Coronavirus General Discussion

[pugchief]

The comorbidity aspect is such a slippery slope/point of contention and concern, in my opinion.

He/she was fat, continues down the slope of they ate terribly, didn't exercise, compromised their body, and it's THEIR fault. If that goes through my head at times when watching the news of a young (obese) person dying of Covid, I'm sure many others have done the same.

And that's terrible.

You can make a case that an 85 year old who gets it and gets their life cut short by a few days/months that it's not a major deal.

But that gets much harder when it is young people.

I'm not saying this to try to justify lockdowns; just stating what I think a lot of people may be thinking and it's terrible these thoughts go through my head.

If this virus mainly targeted kids, I'm sure we'd all have a different perspective.

If they get diabetes from being fat and not exercising, is that THEIR fault? If they then need their foot amputated or develop some other diabetes related issue that cuts their life short or makes it less pleasant, is that THEIR fault? If a chain smoker gets lung cancer, is that THEIR fault? If not, whose fault is it? I'm not a sure I understand your logic.

[Cortopassi]

The comorbidity aspect is such a slippery slope/point of contention and concern, in my opinion.

He/she was fat, continues down the slope of they ate terribly, didn't exercise, compromised their body, and it's THEIR fault. If that goes through my head at times when watching the news of a young (obese) person dying of Covid, I'm sure many others have done the same.

And that's terrible.

You can make a case that an 85 year old who gets it and gets their life cut short by a few days/months that it's not a major deal.

But that gets much harder when it is young people.

I'm not saying this to try to justify lockdowns; just stating what I think a lot of people may be thinking and it's terrible these thoughts go through my head.

If this virus mainly targeted kids, I'm sure we'd all have a different perspective.

If they get diabetes from being fat and not exercising, is that THEIR fault? If they then need their foot amputated or develop some other diabetes related issue that cuts their life short or makes it less pleasant, is that THEIR fault? If a chain smoker gets lung cancer, is that THEIR fault? If not, whose fault is it? I'm not a sure I understand your logic.

My logic kind of is:

--Person in 20s/30s/40s is obese/overweight
--Yeah, it is messing with their body, and yeah, maybe a majority aren't doing anything about it
--But in general, it will take decades of damage to to get to the stuff you describe and/or death
--And instead of decades, Covid turns that into days/weeks

My thinking, as usual, is certainly not black and white.

[Cortopassi]

Darn.

https://deadline.com/2020/12/dawn-wells ... 234662935/

[Xan]

Darn.

https://deadline.com/2020/12/dawn-wells ... 234662935/

It killed Mary Ann?!!? I've been advocating peaceful coexistence with this thing, but this means WAR.

[dualstow]

Damn, I’ve been watching her for a few minutes on weekday mornings because it’s on when I feed the cat. Sweet MaryAnn.
You’re right, Xan, it *is* war.

I also recently saw the episode of Simpsons in which Moe had auditioned for a role in a soap. He overheard the producer arguing with the casting director. “I thought you said to get someone ugly.” “I meant MaryAnn ugly, not ____ ugly.”
Which is to say, hott.

I wonder if Bill Gross knows.
↳ viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11656&p=216633&hili ... ss#p216150

[pugchief]

Darn.

https://deadline.com/2020/12/dawn-wells ... 234662935/

It killed Mary Ann?!!? I've been advocating peaceful coexistence with this thing, but this means WAR.

This isn't the fault of Covid, it's our fault. We were just discussing the Ginger vs Mary Ann thing a short while ago and since everyone agreed that MA > G, this is karma's way of getting back at us. Now it's G or nothing.

[tomfoolery]

The comorbidity aspect is such a slippery slope/point of contention and concern, in my opinion.

He/she was fat, continues down the slope of they ate terribly, didn't exercise, compromised their body, and it's THEIR fault. If that goes through my head at times when watching the news of a young (obese) person dying of Covid, I'm sure many others have done the same.

And that's terrible.

You can make a case that an 85 year old who gets it and gets their life cut short by a few days/months that it's not a major deal.

But that gets much harder when it is young people.

I'm not saying this to try to justify lockdowns; just stating what I think a lot of people may be thinking and it's terrible these thoughts go through my head.

If this virus mainly targeted kids, I'm sure we'd all have a different perspective.

If they get diabetes from being fat and not exercising, is that THEIR fault? If they then need their foot amputated or develop some other diabetes related issue that cuts their life short or makes it less pleasant, is that THEIR fault? If a chain smoker gets lung cancer, is that THEIR fault? If not, whose fault is it? I'm not a sure I understand your logic.

But what if unregulated corporations promoted unhealthy foods that led to people getting diabetes?

Financial disclosure: I own shares of McDonalds and Davita.

[Tortoise]

The data does seem to suggest that it's about 10 times deadlier than average flu. 1% vs .1% death rate.

The Decimal Point That Blew Up the World

John Ioannidis sums up the disparity by age with the following infection fatality rate for people under the age of 70: 0.05%. This conclusion has been peer-reviewed and published by the World Health Organization.

How does this compare with the flu? We do not really know. As science journalist Shin Jie Yong has written, “There seems to be no data on age-specific IFR of the seasonal flu.” What this means is that crucial testimony of Fauci from March 11, in which he casually predicted based on bad numbers, that Covid would be ten times worse than the flu, can neither be confirmed or denied based on age-specific severe outcomes.

[sophie]

If this virus mainly targeted kids, I'm sure we'd all have a different perspective.

You mean like the 1918 flu, in which the bulk of fatalities were in young adults and kids?

Not really, then. There are way too many comparisons of COVID to the 1918 flu. In terms of #deaths/unit population and #years of life lost, there is just no comparison. And by that I mean that the 1918 flu was an order of magnitude worse than COVID.

I would guess that if George McGovern had kept his stupid opinions on diet to himself in the 1970s, and Ancel Keyes went into, say, dentistry instead of pathology, and the USDA never had a chance to get its grubby little paws on grocery store shelves, COVID might not have become such a monster. It can indeed lead to very severe illness - but in almost all cases it's in people with some manifestation of metabolic syndrome. Given that even children and teenagers are now commonly showing signs of severe metabolic derangements, it's hardly a surprise that people in their 40s are dying.

[Cortopassi]

If this virus mainly targeted kids, I'm sure we'd all have a different perspective.

You mean like the 1918 flu, in which the bulk of fatalities were in young adults and kids?

Not really, then. There are way too many comparisons of COVID to the 1918 flu. In terms of #deaths/unit population and #years of life lost, there is just no comparison. And by that I mean that the 1918 flu was an order of magnitude worse than COVID.

I would guess that if George McGovern had kept his stupid opinions on diet to himself in the 1970s, and Ancel Keyes went into, say, dentistry instead of pathology, and the USDA never had a chance to get its grubby little paws on grocery store shelves, COVID might not have become such a monster. It can indeed lead to very severe illness - but in almost all cases it's in people with some manifestation of metabolic syndrome. Given that even children and teenagers are now commonly showing signs of severe metabolic derangements, it's hardly a surprise that people in their 40s are dying.

I agree.

What I gather from reading history of early Chicago mainly, 1800s to early 1900s, life, in general, was harder, disease more rampant, and early death was much more of a given with Cholera and dysentery, for example, seemingly killing people all the time. And they just knew a lot less about what was happening.

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory. ... s/432.html

[boglerdude]

Another died with VS of video, for posterity
https://cdn.jwplayer.com/players/iTkquSLd-EAYoNgFe.html

I expected it to go away after the election. Didn't know Trump could refuse to concede, + that people would accept the narrative that he couldve prevented the crisis with "better management". So they'll keep riling up the libs until he's out.

[flyingpylon]

[Libertarian666]

But this is the first time that has ever happened!

[SomeDude]

But this is the first time that has ever happened!

This is the first time it was named after an overpriced imported beer that smells like pee.

[pp4me]

But this is the first time that has ever happened!

"That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9

Maybe global warming will help.

[SomeDude]

But this is the first time that has ever happened!

"That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9

Maybe global warming will help.

It's called Climate change PP. It has never been called Global warming and before it wasn't called global warning it wasn't on the cover of time or whatever being called a new ice age. Also everyone has died of AIDS like we were told we would before we died of SARS or Ebola or whatever else we've died from.

COVID is a giant power grabbing scam fellas. Even if this is a slightly worse flu year (debatable), we've given up everything in exchange for nothing.

And it allowed a hoax to be spread that Joe Biden is the most popular human in history lol.

[SomeDude]

The Covid and Biden hoaxes have a lot in common. It's official policy of FOX, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, Google, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, WaPo, NYT etc. to promote both hoaxes and remove content, censor, blacklist or insult anyone who disagrees.

Please ask yourself why content and debate about a pandemic or a national election needs this type of treatment?

Its the same reason poll watchers were kicked out of democrat cities when they flipped the states to Biden with truckloads of mysterious votes.

The truth is never afraid lies, but liars are afraid of the truth.

[Cortopassi]

Woo, haven’t looked at the forum for a few days.

Biden and Covid are hoaxes now, guess I didn’t miss much

[SomeDude]

Woo, haven’t looked at the forum for a few days.

Biden and Covid are hoaxes now, guess I didn’t miss much

No but we did miss you Cort. Where have you been? Why did you think you could take time off????

[boglerdude]

There's only a couple posters with extreme views.

Just to be sure this in the thread, Fauci on masks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI

Reddit celebrating the death of republicans by (with?) covid
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/ ... s/gi0w2yd/

[dualstow]

The Covid and Biden hoaxes ...
...

I've met two people on this forum who know firsthand that Covid is not a hoax.

[Libertarian666]

The Covid and Biden hoaxes ...
...

I've met two people on this forum who know firsthand that Covid is not a hoax.

Covid itself is not a hoax.
What is a hoax is the claim that it is so uniquely deadly that all of our civil rights must be suspended until it is completely gone.

[dualstow]

The Covid and Biden hoaxes ...
...

I've met two people on this forum who know firsthand that Covid is not a hoax.

Covid itself is not a hoax.
What is a hoax is the claim that it is so uniquely deadly that all of our civil rights must be suspended until it is completely gone.

Fair enough. I've turned something of a corner in that I think the damage to the economy does not warrant what they're doing to restaurants, for example. But I think "covid hoax" is too concise to let pass without comment.

[sophie]

The Covid and Biden hoaxes ...
...

I've met two people on this forum who know firsthand that Covid is not a hoax.

Covid itself is not a hoax.
What is a hoax is the claim that it is so uniquely deadly that all of our civil rights must be suspended until it is completely gone.

Fair enough. I've turned something of a corner in that I think the damage to the economy does not warrant what they're doing to restaurants, for example. But I think "covid hoax" is too concise to let pass without comment.

Yeah, agree. COVID is a real virus and it is certainly a killer for vulnerable populations.

It's the response to COVID that's at issue. We're behaving as though it had the mortality of the Black Death. The lockdowns we're experiencing now are almost perfectly parallel to the measures put in place in 1347-49 - right down to the masks, travel restrictions, and Biden's isolation in his basement. That's the only known precedent for the current state of affairs. At least that I'm aware of. Anyone know of others?

[dualstow]

Yeah, agree. COVID is a real virus and it is certainly a killer for vulnerable populations.

It's the response to COVID that's at issue. We're behaving as though it had the mortality of the Black Death. The lockdowns we're experiencing now are almost perfectly parallel to the measures put in place in 1347-49 - right down to the masks, travel restrictions, and Biden's isolation in his basement. That's the only known precedent for the current state of affairs. At least that I'm aware of. Anyone know of others?

I think at this point we should let people take calculated risks if they want to live their lives. No massive concerts in stadiums, but no arrests for 6 people in your own home because the neighbor told on you. (I saw that clip).
Balance.

Everyone has access to the info that's out there. Is it really a hoax, or are some gov'ts just being a little too heavy handed?