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[Cortopassi]

Too many people feel they are not being heard and supported by their government. They come from different perspectives and express it in different ways, but that's what is at the root of all of this.

Also... the guy in the last photo is dressed in all black, with a black backpack and a helmet. How many Trump supporters dress like that? Not saying it's impossible, but it's also possible that not everything is what it seems.

First line, agreed. Both for Trump/blue collar workers who feel left out, and to the BLM supporters who also feel left out and abused.

Second line -- I really don't care if in the end it was simply a small radical group, whether Antifa, BLM, Proud Boys, whatever that started the storming of the Capitol. Trump called for the rally. No rally, no storming. This one seems pretty black and white to me.

Certainly there may have been some supporters there because of what was going on inside even without a call for a rally, but Trumps' call for a rally and his speech poured gasoline on a small, smoldering fire that likely would have remained peaceful.

And Maddy, yes, of course they are all hypocrites. January 21st, for example, the debt will yet again become important to Republicans.

--------------
And here, unfortunately for Trump supporters, is the new poster boy of a typical supporter. Not good. As bad, if not worse, if you ask me, as pictures of looters walking out of stores this past summer carrying TVs.

[flyingpylon]

Too many people feel they are not being heard and supported by their government. They come from different perspectives and express it in different ways, but that's what is at the root of all of this.

Also... the guy in the last photo is dressed in all black, with a black backpack and a helmet. How many Trump supporters dress like that? Not saying it's impossible, but it's also possible that not everything is what it seems.

First line, agreed. Both for Trump/blue collar workers who feel left out, and to the BLM supporters who also feel left out and abused.

To clarify, by "different perspectives" I did mean to include BLM and any other groups, so we agree.

Second line -- I really don't care if in the end it was simply a small radical group, whether Antifa, BLM, Proud Boys, whatever that started the storming of the Capitol. Trump called for the rally. No rally, no storming. This one seems pretty black and white to me.

Certainly there may have been some supporters there because of what was going on inside even without a call for a rally, but Trumps' call for a rally and his speech poured gasoline on a small, smoldering fire that likely would have remained peaceful.

One could go back from that and say "no _____, no rally". Who should be "allowed" to call a rally at the Capitol? And who should decide?

It was clearly Trump's words -- quoted in Corto's post-- that drew this mob. However, I think they're going to cause trouble this year after Trump is out of office.

Perhaps a sleeping giant has been awakened, or perhaps not, we'll see. Do you think we'll see politicians offering to take a knee and seek to understand them?

[sophie]

It was clearly Trump's words -- quoted in Corto's post-- that drew this mob. However, I think they're going to cause trouble this year after Trump is out of office.

Well, then what about Kamala Harris' words, egging on violent BLM actions? Why wasn't she called to account for that?

The double standard is pretty clear. I personally condemn both sets of actions equally. Though the protest was perfectly justified except for the part about breaking into the building, given the election irregularities being dismissed (not "debunked" as claimed; I think "dismissed" is a much better descripton).

[glennds]

Of course breaking into the Capitol building and committing any kind of violence is unacceptable.

But the easy and intellectually lazy response is "it's all Trump's fault". As often happens with these fast-moving events, it will take time to discover and understand all of the details and sort through the competing narratives.

It is indeed and I wouldn't support it for a second.

However, I find it interesting that the media widely condemned the protester's actions, even going so far as to say that it "threatened the Republic" whatever that means, after spending several months condoning much worse violence by BLM.

Which is the most telling aspect of all this. For the entire summer, the darlings of the "progressive" Left set entire cities on fire, and were were told that what was needed was a "national conversation."

What a pathetic pile of hypocrites.

What do you feel would be an appropriate characterization of and response to what happened at the Capitol yesterday?

[Cortopassi]

One could go back from that and say "no _____, no rally". Who should be "allowed" to call a rally at the Capitol? And who should decide?

Of course he, or anyone has the right to call for a rally / protest.

But, that person should be majorly responsible for what happens at the rally, especially if it gets out of hand. More so if you are the president and you've spent the last two months continuing to stoke anger and hatred for the system that "stole" the election from him, even after having gone through, and failing, all normal legal methods.

At a minimum, the minute the first people broke through barriers he should have been on TV imploring them to stand down. He didn't. And when he finally came out with that video, it continued to be more about being a fraudulent election.

Good riddance. I don't know how Hillary would have been comparatively, but I regret my vote in 2016. I would fully support tossing him out early with the 25th amendment like is being discussed, even with only 13 days left, just for the symbolism.
---------------
sophie, I don't know much about it, but from what I've read, Harris' comments were about protests, not violence:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 03710.html

"The Trump campaign is promoting videos that have been manipulated to show Kamala Harris laughing and appearing sympathetic to violent protests as images of rioting flash in the background.

Harris, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, did not laugh at protesters. The laughter in the video was taken from a 21-month-old appearance on “Late Show with Stephen Colbert” that had nothing to do with protesting.

Nor did she try to justify violent demonstrations. The quotes used in the video, from a June Colbert show, were referring to the value of peaceful protests."

[dualstow]

It was clearly Trump's words -- quoted in Corto's post-- that drew this mob. However, I think they're going to cause trouble this year after Trump is out of office.

Well, then what about Kamala Harris' words, egging on violent BLM actions? Why wasn't she called to account for that?

...

She should be.

It was clearly Trump's words -- quoted in Corto's post-- that drew this mob. However, I think they're going to cause trouble this year after Trump is out of office.

Perhaps a sleeping giant has been awakened, or perhaps not, we'll see. Do you think we'll see politicians offering to take a knee and seek to understand them?

Ha, no.

[Xan]

I would fully support tossing him out early with the 25th amendment like is being discussed, even with only 13 days left, just for the symbolism.

Me too.

[dualstow]

I think a lot of us would.
Dying to know what's on Libertarian666's mind right now. Lindsey Graham is done. Bill Barr is done.

[Tortoise]

If you can view this you can see that if the police had used 1/100 the amount of force they'd routinely use against certain other protestors.....this crowd would have easily backed right down.

Hard to believe if all the protestors were black they would have been treated with such deference and kid gloves and zero aggression towards them.

Do you think it’s a skin color thing or do you think the police support Trump after being demonized by Democrats for the entire year.

Indeed. When I watch video of the Capitol police standing down and only weakly pushing back against the protesters, it seems to me that there are only two possible explanations that make sense:

a) The storming of the building was a staged event to generate such outrage at Trump and his supporters that Congress would be even less likely to vote in favor of any objections raised during the electoral vote counting. (Yeah, yeah... conspiracy theory. Unlikely.)

b) The Capitol police were at least somewhat sympathetic to the anger of the protesters who were storming the building. (Much more likely.)

[flyingpylon]

One of the parties responsible for the security failure is Muriel Bowser.

DC Mayor Told Federal Law Enforcement To Stand Down Day Before Violent US Capitol Riot

Also, from The Consequences Of The Capitol Assault

The obvious result of yesterday’s conflagration will be a feeble attempt at a purge by the Mitt Romneys, Liz Cheneys, and Adam Kinzingers (ha!) of the GOP. This will fail because their constituency is not just outnumbered, it is utterly dominated by the populist iconoclasts. A party of the right that rejects the mob of people who spent their hard-earned, working-class money to drive to Washington, D.C., and wave a flag as deplorables will never win, or deserve to, any more than a party of the left could reject naming something Black Lives Matter plaza.

What will happen next is obvious: A total crushing, anti-free speech effort that treats Trump-supporting groups like Branch Davidians. An effort to restore the fundamentally unserious neocons as the voice of reason in the room. A hardening of the bounds of the People’s House to keep people away from politicians. A use of any levers of government power — including audits, regulation, and lawfare — to harass conservatives now categorized as seditionists and terrorists by the incoming president who falsely claims to want to unite the country. And above all, a doubling down on all the policies and efforts put in place to crush exactly the type of people who showed up at the Capitol yesterday in a foolish, desperate attempt to make themselves heard.

The rioters failed in their effort and ensured their marginalization. But marginalization doesn’t mean evaporation. They’re still here. They’re still Americans. And they’re not going away. How our politicians handle that will dictate a lot about the next several years.

And this article written in September seems prescient: The Coming Coup?

The events of the last few months may be interpreted as an attempted color revolution that failed to gain enough steam, or as a trial run for the fall. Is the Trump Administration prepared? ... Once the ruling class gives word that the narrative is “Trump lost,” all the president’s social media accounts will be suspended. The T.V. channels, with the likely exception of Fox News, will refuse to cover anything he says. Count on it.

Apparently Facebook has already suspended Trump's account indefinitely, and YouTube is banning any videos from anyone that suggests there was fraud or errors that would have overturned the election.

[barrett]

Indeed. When I watch video of the Capitol police standing down and only weakly pushing back against the protesters, it seems to me that there are only two possible explanations that make sense:

a) The storming of the building was a staged event to generate such outrage at Trump and his supporters that Congress would be even less likely to vote in favor of any objections raised during the electoral vote counting. (Yeah, yeah... conspiracy theory. Unlikely.)

b) The Capitol police were at least somewhat sympathetic to the anger of the protesters who were storming the building. (Much more likely.)

c) In the video I saw last night it looked like the police were just totally undermanned in terms of being able to repel that many people pushing forward.

[Tortoise]

Indeed. When I watch video of the Capitol police standing down and only weakly pushing back against the protesters, it seems to me that there are only two possible explanations that make sense:

a) The storming of the building was a staged event to generate such outrage at Trump and his supporters that Congress would be even less likely to vote in favor of any objections raised during the electoral vote counting. (Yeah, yeah... conspiracy theory. Unlikely.)

b) The Capitol police were at least somewhat sympathetic to the anger of the protesters who were storming the building. (Much more likely.)

c) In the video I saw last night it looked like the police were just totally undermanned in terms of being able to repel that many people pushing forward.

And why would that be, if everyone with a few functional brain cells knew there was going to be tremendous outrage from one side or the other on Jan 6th regardless of how Pence and Congress decided to handle the electoral votes?

[doodle]

Indeed. When I watch video of the Capitol police standing down and only weakly pushing back against the protesters, it seems to me that there are only two possible explanations that make sense:

a) The storming of the building was a staged event to generate such outrage at Trump and his supporters that Congress would be even less likely to vote in favor of any objections raised during the electoral vote counting. (Yeah, yeah... conspiracy theory. Unlikely.)

b) The Capitol police were at least somewhat sympathetic to the anger of the protesters who were storming the building. (Much more likely.)

c) In the video I saw last night it looked like the police were just totally undermanned in terms of being able to repel that many people pushing forward.

And why would that be, if everyone with a few functional brain cells knew there was going to be tremendous outrage from one side or the other on Jan 6th regardless of how Pence and Congress decided to handle the electoral votes?

Soros and the globalist cabal? What are you driving at? That is was a leftist conspiracy because it reflected so poorly on the political right and Trump?

[Xan]

Indeed. When I watch video of the Capitol police standing down and only weakly pushing back against the protesters, it seems to me that there are only two possible explanations that make sense:

a) The storming of the building was a staged event to generate such outrage at Trump and his supporters that Congress would be even less likely to vote in favor of any objections raised during the electoral vote counting. (Yeah, yeah... conspiracy theory. Unlikely.)

b) The Capitol police were at least somewhat sympathetic to the anger of the protesters who were storming the building. (Much more likely.)

c) In the video I saw last night it looked like the police were just totally undermanned in terms of being able to repel that many people pushing forward.

And why would that be, if everyone with a few functional brain cells knew there was going to be tremendous outrage from one side or the other on Jan 6th regardless of how Pence and Congress decided to handle the electoral votes?

Soros and the globalist cabal? What are you driving at? That is was a leftist conspiracy because it reflected so poorly on the political right and Trump?

No, he's saying that ISN'T what happened.

[Maddy]

We don't yet know who all of the "stormers" were. There's credible evidence that many of them were left-wing activists, masquerading as Trump supporters, who were escorted in, protected by Capitol police. The guy in Viking horns has been outed, and the rest are likely to be identified in the coming days.

How do I feel about the storming of the capital building? Frankly, it's hard for me to get exercised about it. it's a freaking drop in the bucket compared to the night-after-night occupation and destruction of entire cities that we've witnessed from Antifa and BLM for much of the last year. In a crowd of. . . what. . . over a million?. . . I'd say that the Trump supporters showed amazing restraint.

Those prepared speeches that went on and on about the horrendousness of it all were sickening. These were the very same people who egged on the senseless destruction of our cities and who ordered the standdown of police while people were being pummeled to a pulp, while wives and children were being terrorized in their homes, and while and ordinary peoples' businesses were going up in flames. And who turned a blind eye to the violence while blaming "systemic injustice" for it all.

While those phonies were being whisked away into tunnels with the best security taxpayer money could buy, I wonder whether they considered--for even a minute--what life has been like for the people whose neighborhoods were victimized by their minions for months on end.

Damn I hope those criminal psychopaths all go away in handcuffs.

[Mountaineer]

And Schummer calling for impeachment or 25th - what the hell is up with that? Way to go Chuckie, pour more gas on the fire to unite us? DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure political theater. We are doomed.

In fact I believe our deteriorating secular condition stems from thinking we are in charge and turning our backs on God. He is not taking shots at us, but perhaps has removed his protective hand, as I think he did several times in the old testament, and has said to us, "you want to be in charge, so please, go ahead and see how it works out". As in the past, it's not going so well.

[SomeDude]

I don't care if they were Antifa or Trump supporters quite frankly. I'm sure there was a mix of both. Without Antifa there, there's probably no chance of any break in. If the police hadn't deliberately let them in, there wouldn't have been a break in.

You have to be some kind of stupid to think the police couldn't stop this group from getting in. You're telling me there is more security at a football game than at the capital when all the senators and whatnot are in there?

lol.....staged. Staged for their narrative and crackdown on patriots. Apparently some people are falling for it.

The best Americans were there, they traveled from across the country to protest a stolen election. They were stabbed in the back the politicians they thought were on their side. The entire country was stabbed in the back and now handed over to a vile group of criminals and their boot-licking controlled opposition.

I'm with you Maddy. I saw one my state senators Rubio grandstand last night, saying pretty much everyone he knows thinks the election was fraudulent, and that he knows it was unconstitutional. But.......none of that matters. The police shot an unarmed woman dead, a vet, Ashli Babbitt, a veteran, patriot, and now martyr. They shot her dead and that's Trump's fault so we must kneel before Biden.

Republican politicians are the worst kind of scum. I suggest anyone inclined to vote for the lesser of two evils to please stop. They aren't the lesser. If there's going to be any kind of rescue of the country from the communists it will have to come from real opposition. We can't waste time and energy on these traitors like Pence, and McConnel and Rubio.

R.I.P. Ashli

I congratulate the "mostly peaceful" protestors. That's a CNN term. I wish I could have been there.

Where do we go from here? I think Trump's next move will dictate a lot that. He still has the momentum to lead a movement of patriots, he might even have a lot more momentum, despite what the shills on TV are saying.

Or he might stab us in the back too. He's given more than anyone could ask of anyone already, maybe he's tired. I hope he doesn't quit.


*** @ Mountaineer - Yes it looks like God has turned his favor from us. I had renewed hope when he spared us from Hillary, but we've done nothing in those 4 years to keep it. The genocide of the unborn continues, and we gave up worship this year and in some places celebrating Christ's birth because the flu. We don't deserve his favor, and now the real pain begins.

[Tortoise]

And why would that be, if everyone with a few functional brain cells knew there was going to be tremendous outrage from one side or the other on Jan 6th regardless of how Pence and Congress decided to handle the electoral votes?

Soros and the globalist cabal? What are you driving at? That is was a leftist conspiracy because it reflected so poorly on the political right and Trump?

No, as I said in my post before that one, I think a conspiracy to stage the storming is unlikely. Tempting to consider, but unlikely. Too elaborate and probably unnecessary.

Someone in the Capitol police's chain of command apparently lacks a few functioning brain cells. Everyone should have seen a big confrontation on Jan 6th coming from a mile away, regardless of how the electoral votes would be counted. If the count had gone in the other direction, it probably would have been the woke mob breaking into the Capitol (or at least trying).

...when you look into the Viking horn dude, he seems like the reason he was at the BLM riots was that he was a counter-rioter. I saw an interview he did with the news where he claims to support Trump, done earlier this year.

Yes, I saw the same footage. Viking dude does seem to be an actual Trump supporter based on his statements made earlier last year.

In fact I believe our deteriorating secular condition stems from thinking we are in charge and turning our backs on God. He is not taking shots at us, but perhaps has removed his protective hand, as I think he did several times in the old testament, and has said to us, "you want to be in charge, so please, go ahead and see how it works out". As in the past, it's not going so well.

+1

[Cortopassi]

I have no doubt others were there. If there were some BLM/Antifa supporters there who incite violence against conservatives, hell yes, I understand why they'd want to be at this rally. A small number of assholes ruin it for everyone, both sides.

I also have no doubt that the majority of Trump supporters would not have entered the Capitol. Just like the majority of protesters this summer would not have looted and started stuff on fire.

But the fact is, the Capitol was stormed. A lady was killed. Three others died.

Staged Antifa attack? Holy shit, conspiracies start getting written before the riot is even over.

It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.

Let's hope for 4 years of not talking much about politics.

[SomeDude]

It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.

Let's hope for 4 years of not talking much about politics.

FWIW I think you're right on the first five sentences here Cort. We'll see. We are in clown world, but I think you're right.

On the last line...............not a chance in the US, er, I mean Hell lol.

[Tortoise]

Let's hope for 4 years of not talking much about politics.

LOL! You're all right, Corto. I really needed that laugh.

[D1984]

In fact I believe our deteriorating secular condition stems from thinking we are in charge and turning our backs on God. He is not taking shots at us, but perhaps has removed his protective hand, as I think he did several times in the old testament, and has said to us, "you want to be in charge, so please, go ahead and see how it works out". As in the past, it's not going so well.

+1

Perhaps I should've replied to Mountaineer--seeing as how the original post was his--but how could you (or Mountaineer or Somedude, should either of them wish to reply to this as well) believe this? If by "deteriorating condition" you mean severe political polarization and the willingness of people to do things like violently storm the national legislature in an attempt to halt the results of an election then ask yourselves this (to me) seemingly blindingly obvious question: Why do otherwise-similar-to-the-US but much more atheistic/secular nations that are also First World countries (i.e. places like the Benelux countries, all of Scandinavia, the Baltic countries, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Czech Republic, Taiwan, Japan, New Zealand, etc) not have problems in this regard that are nearly as bad as those of the United States? All of these countries are in practice much more societally secular/atheistic than the US and have a much lower percentage of their population as Christians than does the US and yet they don't have idiots storming their legislatures.

Could it be that belief in reason, evidence, science, and secularism is actually GOOD for a society? Probably so...at least the kind of people who are rationally minded, non-superstitious, and nongullible enough to presumably be willing to question the evidence for any kind of God are probably also not as easily susceptible to believe any cockamamie "Stop The Steal" or QAnon conspiracy type BS and to act on said nonsense.

[Tortoise]

...at least the kind of people who are rationally minded, non-superstitious, and nongullible enough to presumably be willing to question the evidence for any kind of God are probably also not as easily susceptible to believe any cockamamie "Stop The Steal" or QAnon conspiracy type BS and to act on said nonsense.

Even if that were true, a lot of those same people are apparently susceptible to believe in the media's incessant propaganda about systemic racism and white supremacy and act on said nonsense by rioting in various cities across the US. Many, if not most, Antifa scum are self-avowed atheists.

In other words, propaganda can work disturbingly well on both theists and atheists.

Atheists are just as "religious" as theists. Their "religion" just happens to be whatever set of ideals they passionately pour themselves into and vigorously defend.

[Mark Leavy]

(i.e. places like the Benelux countries, all of Scandinavia, the Baltic countries, France, Germany, Canada, Australia, Czech Republic, Taiwan, Japan, New Zealand, etc)
...
and yet they don't have idiots storming their legislatures.

D1984, I am 100% in agreement with the premise of your post. But, surely you are jesting about the part I quoted above? Maybe not this year but well within recent history.

[doodle]

It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.

I think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.

Based on what I've been reading over at r/conservative Trump is done and this is going to hurt the GOP. Many on this forum belong to a radical minority (I think you are aware of this). The opinions expressed here by many are some of the most extreme I have seen expressed anywhere. From everything I have read online and conversations I've had with conservative friends and family this was a wake up call. Completely agree with Corto.