Putin Invades Ukraine II

[Dieter]

For what I think are some interesting analyses of military matters around this —

https://youtu.be/CE6RINU8JLg

Perun — the best military slideshows on YouTube

[dualstow]

Cool!

[yankees60]

For what I think are some interesting analyses of military matters around this —

https://youtu.be/CE6RINU8JLg

Perun — the best military slideshows on YouTube

This was tremendous! So good that while I just finished listening to it a few minutes ago ... shortly I am going to listen to it again.

Highly comprehensive and detailed. As objective as many of the wonderful history books that I read.

Recommended!

[yankees60]

Have you watched Graveyard of the Fireflies?
It’s really good and soulcrushingly sad.

No. Have never heard of it. In general, I prefer my eyes to be reading rather than watching. Take in much more information that way.

What is "Graveyard of the Fireflies"?

It's a feature length animation about two kids making their way in WW2 Japan by Isao Takahata, one of the great directors in the genre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPeTSRd580

Here is a review by Ebert.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9WEyuMq0Yk

Listened to the Ebert review and one that came on right after his was ended.

Hopefully I will get to watch the full length animation soon. But that will require both my eyes and ears, not only my ears which is all podcasts (whether audio or video) get.

[SilentMajority]

Zelinsky did an interview with French broadcaster TF1 on Sunday, confirming they plan to conquer Crimea and "re-take" it from Russia.

He said "the operation itself has not started yet. When it starts you'll definitely hear about it. The re-conquest of Crimea has started in people's heads, and that's very important".

Anybody have any thoughts on this? Should the US government support the Kiev group trying to re-occupy Crimea (which I think is 90% ethnic Russian or something) and bring it back under Kiev's control?

In for a penny, in for a pound they say. Russia will never, ever, surrender Crimea so is everyone excited for perpetual war here and the risk of massive escalation? This is what a US-coup and an open checkbook for the coup government gets you.

Dualstow (or anyone), do you support the US funding and supplying weapons, training, and targeting of Russian forces to drive them out of Crimea? That's what Zelinsky is saying the goal is. What hope is there for negotiated peace in the face of that?

No doubt the Russian people are aware of this. In the face of this, the limited engagement of the operation in 2022 will almost certainly shift in 2023 to total surrender of the Kiev military and all foreign mercenaries out of the Ukraine. Escalation brings major risk to the entire world.

[Kriegsspiel]

Anybody have any thoughts on this? Should the US government support the Kiev group trying to re-occupy Crimea (which I think is 90% ethnic Russian or something) and bring it back under Kiev's control?

In for a penny, in for a pound they say. Russia will never, ever, surrender Crimea so is everyone excited for perpetual war here and the risk of massive escalation? This is what a US-coup and an open checkbook for the coup government gets you.

Dualstow (or anyone), do you support the US funding and supplying weapons, training, and targeting of Russian forces to drive them out of Crimea? That's what Zelinsky is saying the goal is. What hope is there for negotiated peace in the face of that?

Well, it's looking like a done deal now that the Republicans caved in to the spending bill*. We'll be lighting a lot more money on fire in Ukraine over the next year. Not just military hardware, we're also giving their government money to continue operating, and paying to fix a bunch of shit that we didn't even break. I'm starting to wonder if the best-case scenario is another 200,000 casualties, and then Russia gets what it was willing to cease hostilities for months ago: control of the Donbass, and a demilitarized Ukraine.

* I saw a hilarious headline today on Fox Business, "GOP scores win in $1.7 trillion budget deal by cutting IRS funding." In the second paragraph you see that the GOP demanded the "cut" because the Green New De... er, the Inflation Reduction Act already increased the IRS's budget. So they really did nothing. Fucking pathetic.

"Finalizing the omnibus is critical, absolutely critical for supporting our friends in Ukraine," Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y, said.link

McConnell suggested the newly released spending package was a victory for Republicans, even as many in the party are expected to vote against it. He said Republicans were able to successfully add increased defense spending that goes beyond what President Biden requested

Last I looked, they had increased the defense budget by an equivalent amount to what they'd pledged to Ukraine.

dualstow really nailed it a few days ago when he said,

Hilarious, especially since wars like these are a tyrant’s tool for distracting the domestic populace.

[dualstow]

oh kriegs

[Kriegsspiel]

oh kriegs

I feel good now. Give it a shot.

[Xan]

The bishop of Constantinople granted autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine. The one Zelensky is exploring suppressing is the Ukranian Orthodox Church, which is a satellite branch of the Russian Orthodox Church.

I believe this issue was behind the current rift between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Constantinople Patriarchate. For what it's worth I believe our resident Eastern Orthodox, Ad Orientem, supported the Moscow church and said the Orthodox Church of Ukraine was schismatic. (I believe that Orthodoxy in the US is /generally/ descended from the Russian branch.)

I came across an interview with Terry Mattingly about media coverage of churches cancelling Christmas Day services. Mattingly is an Orthodox Christian. He said that the Orthodox Church of Ukraine is experimenting with celebrating Christmas on December 25th instead of according to the Julian calendar as most of Orthodoxy does. (Interestingly, Mattingly's own church here in the US celebrates Christmas on December 25th, although they celebrate Easter according to the Julian calendar.)

He points out that as if we needed more division in Ukraine, there are going to be two different Christmases, and raises the possibility of churches being locked by civic orders on January 7th (which is the Julian Christmas).

It occurred to me that nothing like the Christmas Truce of 1914 could take place if the sides don't even agree on what day is Christmas. Speaking of which, I recommend the 2005 French film "Joyeux Noël".

[Kriegsspiel]

TWO Christmases, an underrated benefit of national divorce.

[SilentMajority]

The bishop of Constantinople granted autocephaly to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine. The one Zelensky is exploring suppressing is the Ukranian Orthodox Church, which is a satellite branch of the Russian Orthodox Church.

I believe this issue was behind the current rift between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Constantinople Patriarchate. For what it's worth I believe our resident Eastern Orthodox, Ad Orientem, supported the Moscow church and said the Orthodox Church of Ukraine was schismatic. (I believe that Orthodoxy in the US is /generally/ descended from the Russian branch.)

I came across an interview with Terry Mattingly about media coverage of churches cancelling Christmas Day services. Mattingly is an Orthodox Christian. He said that the Orthodox Church of Ukraine is experimenting with celebrating Christmas on December 25th instead of according to the Julian calendar as most of Orthodoxy does. (Interestingly, Mattingly's own church here in the US celebrates Christmas on December 25th, although they celebrate Easter according to the Julian calendar.)

He points out that as if we needed more division in Ukraine, there are going to be two different Christmases, and raises the possibility of churches being locked by civic orders on January 7th (which is the Julian Christmas).

It occurred to me that nothing like the Christmas Truce of 1914 could take place if the sides don't even agree on what day is Christmas. Speaking of which, I recommend the 2005 French film "Joyeux Noël".

The Soviets launched significant attacks on Christmas (Dec 25th one) during WW2 against the Germans/Romanians/Italians/Hungarians/Bulgarians/Croats etc. They assumed a lot of the soldiers would be recovering from extra wine rations or otherwise not 100% vigilant. I think the Germans launched counter attacks on the Orthodox Christmas (Jan 6th I thought, not 7) for the same reason. I was thinking it's a high possibility we see something like that here, but wasn't sure if the Ukrainians were celebrating on Dec 25 or Jan 6.

[dualstow]

Putin is a lovely man, and the U.S. is so, so wrong. I can’t figure out why the Russians got Snowden and a handful of other people, and we get thousands upon thousands leaving (some of them fleeing) Russia. Must be the weather. Anyway, it’s beyond the scope of the thread. I’ll wonder elsewhere.

[SilentMajority]

Putin is a lovely man, and the U.S. is so, so wrong. I can’t figure out why the Russians got Snowden and a handful of other people, and we get thousands upon thousands leaving (some of them fleeing) Russia. Must be the weather. Anyway, it’s beyond the scope of the thread. I’ll wonder elsewhere.

I don't recall any posts calling Putin a lovely man (but they might be in here). I think many posts have condemned the US government overthrowing the Ukrainian government, installing a pro-NATO regime and supporting it with money and weapons while it attacks the Eastern provinces that are 90% Russian. That and the threat posed to Russia and peace if Ukraine were to join the anti-Russian military alliance (NATO). That is a criticism of the US government (and media pushing what many consider a false narrative).

FWIW I'm sure Putin is ruthless, as I said before. He was head of the KGB. I don't think nice guys get that assignment.

[stuper1]

The world is big enough for plenty of bad people. I'm an American, so I get to complain about all the mistakes I see my government making. I'll let the Russians complain about their government's mistakes. They overthrew the Tsar and killed the whole family if I'm not mistaken. They know how to do these things, and Putin knows they know how to do these things. He knows if he doesn't do well for Russia, they will kick him out and probably kill him along the way.

I only wish we had a leader in America that would try to do well for Americans, meaning everybody of all classes, rather than just for the super rich. There was a hope at one point that Trump would be like that, that maybe he had enough money in his bank account where he didn't care about money anymore and he just wanted to help his fellow Americans. That turned out to be a pipe dream unfortunately. Obviously people like me were naive. I still would argue that he was a better president than Hillary would have been. He didn't start any new wars for one thing. Many of the bad things that happened were because the press wouldn't accept his legitimacy. I guess they are election deniers. But I digress.

[Tortoise]

The Soviets launched significant attacks on Christmas (Dec 25th one) during WW2 against the Germans/Romanians/Italians/Hungarians/Bulgarians/Croats etc. They assumed a lot of the soldiers would be recovering from extra wine rations or otherwise not 100% vigilant. I think the Germans launched counter attacks on the Orthodox Christmas (Jan 6th I thought, not 7) for the same reason. I was thinking it's a high possibility we see something like that here, but wasn't sure if the Ukrainians were celebrating on Dec 25 or Jan 6.

Wait, I'm confused. Isn't Jan 6th the day that Santa Trump visits good insurrectionists to leave them gifts like buffalo hats and bags of zip ties?

[SilentMajority]

The Soviets launched significant attacks on Christmas (Dec 25th one) during WW2 against the Germans/Romanians/Italians/Hungarians/Bulgarians/Croats etc. They assumed a lot of the soldiers would be recovering from extra wine rations or otherwise not 100% vigilant. I think the Germans launched counter attacks on the Orthodox Christmas (Jan 6th I thought, not 7) for the same reason. I was thinking it's a high possibility we see something like that here, but wasn't sure if the Ukrainians were celebrating on Dec 25 or Jan 6.

Wait, I'm confused. Isn't Jan 6th the day that Santa Trump visits good insurrectionists to leave them gifts like buffalo hats and bags of zip ties?

All I know is it's the darkest day in American history.

[yankees60]

Capture.JPG (103.75 KiB) Viewed 14007 times

[stuper1]

That's very good news to hear that Putin is a toothless, paper tiger. I'm sure out of the goodness of his selfless heart Zelensky will be volunteering to send back most or all of the $45 billion of new aid we just sent him, since obviously he won't need it now. And I'm sure when he does it will be front page news, so I'll be watching for sure not to miss it.

If we can make memes like this about Putin, imagine the field day the Russians must be having making memes about our intrepid inspirational leader Biden. I'm sure these memes are doing wonders for the prospects of diplomacy between two great, proud nations.

[yankees60]

This is a relatively short Lex. Less than an hour.

There is something in this with everyone to agree with it within it.

It is from three months ago. Lex reminds us that he did visit Ukraine during the war and, at some point, will be giving us a podcast regarding it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uHGlfeCBbE

Noam Chomsky: Putin, Ukraine, China, and Nuclear War | Lex Fridman Podcast #316

[dualstow]

I don't think I can stomach Noam Chomsky.

[yankees60]

I don't think I can stomach Noam Chomsky.

I do not think I had ever experienced him before. Thought he was excellent. He is 93 years old and now my role model for how I wish to be able to be in as good physical and mental condition as he is when I reach 93 years old!

Several years ago at a music event I met someone and then after talking to him for awhile I asked him how old he was. After he told me he was 80 years old I told him that he was my new role model, that I could also be going out to hear live music at 80 years old.

[Kriegsspiel]

I don't think I can stomach Noam Chomsky.

I know he was a big hero for the left side of the political spectrum in the past, but he seems to have become seriously demented in his old age. It's just objectively sad, IMO; all of my grandparents were the same right before they died.

[yankees60]

I don't think I can stomach Noam Chomsky.

I know he was a big hero for the left side of the political spectrum in the past, but he seems to have become seriously demented in his old age. It's just objectively sad, IMO; all of my grandparents were the same right before they died.

He did not at all come across that way to me. And, I was surprised to hear him saying a lot of the same things that I have been reading here from both Stuper1 and Silent Majority.

[I Shrugged]

Would it be wrong to say Chomsky is a kinder, gentler Marxist? That’s been my impression. I’m sure it’s more complicated, but that’s my 10,000 foot view of him.

I just can’t take that seriously but I’m sure he is able to make some good logical points about it. Whenever I’ve been exposed to his ideas I’ve run for cover.

[Kriegsspiel]

Would it be wrong to say Chomsky is a kinder, gentler Marxist? That’s been my impression. I’m sure it’s more complicated, but that’s my 10,000 foot view of him.

I just can’t take that seriously but I’m sure he is able to make some good logical points about it. Whenever I’ve been exposed to his ideas I’ve run for cover.

He was demanding that anyone who hadn't gotten the covid injection should be put in camps and left to starve..... Aaaaaand as soon as I wrote it, I get why the leftists like him so much.