Coronavirus General Discussion

[Xan]

Excellent but long article:

Origin of Covid - Following the Clues

"Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?"

This is a really informative article, and makes extremely persuasive arguments that virologists are doing the world a disservice, regardless of the particular origin of SARS-CoV2.

[jalanlong]

.....BUT....if forced to pick a side (else potentially neither side would want to buy its products....being in the middle here would be just like being in the middle of a battlefield; you are standing right in the line of fire from both sides), a company would at least theoretically go with the side that a majority of its potential customers were on were on (or it it were looking to the future as much as the present, that a majority of its potential future customers were on.....as the younger Millennials and older Zoomers grow into their peak purchasing years companies will be targeting them heavily and if the numbers are to be believed these people skew rather heavily socially liberal).

But why must they pick a side on something that really has nothing to do with the product they are selling? I have never ever thought to myself "I wonder what my bank thinks about racial injustice" or "I really wish KFC would give me their thoughts on same sex marriage." Why must they come out and offer an opinion that really nobody asked them for and is not germane to their daily operations?

If I were a shareholder, I would want them to remain silent on any topics that do not impact them directly such as the scarcity of chicken or some such. I wouldn't want to lose any $$ by giving an opinion on something that wasn't absolutely necessary. As a customer I want them focused on offering me a better product or service. I don't want them spending a minute of time trying to figure out where they should come down on a current hot button issue.

As a card carrying member of the Mind Your Own Business Club, I am just burned out on the current culture of people and institutions having to give me their opinion on anything and everything. Whether it is the average Joe on Facebook or the NFL during the Super Bowl, everyone everywhere seems to be making it their mission to to "influence" me!!!

[I Shrugged]

But why must they pick a side on something that really has nothing to do with the product they are selling? I have never ever thought to myself "I wonder what my bank thinks about racial injustice" or "I really wish KFC would give me their thoughts on same sex marriage." Why must they come out and offer an opinion that really nobody asked them for and is not germane to their daily operations?

If I were a shareholder, I would want them to remain silent on any topics that do not impact them directly such as the scarcity of chicken or some such. I wouldn't want to lose any $$ by giving an opinion on something that wasn't absolutely necessary. As a customer I want them focused on offering me a better product or service. I don't want them spending a minute of time trying to figure out where they should come down on a current hot button issue.

As a card carrying member of the Mind Your Own Business Club, I am just burned out on the current culture of people and institutions having to give me their opinion on anything and everything. Whether it is the average Joe on Facebook or the NFL during the Super Bowl, everyone everywhere seems to be making it their mission to to "influence" me!!!

+1000

Me too. I've mentioned before that in my business, we didn't allow campaign signs on or in front of the places, employees to wear political clothing, or anything like that. Only a fool of a businessperson would do what some of these companies are doing. But maybe the CEOs are putting their own perceived job preservation ahead of the company's business. I would bet that many of the corporate CEOs are hearing from the political blackmail specialists. I don't know who that is exactly, it used to be the likes of Al Sharpton.

[pp4me]

Excellent but long article:

Origin of Covid - Following the Clues

"Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?"

This is a really informative article, and makes extremely persuasive arguments that virologists are doing the world a disservice, regardless of the particular origin of SARS-CoV2.

In section 4 of that article, titled "The US Role in Funding the Wuhan Institute of Virology", that author seems to be clearly on the side of Rand Paul's assertion yesterday that Fauci is lying about the NIH funding of gain of function research.

[Kriegsspiel]

But why must they pick a side on something that really has nothing to do with the product they are selling? I have never ever thought to myself "I wonder what my bank thinks about racial injustice" or "I really wish KFC would give me their thoughts on same sex marriage." Why must they come out and offer an opinion that really nobody asked them for and is not germane to their daily operations?

If I were a shareholder, I would want them to remain silent on any topics that do not impact them directly such as the scarcity of chicken or some such. I wouldn't want to lose any $$ by giving an opinion on something that wasn't absolutely necessary. As a customer I want them focused on offering me a better product or service. I don't want them spending a minute of time trying to figure out where they should come down on a current hot button issue.

As a card carrying member of the Mind Your Own Business Club, I am just burned out on the current culture of people and institutions having to give me their opinion on anything and everything. Whether it is the average Joe on Facebook or the NFL during the Super Bowl, everyone everywhere seems to be making it their mission to to "influence" me!!!

+1000

Me too. I've mentioned before that in my business, we didn't allow campaign signs on or in front of the places, employees to wear political clothing, or anything like that. Only a fool of a businessperson would do what some of these companies are doing. But maybe the CEOs are putting their own perceived job preservation ahead of the company's business. I would bet that many of the corporate CEOs are hearing from the political blackmail specialists. I don't know who that is exactly, it used to be the likes of Al Sharpton.

Tim Pool has shown many times how activists have been blackmailing companies by threatening to publish defamatory articles about them unless they [insert woke thing here]. I doubt there are enough activists to stage an effective boycott, but there still seem to be a lot of people who believe anything they see in the news.

[Kriegsspiel]

Insight Global, a staffing company based in Atlanta, Georgia, received a $23 million contract to hire 1,000 contact tracers in an effort to control the spread of COVID-19.

But some former employees tell Target 11 that the company failed to secure the information they collected from contacts. And the former workers say they told supervisors but nothing was done to protect the information.

Target 11 received links to spreadsheets containing names, along with health and personal information collected from contacts between September 2020 and March 2021.

Earle was easily able to click on the links and they revealed the information without using a login or password.

We are not releasing any of the names, but here’s some of the personal information contained on the spreadsheets.

“His wife was positive. She should have been in isolation. It sounds like neither are following protocol.”

“Four children in home … in full emotional support and ADHD diagnosis.”

“She’s on psych meds for depression. She says she is suicidal.”

“My initial evaluation showed that all of the links that you provided were online and accessible to the public without being able to or having to log in, and presenting any kind of authentication to a widely available to the public,” said Todd Hillis, who also discovered some of the same documents by doing a Google search.

“They are accessible and discoverable by a fairly crafty Google search,” said Hillis.

While the initial contract with Insight Global was for $23 million, Target 11 has learned from documents obtained through the State Treasurer that the company has now been paid $29 million since last September. link

Biden, of course, tapped the PA Health Dept. Seceratary for his administration.

[murphy_p_t]

"So to an extent, it does kind of seem to be a "corporate thing". Probably because corporations have deeper pockets, bigger targets painted on their backs, and bigger legal teams who get paid to worry about worst-case legal scenarios."

this is the secondary issue. The primary issue is that corporate boardrooms across America are populated by cultural marxists.

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....

It could be that corporations' boardrooms are populated by "cultural marxists"......

Or it could be that corporations are just following the money. IIRC a recent (Gallup?) poll showed that only 47% of American adults regularly attended church or religious services of any kind whereas 53% did not. This is the first time--ever--that a majority were in the "not" category. Another Gallup poll from 2018 showed upwards of 60% of Americans--including a majority of self-identified political independents--had favorable views of planned parenthood. Finally, a majority of Americans--especially Americans under 40 or 45--are in favor of gay rights, equality for gays, and legal gay marriage. As such, it makes sense that many corporations would promote liberal/left wing and secular values/lifestyles/causes...if the majority of people believe in that type oi thing then why wouldn't corporations at least act as though they were in favor of it? That's not some sinister evil globalist neoMarxist giant left-wing conspiracy; it's just basic capitalism 101. You want your potential customers to feel that you are "on their side" so as to get them to form a positive view of your company and its products.

Only if you don’t want the business of the other side. Which would be crazy.

It's really surprising this needs to be stated. In spite of any rationalizations to the contrary.

[murphy_p_t]

For example, they promote the homosex lifestyle, transgenderism, black lives matter, planned Parenthood....

Damn, not only are they trying to force the vaccine on me they are trying to make me homosexual too? And if I'm not homosexual, trying to get me to abort my babies? Is there an emoticon with completely white eyeballs because my eyes have rolled all the way back?

Straw man

[murphy_p_t]

A interesting study, apparently performed by MIT researchers, about COVID skeptics. Contains a link to the pdf so you can read it yourself but here is the first part.....

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1391 ... 77760.html

MIT researchers 'infiltrated' a Covid skeptics community a few months ago and found that skeptics place a high premium on data analysis and empiricism.

"Most fundamentally, the groups we studied believe that science is a process, and not an institution."

The scandal!

[jalanlong]

But why must they pick a side on something that really has nothing to do with the product they are selling? I have never ever thought to myself "I wonder what my bank thinks about racial injustice" or "I really wish KFC would give me their thoughts on same sex marriage." Why must they come out and offer an opinion that really nobody asked them for and is not germane to their daily operations?

If I were a shareholder, I would want them to remain silent on any topics that do not impact them directly such as the scarcity of chicken or some such. I wouldn't want to lose any $$ by giving an opinion on something that wasn't absolutely necessary. As a customer I want them focused on offering me a better product or service. I don't want them spending a minute of time trying to figure out where they should come down on a current hot button issue.

As a card carrying member of the Mind Your Own Business Club, I am just burned out on the current culture of people and institutions having to give me their opinion on anything and everything. Whether it is the average Joe on Facebook or the NFL during the Super Bowl, everyone everywhere seems to be making it their mission to to "influence" me!!!

+1000

Me too. I've mentioned before that in my business, we didn't allow campaign signs on or in front of the places, employees to wear political clothing, or anything like that. Only a fool of a businessperson would do what some of these companies are doing. But maybe the CEOs are putting their own perceived job preservation ahead of the company's business. I would bet that many of the corporate CEOs are hearing from the political blackmail specialists. I don't know who that is exactly, it used to be the likes of Al Sharpton.

https://www.today.com/food/mcdonald-s-e ... ed-t218032

[Xan]

https://www.today.com/food/mcdonald-s-e ... ed-t218032

I just don't understand the thinking behind this. Does anybody take health advice from (of all organizations) McDonald's? Does anybody think that people SHOULD get health advice from McDonald's?

Further, does anybody think that people on the fence about whether the vaccine is helpful or whether it's a grand conspiracy would be pushed AWAY from the grand conspiracy theory by McDonald's participating in a pro-vaccination campaign?

[WiseOne]

https://www.today.com/food/mcdonald-s-e ... ed-t218032

I just don't understand the thinking behind this. Does anybody take health advice from (of all organizations) McDonald's? Does anybody think that people SHOULD get health advice from McDonald's?

But you do get your health advice from the Washington Post?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree that a bunch of people who sell hamburgers are not qualified to render public health opinions, but then the same can be said of journalists.

My big question has been: why is it suddenly ok for the country to reopen when the COVID case & hospitalization rates are identical now to what those were a year ago (in NY), and the only thing that's happened in the interim is the annual winter respiratory illness runup which differed from the usual only due to the added availability of a super-sensitive COVID test (and a new endemic virus). In other words, the pandemic was only a 2 month episode in each US location (NY led the way) and what we've had since is what we are going to have permanently: endemic COVID added to the assortment of respiratory viruses that already exist.

If you think the move toward reopening is because of the vaccine, note that a) the effectiveness of the vaccine at controlling community infections has yet to be proven, and b) the officially proclaimed target # of vaccinated Americans (70-90% of the population depending on what mood Fauci is in) is far from realized.

Of course I think that vaccinating the most vulnerable makes perfect sense, and as this has already been accomplished for whoever in that group wants to be vaccinated it could easily justify reopening now. But, that has never been articulated as an independent goal by any of the powers that be. Maybe this unspoken sentiment is what's behind the collective decision to reopen. I must say I'm surprised, because I thought that the collective decision hinged on the belief that COVID has not become endemic, that ongoing lockdowns and/or full herd immunity are the only way to prevent that, and that complete eradication of COVID is the only acceptable goal.

[Tortoise]

Gov. DeSantis keeps hitting home runs:

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis to pardon anyone charged for defying COVID rules

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis will pardon anyone in the Sunshine State charged for not wearing masks or socially distancing — breaking the news live on air to a gym-owning couple who were facing jail time for defying coronavirus safety recommendations.

The Republican governor made the unexpected announcement on Fox News Wednesday as he decried county officials penalizing people.

“It’s a total overreach,” he told Laura Ingraham. “These things with health should be advisory, they should not be punitive.”

[...]

DeSantis said potential jail time was particularly absurd in the Carnevales’ case.

“The fact is, it’s not even right to be wearing masks when you’re exercising,” the governor said.

“The World Health Organization advises against it! It’s not healthy to be doing that in the first place, so it was a bad restriction,” he said.

“I think they’ve been treated poorly, but fortunately they’ve got a governor that cares,” he said.

[jalanlong]

https://www.today.com/food/mcdonald-s-e ... ed-t218032

I just don't understand the thinking behind this. Does anybody take health advice from (of all organizations) McDonald's? Does anybody think that people SHOULD get health advice from McDonald's?

But you do get your health advice from the Washington Post?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree that a bunch of people who sell hamburgers are not qualified to render public health opinions, but then the same can be said of journalists.

My big question has been: why is it suddenly ok for the country to reopen when the COVID case & hospitalization rates are identical now to what those were a year ago (in NY), and the only thing that's happened in the interim is the annual winter respiratory illness runup which differed from the usual only due to the added availability of a super-sensitive COVID test (and a new endemic virus). In other words, the pandemic was only a 2 month episode in each US location (NY led the way) and what we've had since is what we are going to have permanently: endemic COVID added to the assortment of respiratory viruses that already exist.

If you think the move toward reopening is because of the vaccine, note that a) the effectiveness of the vaccine at controlling community infections has yet to be proven, and b) the officially proclaimed target # of vaccinated Americans (70-90% of the population depending on what mood Fauci is in) is far from realized.

Of course I think that vaccinating the most vulnerable makes perfect sense, and as this has already been accomplished for whoever in that group wants to be vaccinated it could easily justify reopening now. But, that has never been articulated as an independent goal by any of the powers that be. Maybe this unspoken sentiment is what's behind the collective decision to reopen. I must say I'm surprised, because I thought that the collective decision hinged on the belief that COVID has not become endemic, that ongoing lockdowns and/or full herd immunity are the only way to prevent that, and that complete eradication of COVID is the only acceptable goal.

I agree with you that there will certainly be a resurgence in the fall/winter. The question is during the next 5 months, will society and the media have moved on enough not to care? By that time will testing of healthy people be a thing of the past so that the only Covid cases are people actually in the hospital? That wouldn’t give the press scary enough numbers to pay attention.

[Xan]

I agree with you that there will certainly be a resurgence in the fall/winter. The question is during the next 5 months, will society and the media have moved on enough not to care? By that time will testing of healthy people be a thing of the past so that the only Covid cases are people actually in the hospital? That wouldn’t give the press scary enough numbers to pay attention.

The annual "the hospitals are filling up with flu patients" articles will probably be much more dire.

[jalanlong]

I agree with you that there will certainly be a resurgence in the fall/winter. The question is during the next 5 months, will society and the media have moved on enough not to care? By that time will testing of healthy people be a thing of the past so that the only Covid cases are people actually in the hospital? That wouldn’t give the press scary enough numbers to pay attention.

The annual "the hospitals are filling up with flu patients" articles will probably be much more dire.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/13/cdc-say ... tings.html

So are we now just fast-forwarding to the end of this movie?

[jalanlong]

https://www.today.com/food/mcdonald-s-e ... ed-t218032

I just don't understand the thinking behind this. Does anybody take health advice from (of all organizations) McDonald's? Does anybody think that people SHOULD get health advice from McDonald's?

Further, does anybody think that people on the fence about whether the vaccine is helpful or whether it's a grand conspiracy would be pushed AWAY from the grand conspiracy theory by McDonald's participating in a pro-vaccination campaign?

I think its the "death by a thousand paper cuts" style of influencing. Singularly nobody listens to McDonalds. But it probably works on a lot of people if they are getting deluged from every angle imaginable. Corporations are offering you donuts, baseball tickets or (in the case of Ohio) tickets to a million dollar lottery. Your friends and neighbors on social media are posting that they got the jab. Celebrities are shilling for it. The local sports radio station in my town plays "public service announcements" every hour about getting the vaccine and one of the hosts this AM said it was patriotic to get it. It's almost a fear of missing out sort of strategy. Don't be the one that holds us back from going to visit grandma. Do your duty!!

I am not an anti-vaxxer and I don't care if someone gets the vaccine or not. But the level of advertising for this product has crossed way over the line into propaganda for me.

[Mark Leavy]

Interesting development this evening.

I'm currently in SoCal, Palm Desert.

Biden tweeted today "The rule is now simple: get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do."

The place where I had dinner this evening interpreted this as the servers no longer need to wear masks.

The place was packed, cheek to jowl. Not a mask in sight. Not on the customers or on any of the staff.

In California.

[jalanlong]

Interesting development this evening.

I'm currently in SoCal, Palm Desert.

Biden tweeted today "The rule is now simple: get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do."

The place where I had dinner this evening interpreted this as the servers no longer need to wear masks.

The place was packed, cheek to jowl. Not a mask in sight. Not on the customers or on any of the staff.

In California.

That is an interesting interpretation. I didn’t understand the tweet at all really. Is every place supposed to vet the vaxxed from the unvaxxed? Or are we all on the honor system here?

[jalanlong]

Interesting development this evening.

I'm currently in SoCal, Palm Desert.

Biden tweeted today "The rule is now simple: get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do."

The place where I had dinner this evening interpreted this as the servers no longer need to wear masks.

The place was packed, cheek to jowl. Not a mask in sight. Not on the customers or on any of the staff.

In California.

Apparently we are interpreting it that way here as well!

https://www.fox4news.com/sports/frisco- ... s-released

[Tortoise]

Biden tweeted today "The rule is now simple: get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do."

I didn’t understand the tweet at all really. Is every place supposed to vet the vaxxed from the unvaxxed? Or are we all on the honor system here?

No honor system is needed, is because everyone who chose not to get vaxxed has been killed off by the deadly SARS-CoV-2 virus. Nature sorted it out for us.

[Mark Leavy]

No honor system is needed, is because everyone who chose not to get vaxxed has been killed off by the deadly SARS-CoV-2 virus. Nature sorted it out for us.

It turned me into a newt.

[Xan]

No honor system is needed, is because everyone who chose not to get vaxxed has been killed off by the deadly SARS-CoV-2 virus. Nature sorted it out for us.

It turned me into a newt.

A newt?

[Mark Leavy]

A newt?

I got better.

[Kriegsspiel]

That is an interesting interpretation. I didn’t understand the tweet at all really. Is every place supposed to vet the vaxxed from the unvaxxed? Or are we all on the honor system here?

Apparently, yes. I think this is a good opportunity for workplaces to effectively go mask-free, as long as supervisors don't get gung-ho about trying to violate people's medical privacy.