Coronavirus General Discussion

[WiseOne]

I've been wondering what to think about "long COVID", but this pretty much settles it in my view:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/17/heal ... -166055661

It's basically a somatization disorder reflecting extreme fear of COVID, induced by a combination of the mass media and Fauci's stance that COVID is so scary that the only acceptable end game is zero new cases and complete obliteration of the virus. Of course these people feel better after being vaccinated!!! Geez.

It is notable that there are many known post viral syndromes, like post-polio, and NONE of them have ever been shown to improve with vaccination. And, how the heck would introducing spike proteins from a virus you've already had do anything at all??? Presumably the mechanism of long COVID would be an autoimmune response to the virus, in which case you would expect that the vaccine would make things worse if anything. Right??

This is different from a long recovery time btw...which is not unknown for lots of viral illnesses. e.g. takes your lungs a while to get back to normal. Used to happen to me every year when I got my mandatory cold & bronchitis/sinusities, I wouldn't be back to normal for a good 2 months. I'm prepared to believe that some people would need a longer period to recover from COVID, but that's not what "long COVID" is billed as.

[yankees60]

Something to keep in mind...

Vinny

SCIENCE
Don’t Be Surprised When Vaccinated People Get Infected
Post-immunization cases, sometimes called “breakthroughs,” are very rare and very expected.

KATHERINE J. WU
7:04 AM ET


https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... es/618330/

[Kriegsspiel]

As I've said before, coronavirus will end when the bravest among us refuse to wear masks and summon the courage to laugh and ridicule those that do.

Before coronavirus there was a large segment of the population that would have preferred to wear a mask but were afraid of ridicule. They need to return to that place from whence they came.

Funny story relating to this. My brother and his girlfriend, who are moving to FL to escape CA politics, were on a return flight from FL back to CA recently and struck up a conversation with a marine sitting in front of them.

Every time my brother tried talking to him while wearing his mask, the marine would interrupt and say, "Don't talk to me with that piece of shit on your face!"

That's some bravery alright.
On the other hand, maybe the Marine was just an asshole, and proudly exercising his right to be one.

Sounds like improper conduct to me if he was in uniform.

[yankees60]

A business in Texas!

Vinny


Texas Restaurant Owner Makes Waves With Sign Charging $75 for Mask Violations
BY MEGHAN ROOS ON 3/19/21 AT 3:26 PM EDT

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-restaura ... ns-1577489

[dualstow]

Tickle in my throat yesterday, discomfort in chest today. This could easily be just a normal 'under the weather' infection. I did spend several hours outside in the cold a few days ago, so maybe I don't even have that.

But, I'm supposed to fly in a week. This is not good timing. Not only do I not want to infect anyone, but also if I were heartless and showed up at the airport, there's a fair chance I won't pass the temperature laser to the forehead.

Probably should have paid to protect my flight when I booked. Maybe I still can.

[I Shrugged]

Last night at a restaurant dinner with a couple of friends and wives, I made the comment, "This is not political, but I am just tired of wearing masks. Fogging glasses blah blah blah." They looked at me as if I had farted. Would not even engage the conversation. It made me feel like the skunk at the garden party.

The two guys are what I would call moderate republicans. I don't even know if they agree with me but are terrified to say so, or they think I'm an insurrectionist. I guess I'm not the first one who can no longer feel comfortable with his/her own friends. It's fine if they do disagree, although that would mean their positions are, "No, I like wearing masks." Which seems doubtful. But to not be able to discuss it, yikes.

[Kriegsspiel]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

[Kriegsspiel]

Or maybe you're at that age where you actually farted and didn't notice.

[SomeDude]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

[I Shrugged]

Last night at a restaurant dinner with a couple of friends and wives, I made the comment, "This is not political, but I am just tired of wearing masks. Fogging glasses blah blah blah." They looked at me as if I had farted. Would not even engage the conversation. It made me feel like the skunk at the garden party.

The two guys are what I would call moderate republicans. I don't even know if they agree with me but are terrified to say so, or they think I'm an insurrectionist. I guess I'm not the first one who can no longer feel comfortable with his/her own friends. It's fine if they do disagree, although that would mean their positions are, "No, I like wearing masks." Which seems doubtful. But to not be able to discuss it, yikes.

IS, at your age, you should not give a shit what other people think. I know better than to get into political discussions with friends and patients who have different views than I do but, if pressed, I will speak my mind. If they don't want to hang out with me any more because of it, their loss.

On one hand I agree, but these are two of my oldest friends, from childhood until now. One was my best man. I'm still taken aback by the way it went.

[I Shrugged]

Or maybe you're at that age where you actually farted and didn't notice.

Probably would have been more fun if I had.

[Tortoise]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

That would be my guess.

[mathjak107]

I said to my wife since we have all these masks , why not spice things up in the bedroom ... I said I can put the mask on , who should I be ...she said ANYONE BUT YOU IS FINE ...


Hmmmmmmm. Lol

[dualstow]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

Since this is not the first time you suggested that, I gotta ask and put wild assumptions to rest: are you talking about teasing friends or confronting strangers in the street the way mask nazis confront people in stores?

If it's the latter,
I can see advocating online or even protesting in one spot, "Change the policy. We shouldn't have to wear masks!" But confronting people for complying with state law seems bold to say the least.

[jalanlong]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

That is ultimately the issue. Pro-maskers have gotten the upper hand and it seems like society has decided that its better to err on the side of safety (ie masks) than risk any possible transmission of germs. If you don't wear a mask you are (pick one): anti-science, selfish, Trumpian, conspiracy theorist etc. I don’t know how to get that reversed. Making fun of people wearing masks in their cars while driving alone has been going on for a year and people are still doing it. Like other laws, when people feel like virtue is on their side, they will not change their mind easily.

[SomeDude]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

Since this is not the first time you suggested that, I gotta ask and put wild assumptions to rest: are you talking about teasing friends or confronting strangers in the street the way mask nazis confront people in stores?

If it's the latter,
I can see advocating online or even protesting in one spot, "Change the policy. We shouldn't have to wear masks!" But confronting people for complying with state law seems bold to say the least.

Ehhhh.....confront strangers at your own risk. But def ridicule friends and family who can take it. For those that can't, at least raise an eyebrow.

The masks will come off when it's considered weird to wear one.

And then coronvirus will be over.

[SomeDude]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

That is ultimately the issue. Pro-maskers have gotten the upper hand and it seems like society has decided that its better to err on the side of safety (ie masks) than risk any possible transmission of germs. If you don't wear a mask you are (pick one): anti-science, selfish, Trumpian, conspiracy theorist etc. I don’t know how to get that reversed. Making fun of people wearing masks in their cars while driving alone has been going on for a year and people are still doing it. Like other laws, when people feel like virtue is on their side, they will not change their mind easily.

Yeah, jimmy kimmel and Trevor Noah are telling people masks are cool so it's gonna be tough.

[dualstow]

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

Since this is not the first time you suggested that, I gotta ask and put wild assumptions to rest: are you talking about teasing friends or confronting strangers in the street the way mask nazis confront people in stores?
...

Ehhhh.....confront strangers at your own risk. But def ridicule friends and family who can take it. For those that can't, at least raise an eyebrow.
...

Seems fair.

[jalanlong]

Maybe their wives are mask-people and they didn't want to get into it with them there.

We have to start making fun of mask people or at least looking at them like they're weird.

That is ultimately the issue. Pro-maskers have gotten the upper hand and it seems like society has decided that its better to err on the side of safety (ie masks) than risk any possible transmission of germs. If you don't wear a mask you are (pick one): anti-science, selfish, Trumpian, conspiracy theorist etc. I don’t know how to get that reversed. Making fun of people wearing masks in their cars while driving alone has been going on for a year and people are still doing it. Like other laws, when people feel like virtue is on their side, they will not change their mind easily.

Yeah, jimmy kimmel and Trevor Noah are telling people masks are cool so it's gonna be tough.

The one thing that gives me hope is look how quickly opinions changed on virtual learning. A year ago sending your kid to school during Covid was a sign you wanted them to die. Late last year the narrative completely changed to keeping them isolated at home is much more dangerous long term then sending them to school. Only a few holdouts (mostly in LA) still don’t want in-person learning now. Maybe that can happen with masks.

[Tortoise]

When I walked into the store yesterday, the guy in front of me had a bandana tied around his neck, but it wasn’t covering his face.

A store employee who was greeting customers as they entered reminded the guy that masks were required, so the guy said, “Oh, sorry” and pulled the bandana up over his face.

Although I don’t know for sure, I got the sense that the guy was “testing” the store to see if they’d bother him for not wearing a mask.

My prediction is that the “mask required” signs outside most stores will remain longer than most customers continue to comply with them. They will eventually be increasingly ignored until they are largely obsolete. Then they will quietly be taken down without much fanfare.

[whatchamacallit]

The hardest thing to flip for masks in stores is going to be allowing the employees to not wear masks.

Hopefully eventually it is acceptable to not wear a mask if you are vaccinated. Then everyone can just stop wearing a mask. No way to prove someone hasn't been vaccinated with HIPAA laws hopefully.

Edit: on that note, if I was in retail I probably would wear a mask forever and dark glasses to protect my eyes from droplets.

[Mark Leavy]

In Florida all of the national chain stores are still requiring the employees to mask up. But they aren’t strict. Masks below the nose or pulled down to talk. No requirement for customers to mask up. Whatever. It is the independent merchants that are doing away with masks altogether. The place I’m at tonight doesn’t have a mask in sight. Bartenders, customers, live music.

[jalanlong]

When I walked into the store yesterday, the guy in front of me had a bandana tied around his neck, but it wasn’t covering his face.

A store employee who was greeting customers as they entered reminded the guy that masks were required, so the guy said, “Oh, sorry” and pulled the bandana up over his face.

Although I don’t know for sure, I got the sense that the guy was “testing” the store to see if they’d bother him for not wearing a mask.

My prediction is that the “mask required” signs outside most stores will remain longer than most customers continue to comply with them. They will eventually be increasingly ignored until they are largely obsolete. Then they will quietly be taken down without much fanfare.

So you think at a certain point the signs will be up but employees will stop enforcing it?

I know some store managers here who claim they would like to not enforce it but if a District Manager or someone from Corporate comes in and catches them not complying then they will be fired on the spot.

[Mark Leavy]

...
So you think at a certain point the signs will be up but employees will stop enforcing it?

I know some store managers here who claim they would like to not enforce it but if a District Manager or someone from Corporate comes in and catches them not complying then they will be fired on the spot.

I don't know if Florida is a leading indicator or not, but places like Whole Foods, etc. still have mask required signs up, but I just ignore them and don't get any pushback. I would say maybe 5 to 10% of the customers aren't masked in Whole Foods.

[Kbg]

Logically, if you are a business owner I would think there are three main factors.

Legal liability...and you know there are lawyers out there looking to pin a covid libability case on a business owner for not having work policies that follow state and federal guidance. So I would say that one is a complete no-brainer. Follow the guidance to reduce your liability and if you can pin it on an employee not following policy, fire them and point to your written policy.

The other is the predominant politics of where your business is located which probably comes with an associated opinion about the whole mask thing. If you have a business in a liberal state then it's likely the majority of your clientele are pro mask and vice versa.

Finally, if you are in a business related to "health" then you are probably going to go with consensus on what is considered healthy.

Given the above, I think it is entirely rationale that large national chains are going to stay masked up until the lawyers say it's "financially safe" again and it is likely smaller businesses are going to go with the local dynamic.

Thoughts/counter-points?