of these people were consistently successful over a long period of time.

Once you've approximated how many their really are you'll see how likely you are to succeed.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by TripleB »

Indices wrote: Here's the cure: Before you stock pick, see if you can find legitimate millionaires who used their own money to pick stocks and become super rich. Remember, they have to have used their own money and not others' money. Be sure to also find stock pickers who started in similar circumstances to yourself, i.e. invested only a little and were wildly successful. And then determine if any of these people were consistently successful over a long period of time.

Once you've approximated how many their really are you'll see how likely you are to succeed.
I don't think I'd become rich from it. I think that I might get 5% to 10% above the SP500, tops.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by craigr »

TripleB wrote:
Indices wrote: Here's the cure: Before you stock pick, see if you can find legitimate millionaires who used their own money to pick stocks and become super rich. Remember, they have to have used their own money and not others' money. Be sure to also find stock pickers who started in similar circumstances to yourself, i.e. invested only a little and were wildly successful. And then determine if any of these people were consistently successful over a long period of time.

Once you've approximated how many their really are you'll see how likely you are to succeed.
I don't think I'd become rich from it. I think that I might get 5% to 10% above the SP500, tops.
If you could consistently beat the S&P 500 by 5-10% a year there isn't a fund company on the planet that wouldn't hire you and make you extremely rich.

But then again, there isn't anyone on the planet that can beat the S&P 500 consistently by 5-10% either!
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by KevinW »

It's not enough to know which companies will do well and which will do poorly.  You also have to calibrate that against their current price.  By analogy, it's easy to say that a Mercedes will be a better car than a Kia, but that doesn't mean that a Mercedes is automatically the better buy.  It didn't look like any of your analyses above took price into account.

IMO, AT&T has been a pretty crappy company for the last 20 years, but they've made a lot of money for their shareholders over that period.  Your interests as a shareholder are different than your interests as a retail customer.

Also, by limiting yourself to companies you know of, you're implicitly eliminating the large fraction of companies that don't deal with end consumers.  I have an opinion on Coke and Pepsi but I'd have no clue about Union Pacific or General Dynamics.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by AdamA »

TripleB wrote: I'm starting to get a case of the stock picking bug again...

Go ahead PPers. Talk me out of this crazy idea, or get me to do it in VP instead :)
I get the speculation bug from time to time.  A recent post of Craig's cured it for me.  I don't even use a VP anymore.

All it said was that his accountant has noticed over the years that he is one of his/her only clients who is successful with his investments from year to year. 

I'm not sure why, but the thought of my accountant thinking the same thing about my investments was enough to make me stop speculating. 

I know it's weird.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by MediumTex »

You are wanting to speculate.

The PP is about depending on reliable relationships among the PP asset classes.  By picking individual stocks you are introducing risk that the PP can't protect you against.

I understand the urge, though.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by Storm »

I totally understand the urge.  As a Computer Science major back in the early 90s, I knew the home computer industry was going to be huge.  At the time, barely anyone I knew was on the Internet.  I knew Microsoft was going to be huge in the coming decade, but I didn't invest.  Think of how rich I would be if I had bought Microsoft stock in, say, 1991.  As a Mac user in the year 2000, I knew, just like you did, that when OS X came out and Apple had superior products, we would be talking about the death of the PC in another decade.  Apple's stock price was literally hammered by the analysts in the early half of 2000s decade.  I remember around 2003 when it was trading below $20 and every time they would announce how many iPods they sold, the market would literally take a dump on their stock and it would lose a few bucks.  I was like, "wtf?  you announce record sales and the market kills your stock?"

Anyway, there are a dozen other stories like this that I could tell you, however, this is why I think I'm not a stock picker:

We only remember the success opportunities we missed, and not the failure opportunities we avoided.  For example, I was seriously contemplating buying Sun stock in the early 2000s when they were selling $1 million computers to every dot bomb startup and Fortune 500 company.  Look where they are now.  I have probably half a dozen other failure opportunities I've missed that I could share with you as well.

I think it's human nature to remember the one big fish that got away, but forget about all the smaller fish that we wasted time reeling in and had to throw back.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by Khisanth »

Keep it in the VP. Cherry picking stocks would entice me to watch the markets more often, and cause me more anxiety. It would make me trade more often, likely to my own detriment. I'm sure you probably have much more self control than me, but...

http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-So-Sm ... 592406599/

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-People-Mone ... 439163367/

I'm reading these two books right now, and the theme is self-deception.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by dualstow »

You can pick a stock for all the right reasons and the company could still fail. What if Steve Jobs had died in '02 and the new chief took Apple in a completely different and unprofitable direction?
KevinW wrote:Also, by limiting yourself to companies you know of, you're implicitly eliminating the large fraction of companies that don't deal with end consumers.  I have an opinion on Coke and Pepsi but I'd have no clue about Union Pacific or General Dynamics.
Very good point.
Storm wrote: We only remember the success opportunities we missed, and not the failure opportunities we avoided.
I think this is the single most important point to remember. We will easily remember failures that we actually bet money on in addition to successes. However, mental bets whether they succeed or fail, simply do not count.

I think a lot of us had similar insights to those listed above. Google? I was rooting for it in late 1999 while my co-worker insisted that LookSmart was the future. What was I going to do? Contact the founders and write them a check? No. I didn't know that search engines were ever going to make money.

Apple? I did make money on that, but I was late to the game along with millions of other investors. What if I had gotten in at the bottom? I probably wouldn't have had the nerve to hold my shares as they multiplied exponentially. (Search this forum and bogleheads for "fruit company").

I also bet on a lot of turkeys.

One way to find out that you can't beat the S&P by 5-10% is by actually doing it in all of your vp. If you succeed, then good on you. But, for most of us it would probably be an expensive lesson.
Last edited by dualstow on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by Alanw »

TripleB
Use stock picking for your VP only.
As far as attempting to pick stocks for your 25% portion of your PP, please refer to "Fail-Safe Investing", Rule #11, item #3: Simplicity.
"The portfolio should be so easy to maintain and require so little of your time, that you'll never be tempted to look for something that seems simpler, but is less safe.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by Ad Orientem »

Stock picking is not investing.  It's speculating.  I think you grasped that given which forum you posted this thread under.  That said there is nothing wrong with speculating as long as you are following HB's + Craig's rules (to which I add one of my own).

1. Never speculate with money you can't afford to lose.
2. Never dip into your PP or other designated funds to cover speculative investments that went bad.
3. Never speculate in any manner that could leave you liable for more money than you originally committed.  Specifically this precludes any form of "margin."
4. Never put money into anything you don't understand.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by TripleB »

BAC up 25% since I wrote this post a few weeks ago. FML.

WFC and C only up about 10% - and my plan would have split all 3 pretty evenly for my "big bank bet."

At least I had the balls to buy EQR and AVB for the apartment REITs. They've outperformed S&P 500 and also the REIT index by a decent amount over the last few weeks. Of course, this is a 5 year+ investment so regardless of whatever happened, I wasn't going to be emotional either way.

I'm really upset I didn't buy BAC. I can deal with losing 25%. I can't deal with standing on the sidelines watching something go up 25% that I knew was a buy.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by Alanw »

TripleB wrote: BAC up 25% since I wrote this post a few weeks ago. FML.

WFC and C only up about 10% - and my plan would have split all 3 pretty evenly for my "big bank bet."

At least I had the balls to buy EQR and AVB for the apartment REITs. They've outperformed S&P 500 and also the REIT index by a decent amount over the last few weeks. Of course, this is a 5 year+ investment so regardless of whatever happened, I wasn't going to be emotional either way.

I'm really upset I didn't buy BAC. I can deal with losing 25%. I can't deal with standing on the sidelines watching something go up 25% that I knew was a buy.

TripleB
I'm not questioning your stock picking ability or your desire to make money on individual trades, but how did you know BAC was a buy?  Did it not look like a buy somewhere in the past 90 days?

If you would have purchased BAC and made 25%, would you sell today?  If you sold today and it went up another 50%, would you be disappointed that you left some money on the table.

Anyway,  keep all the trades in your VP and good luck.  I do understand the urge as I have been there myself.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by TripleB »

Realistically I would have sold BAC when it up 10% in a few days. And I would have been happy with that because I'm not greedy.

I knew BAC was a buy based on 2 factors:

1) The financial sector lost 15% last year and was one of the worst performers. I believe in sector reversion to the mean over long periods of time.

2) I started thinking about Dodd-Frank and realizing that the ultimate result would be consolidation into big banks, who get to suck up small banks for pennies on the dollar. I should have had that realization over one year ago, but it came when I wrote the first post.

Combining #2 with the poor recent performance, I realized BAC, C, and WFC were ripe to pop.

However, one thing that is "curing" me of stock-picking disease is something I read recently, which may have been on here or Bogleheads. It says that the most dangerous thing is a gambler who gets large early wins, because it changes neural pathways in their brain to make them love gambling. I don't like it when my body does things that are bad for me, like encourges me to overeat, or eat fatty foods, which is great for survival/evolution but poor for present day society. Thus, I go out of my way to resist urges I get, and stopping myself from gambling is a good urge to resist.

Also, I started reading recently that big banks have been avoiding foreclosing on deeply underwater mortgages because they get to keep them off their balance sheets until they foreclose, so I actually believe now that the banking industry will need another bailout within the next 1.5 years and I'm bearish. I would have loved a quick 10% gain over a few days though.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by dualstow »

This looks like an incredibly fun book to read, by the way. I'll probably get it.
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Re: The Stock Picking Bug: Help Cure My Latest Disease

Post by alvinroast »

TripleB (you're the TripleB from fatwallet, aren't you?)

I agree with the other responses about why to keep the stock picking in your VP.  I also have another reason. The correlation between the stocks you pick and the other categories of PP. I have a portfolio of conservative stocks that were not actively picked (other than preferreds). While the categories of stocks (Utilities, Consumer Staples and Preferreds) have done well and pay nice dividends, they don't have the volatility to belong in the PP.

I was loath to sell them since the dividends may be tax free this year if I can keep to the 15% bracket. Unfortunately they just don't fit in the PP. This has slowed the full adoption of the PP. At this point I'm still determined to keep the dividend stocks, but I think you have to be keep both the individual picks and the sector picks out of the PP for it to work properly.

While I agree with most of your picks, the problem with stock picking is the market really can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. I went to a Sears a few years back and was amazed that it didn't seem to have changed in the last 30 years (except for a cumbersome warehouse system). I knew it was a sell, but how long would I have held a short position? Same with Best Buy.

The Big Three banks seem like a no-brainer, but they're entirely dependent on the government. What if the next round of bailouts imposes a stop to dividends or a Ma-Bell like breakup? It seems unlikely, but we really don't know. Microsoft may be a big flaming failure on the technology front, but they may last another 50 years as a patent troll. I realize that you're trying to avoid an index fund which owns Best Buy type stocks, but I don't think it works in the PP. I hate the idea of buying LTT at 3%, but that's a part of a successful portfolio.
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