CARES Act Withdrawal for GOLD/CASH ?

[Sherlock]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

[SomeDude]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

What is your reason for having paper gold (which is not actual gold) vs. physical gold Sherlock?

[Dieter]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

I don't know enough specifically, but I think it adds interesting options.

Have to compare tax implications of course, but IMO, nice to have more funds in different buckets.

My spouse is older; I might take some money out from her ROTH accounts to put into iBonds as a better Cash option than available in retirement accounts.

[Sherlock]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

What is your reason for having paper gold (which is not actual gold) vs. physical gold Sherlock?

I have a couple of gold coins, but the majority of my retirement is in my IRA and 401(k). To make the PP work in my situation, I had to invest in a gold fund instead of buying physical - at least as a temporary solution.

[Sherlock]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

I don't know enough specifically, but I think it adds interesting options.

Have to compare tax implications of course, but IMO, nice to have more funds in different buckets.

My spouse is older; I might take some money out from her ROTH accounts to put into iBonds as a better Cash option than available in retirement accounts.

iBonds were another consideration for my cash portion as well. I currently don't have any, but I believe a distribution like this would allow $10k this year and $10 next year in iBonds.

[SomeDude]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

What is your reason for having paper gold (which is not actual gold) vs. physical gold Sherlock?

I have a couple of gold coins, but the majority of my retirement is in my IRA and 401(k). To make the PP work in my situation, I had to invest in a gold fund instead of buying physical - at least as a temporary solution.

Do you have any concerns about buying physical.

[Sherlock]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

What is your reason for having paper gold (which is not actual gold) vs. physical gold Sherlock?

I have a couple of gold coins, but the majority of my retirement is in my IRA and 401(k). To make the PP work in my situation, I had to invest in a gold fund instead of buying physical - at least as a temporary solution.

Do you have any concerns about buying physical.

None at all really. Just wondering if it is a good idea to withdraw from retirement accounts to make the purchase.

[SomeDude]

The deadline for the CARES Act withdrawal is coming up on the 30th, and I have been mulling over if I should take advantage of this to exchange some of my paper gold into physical, and the same for some of the cash portion. I qualify since we had the virus earlier this summer, so it is just a matter of deciding if it is a good idea or not...any thoughts?

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/coronaviru ... nd-answers

What is your reason for having paper gold (which is not actual gold) vs. physical gold Sherlock?

I have a couple of gold coins, but the majority of my retirement is in my IRA and 401(k). To make the PP work in my situation, I had to invest in a gold fund instead of buying physical - at least as a temporary solution.

Do you have any concerns about buying physical.

None at all really. Just wondering if it is a good idea to withdraw from retirement accounts to make the purchase.

Hmmm i don't know about the act but if you can withdraw without penalties it makes sense to me. Even if you have to pay tax, you'll have to pay at some point. You're maybe better off paying now than later.

Lets play this out.....

You take 10k out and pay 20% in taxes. You buy 4 oz gold. In 20 years gold is 10k an ounce. You've got 40k. 40k that no one knows about and if you do decide to sell.......maybe no one still needs to know.

You leave the 10k in. In 20 years you've got $50k. Everyone knows about it. When you sell......it might be more taxes or less, but very little chance you'll have more leftover than if you took it out now. There's a real possibility that the paper gold might end up not being real.

I'd say take it out and have all your gold as physical. Others disagree I'm sure. Gold in a tax advantaged account of any kind makes little sense to me. It already doesn't have dividends or interest payments to shelter. And its your option what you do when you sell.

[yankees60]

Hmmm i don't know about the act but if you can withdraw without penalties it makes sense to me. Even if you have to pay tax, you'll have to pay at some point. You're maybe better off paying now than later.

Lets play this out.....

You take 10k out and pay 20% in taxes. You buy 4 oz gold. In 20 years gold is 10k an ounce. You've got 40k. 40k that no one knows about and if you do decide to sell.......maybe no one still needs to know.

You leave the 10k in. In 20 years you've got $50k. Everyone knows about it. When you sell......it might be more taxes or less, but very little chance you'll have more leftover than if you took it out now. There's a real possibility that the paper gold might end up not being real.

I'd say take it out and have all your gold as physical. Others disagree I'm sure. Gold in a tax advantaged account of any kind makes little sense to me. It already doesn't have dividends or interest payments to shelter. And its your option what you do when you sell.

I do not think you ever answered my question of what you'd do if the plan stated that you should be buying $250,000. Or, $500,000 in physical gold? Where would you put it? Would you insure it in any way?

There are several discussions in this forum regarding holding physical gold.

When I finally get back to my Permanent Portfolio questions I will put some of those topics here.

Vinny

[SomeDude]

Hmmm i don't know about the act but if you can withdraw without penalties it makes sense to me. Even if you have to pay tax, you'll have to pay at some point. You're maybe better off paying now than later.

Lets play this out.....

You take 10k out and pay 20% in taxes. You buy 4 oz gold. In 20 years gold is 10k an ounce. You've got 40k. 40k that no one knows about and if you do decide to sell.......maybe no one still needs to know.

You leave the 10k in. In 20 years you've got $50k. Everyone knows about it. When you sell......it might be more taxes or less, but very little chance you'll have more leftover than if you took it out now. There's a real possibility that the paper gold might end up not being real.

I'd say take it out and have all your gold as physical. Others disagree I'm sure. Gold in a tax advantaged account of any kind makes little sense to me. It already doesn't have dividends or interest payments to shelter. And its your option what you do when you sell.

I do not think you ever answered my question of what you'd do if the plan stated that you should be buying $250,000. Or, $500,000 in physical gold? Where would you put it? Would you insure it in any way?

There are several discussions in this forum regarding holding physical gold.

When I finally get back to my Permanent Portfolio questions I will put some of those topics here.

Vinny

500k of gold is about 250 ounces. It takes up very small space. I'd feel safe storing that amount at home. No insurance. I don't want a paper trail. Im not worried about fire, its gold. It won't burn up. It can all be i a safe bolted down. Some could be buried in the back yard. Some could be hidden in the house. Legs of furniture are sometimes used, there's lots of options.

If you have 500k in gold you probably are a multi millionaire and have a decent home to store it. Again, its a very small amount of gold, about 8 kilo bars. They are not big.

[SomeDude]

The amount of gold you have is pretty proportional to your total net worth and most likely your means to store it personally. If you have $5M in gold, you probably have a $5M mansion too. Surely you can easily keep it hidden and safe. Shit store it in the garage under poured concrete. If you ever need to get it.....rent a jackhammer. Then pour more concrete.

[yankees60]

500k of gold is about 250 ounces. It takes up very small space. I'd feel safe storing that amount at home. No insurance. I don't want a paper trail. Im not worried about fire, its gold. It won't burn up. It can all be i a safe bolted down. Some could be buried in the back yard. Some could be hidden in the house. Legs of furniture are sometimes used, there's lots of options.

If you have 500k in gold you probably are a multi millionaire and have a decent home to store it. Again, its a very small amount of gold, about 8 kilo bars. They are not big.

Now that you gave that answer...I think you had answered with a similar answer. I think, though, that I followed up with...

By having a safe are you not then publicizing that you have something valuable in the house? Some place to attempt to break into if you are not home? Or, something to force you to open?

My house has so many things in it that if anyone even peaked in it they'd be so overwhelmed by how much they'd see in it with, therefore, nothing clear high value to quickly grab and leave.
They could well say to one another, "Let's go somewhere else where we can more quickly get valuables and leave. We might could spend all kinds of time here and find nothing of any value."

Vinny

[yankees60]

The amount of gold you have is pretty proportional to your total net worth and most likely your means to store it personally. If you have $5M in gold, you probably have a $5M mansion too. Surely you can easily keep it hidden and safe. Shit store it in the garage under poured concrete. If you ever need to get it.....rent a jackhammer. Then pour more concrete.

Not if you are "The millionaire next door" who decided it'd are more worthwhile to build up a financial portfolio than spend it on depreciating items like vehicles or annual high cost consuming items like expensive houses you really do not need.

Vinny

[SomeDude]

The amount of gold you have is pretty proportional to your total net worth and most likely your means to store it personally. If you have $5M in gold, you probably have a $5M mansion too. Surely you can easily keep it hidden and safe. Shit store it in the garage under poured concrete. If you ever need to get it.....rent a jackhammer. Then pour more concrete.

Not if you are "The millionaire next door" who decided it'd are more worthwhile to build up a financial portfolio than spend it on depreciating items like vehicles or annual high cost consuming items like expensive houses you really do not need.

Vinny

Yes not if you're that guy. Even if you are, hiding gold is not hard, there's a bazillion ways. Drill open the bottom of a kettlebell. Thieves aren't taking a giant heavy iron ball with them lol. Stick it under the fridge. Endless ways.

[yankees60]

The amount of gold you have is pretty proportional to your total net worth and most likely your means to store it personally. If you have $5M in gold, you probably have a $5M mansion too. Surely you can easily keep it hidden and safe. Shit store it in the garage under poured concrete. If you ever need to get it.....rent a jackhammer. Then pour more concrete.

Not if you are "The millionaire next door" who decided it'd are more worthwhile to build up a financial portfolio than spend it on depreciating items like vehicles or annual high cost consuming items like expensive houses you really do not need.

Vinny

Yes not if you're that guy. Even if you are, hiding gold is not hard, there's a bazillion ways. Drill open the bottom of a kettlebell. Thieves aren't taking a giant heavy iron ball with them lol. Stick it under the fridge. Endless ways.

Taking the refrigeration suggestion. I think you agree that the bar could melt under the refrigerator. Of course being gold none of it will get lost. But how will it melt? Would it all stay contiguous? Would it be a gold puddle?

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

Taking the refrigeration suggestion. I think you agree that the bar could melt under the refrigerator. Of course being gold none of it will get lost. But how will it melt? Would it all stay contiguous? Would it be a gold puddle?

Vinny

A regular house fire won’t do more than soften or slump 24 Carat. 22 Carat will be unaffected.

[SomeDude]

Taking the refrigeration suggestion. I think you agree that the bar could melt under the refrigerator. Of course being gold none of it will get lost. But how will it melt? Would it all stay contiguous? Would it be a gold puddle?

Vinny

A regular house fire won’t do more than soften or slump 24 Carat. 22 Carat will be unaffected.

Solid case for eagles or krugerrands

[yankees60]

Taking the refrigeration suggestion. I think you agree that the bar could melt under the refrigerator. Of course being gold none of it will get lost. But how will it melt? Would it all stay contiguous? Would it be a gold puddle?

Vinny

A regular house fire won’t do more than soften or slump 24 Carat. 22 Carat will be unaffected.

What is the highest temperature a "normal" house fire will reach? What temperature is needed to achieve a worse outcome than you describe?

Finally, does all this same apply to gold coins?

My intent would be always to buy gold coins since it seems they'd always be more readily accepted.

It seems with bullion because they are so much more valuable they'd be subject to more scrutiny as to whether it is genuine? And, in the case of what we are discussing would there not then be a cost associated with getting them assayed as how much there is of them and if they are pure? I guess the same question could be posed for melted gold coins?

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

Vinny, you need to get laid.

[yankees60]

Vinny, you need to get laid.

No.

Here is MY simple analysis of YOUR personal issue.

While you greatly like the display of my father's side of me you do NOT at all like and object to the display of my mother's side of me.

Unfortunately for you, at conception, I was destined to be this blend of my mother and father than I still am to this day (and, will be to the day I die.)

In general, I'm fairly content with that blend. Or, have learned to accept it.

That is all Ill say for now.

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

In general, I'm fairly content with that blend. Or, have learned to accept it.

You’re a good man Vinny. However it happened.

[SomeDude]

Taking the refrigeration suggestion. I think you agree that the bar could melt under the refrigerator. Of course being gold none of it will get lost. But how will it melt? Would it all stay contiguous? Would it be a gold puddle?

Vinny

Store the gold coins in the freezer. In the event of a house fire, the coins will start out being significantly colder than room temperature, giving you more time before they melt into a puddle.

Also, if a burglar comes, they’ll never think to look in the freezer.

-Tom

Silly as it sounds.....you can put them in a meatloaf or something and freeze it. I've read about 100 ways to hide gold. That is one.

[Dieter]

<snip>
I’ve got 99 ways to hide gold but a frozen meatloaf ain’t one.

I got 99 problems?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swnudbCnccs

(OT, but reminded me of this tune)

[ppnewbie]

One thing about withdrawing using the Cares act. I believe you do have to pay income tax on the distribution, just no penalty. Also my view on holding gold at home is that it’s storing a lot of potential energy at home. It could blow at any moment when the average American can’t take a $500 dollar emergency or the average retiree has 40k total going into retirement. Have not deeply verified these numbers but have heard them a few times in different contexts.

[SomeDude]

my view on holding gold at home is that it’s storing a lot of potential energy at home. It could blow at any moment........

What do you mean ppnewbie?