Coronavirus General Discussion

[dualstow]

Late 20s does seem late. You’re crazy, Vinny. Then again, I didn’t think about cheese, rennet & young animals until our own Mark Leavy pointed it out. I have since cut down on cheese, something I should be doing anyway since I’m LactAin’t.

I get meat from the farmers’ market. Bonus: it’s outside, and thus harder to get the coronavirus.

[yankees60]

It took until my late 20s before I fully realized that all those chicken wings and chicken legs I had loved to eat were real animals just like those crabs and lobsters. As soon as that connection was finally made I became a vegetarian on the spot and stopped eating the chicken I'd been eating.

Your late 20s? You’re... kidding, right?

No. Wings and legs do not look like chickens. It was a day I was eating with my parents at a Bonanza and I ordered something like a barbequed chicken? I had never ordered such a thing or seen such a thing before. When they brought it out it looked like a chicken. My thought was that if that thing was live and standing on the floor next to me I would want to pet it.

It's vaguely the same as in war where you are killing people by bombs from airplane compared to killing them in person-to-person combat. The former can be quite impersonal and feel distant while the latter can be extremely personal.

Therefore for me I'd always made the connection for crabs and lobsters because I was seeing the whole creature. All the rest of my meat eating had been parts that bore no resemblance to the animal from which it was derived. Hamburgers, meatballs, bacon, roast beef, pork chops, veal cutlets....do any of them in any way look like the animal from which they come?

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

I've stopped that as far my personal needs go. Unfortunately this delightful creature known as a cat that is currently laying on my lap is a carnivore. Therefore from my choice to have cats as a pets I am still causing other live creatures to be killed.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Subway is one of my favorites because I can order something extremely healthy and when I am quite hungry I can have something in my hands quite quickly.

Not picking on you, Vinny, but the last few times I went to Subway I felt like I was filling up on bread and some shady ingredients that had been sitting around for hours. Did they do a system-wide makeover?

Vinny, if you think Subway and Restaurant are the same thing, then I don't know what else to say.

It's a place where you can order food and sit down and eat it. It may not meet your definition or needs from a restaurant. What is your definition? Can it exclude it? Here is one definition: "a place where people pay to sit and eat meals that are cooked and served on the premises."

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them?

Yeah, that would be difficult. I've watched my grandma in years past clean pheasants that my dad brought home from hunting. Pretty tough compared to a nice shrink wrapped steak from the grocery.

[Xan]

Subway is one of my favorites because I can order something extremely healthy and when I am quite hungry I can have something in my hands quite quickly.

Not picking on you, Vinny, but the last few times I went to Subway I felt like I was filling up on bread and some shady ingredients that had been sitting around for hours. Did they do a system-wide makeover?

Vinny, if you think Subway and Restaurant are the same thing, then I don't know what else to say.

It's a place where you can order food and sit down and eat it. It may not meet your definition or needs from a restaurant. What is your definition? Can it exclude it? Here is one definition: "a place where people pay to sit and eat meals that are cooked and served on the premises."

Vinny

Vinny, allow me to translate. He doesn't mean that Subway doesn't meet the dictionary definition of a restaurant. He means the food is so bad that it shouldn't qualify.

[Xan]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

That certainly is the traditional way of eating.

There's a great British documentary called Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner about how we landed on these three meals and what they consist of. Here's a link to the part where a fellow brings out, in his words, "here we have half a pig". It's cut in half lengthwise. You can see all the delicious cuts of meat in there. Yum!

https://youtu.be/05jSIeZsDVw?t=620

[Cortopassi]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

That certainly is the traditional way of eating.

There's a great British documentary called Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner about how we landed on these three meals and what they consist of. Here's a link to the part where a fellow brings out, in his words, "here we have half a pig". It's cut in half lengthwise. You can see all the delicious cuts of meat in there. Yum!

https://youtu.be/05jSIeZsDVw?t=620

Already dead, guts and blood cleaned out, I can handle that 1/2 pig that was brought in, would have no issues cutting that up. I'd have to get used to the killing and cleaning part. Chickens seem reasonably easy. Bigger animals would take a lot more getting used to.

[Xan]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

That certainly is the traditional way of eating.

There's a great British documentary called Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner about how we landed on these three meals and what they consist of. Here's a link to the part where a fellow brings out, in his words, "here we have half a pig". It's cut in half lengthwise. You can see all the delicious cuts of meat in there. Yum!

https://youtu.be/05jSIeZsDVw?t=620

Already dead, guts and blood cleaned out, I can handle that 1/2 pig that was brought in, would have no issues cutting that up. I'd have to get used to the killing and cleaning part. Chickens seem reasonably easy. Bigger animals would take a lot more getting used to.

Good points, all.

[WiseOne]

Those darned conspiracy theories just keep coming true.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/12/barcodes-pr ... s-floated/

OK, Andrew Yang just disqualified himself for the Presidency in my book. The ignorance displayed in this article is stunning. To wit:

First - whatever happened to the concept of herd immunity? Wasn't that one of the goals of vaccination? It means that not everyone has to be vaccinated in order to stop the spread of the virus. Someone should tell AY that.

Second - it's been stated over and over by Fauci, CDC, governors etc that mask mandates, social distancing and other such measures will in no way be mitigated for vaccinated individuals. In short, they've been preparing us for the fact that even with 100% of the country vaccinated, we'll still be living under current semi-lockdown conditions indefinitely. Of course this contradicts the claim of 95% efficacy for the vaccines, which means they don't believe that figure will apply in practice any more than I do.

Third - wasn't the Trump White House excoriated in the media for doing exactly what Andrew Yang proposes - to use a rapid test as an admission ticket to a large-scale event? In other words, if every American were to get a rapid COVID test daily and quarantine immediately if it's positive, we would STILL be living under current semi-lockdown conditions.

There's also the issue that not everyone has a smartphone. And I'm going to go way out on a limb and presume that the minorities that AY cares so much about are at higher risk for being smartphone deficient than the general public. How does he propose to handle that? Yeah I know...free smartphones for all! Or at least for the preferred races/ethnic groups.

[whatchamacallit]

https://campusreform.org/?id=16463

From what I skimmed. This study has found that deaths as percentage of each age group has remained relatively the same since covid started.

Back to all of this being because of an aging population?

[Cortopassi]

https://campusreform.org/?id=16463

From what I skimmed. This study has found that deaths as percentage of each age group has remained relatively the same since covid started.

Back to all of this being because of an aging population?

From Fox News and others: https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-death ... er-counted
------------------------
NEW YORK – This is the deadliest year in U.S. history, with deaths expected to top 3 million for the first time – due mainly to the coronavirus pandemic.

Final mortality data for this year will not be available for months. But preliminary numbers suggest that the United States is on track to see more than 3.2 million deaths this year, or at least 400,000 more than in 2019.

U.S. deaths increase most years, so some annual rise in fatalities is expected. But the 2020 numbers amount to a jump of about 15% and could go higher once all the deaths from this month are counted.

That would mark the largest single-year percentage leap since 1918, when tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers died in World War I and hundreds of thousands of Americans died in a flu pandemic. Deaths rose 46% that year, compared with 1917.

[boglerdude]

If true, there's some suicide, overdose, and untreated medical conditions in there from the lockdown. And you might expect this from a new virus, even a less virulent/lethal one, because the elderly dont have immunity (in contrast to elderly w/immunity to influenza/rhinovirus from past exposure)

Lets hope this ends "wet markets" and we re-examine factory farming, with billions of animals stacked on top of each other, a giant virus-creating reactor and reservoir for past viruses.

[WiseOne]

Yeah there's no doubt that the nursing homes are being emptied out by the pandemic. I just saw an article that occupancy is down 15% compared to last year - and that's with aging Boomers coming online, so their numbers should have increased this year.

Keep in mind, though, that lockdowns have caused spikes in mortality from a range of conditions that are also included in that figure. Simply losing health insurance has a well documented mortality rate. Then there's increased mortality from people not going to the ER for heart attacks and strokes, delaying care for cancer, a big increase in suicides & domestic violence etc. Maddy recounted a pretty heartbreaking, personal tale of that not long ago.

[Tortoise]

It took until my late 20s before I fully realized that all those chicken wings and chicken legs I had loved to eat were real animals just like those crabs and lobsters. As soon as that connection was finally made I became a vegetarian on the spot and stopped eating the chicken I'd been eating.

Your late 20s? You’re... kidding, right?

No. Wings and legs do not look like chickens. It was a day I was eating with my parents at a Bonanza and I ordered something like a barbequed chicken? I had never ordered such a thing or seen such a thing before. When they brought it out it looked like a chicken. My thought was that if that thing was live and standing on the floor next to me I would want to pet it.

Okay. I thought what you meant was that you literally didn't know until your late 20s that chicken wings and legs came from animals.

Now it sounds like what you really meant was that you always knew they came from animals, but because they don't resemble whole chickens, it was easy for you to ignore that fact that just consider them "food". Makes sense.

[yankees60]

Subway is one of my favorites because I can order something extremely healthy and when I am quite hungry I can have something in my hands quite quickly.

Not picking on you, Vinny, but the last few times I went to Subway I felt like I was filling up on bread and some shady ingredients that had been sitting around for hours. Did they do a system-wide makeover?

Vinny, if you think Subway and Restaurant are the same thing, then I don't know what else to say.

It's a place where you can order food and sit down and eat it. It may not meet your definition or needs from a restaurant. What is your definition? Can it exclude it? Here is one definition: "a place where people pay to sit and eat meals that are cooked and served on the premises."

Vinny

Vinny, allow me to translate. He doesn't mean that Subway doesn't meet the dictionary definition of a restaurant. He means the food is so bad that it shouldn't qualify.

Again. Maybe for what all of you choose to eat there. Not for me. Plus it well fits for what I choose, of getting a healthy meal that is not that expensive, requires no tip, little waiting time to get the food.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

That certainly is the traditional way of eating.

There's a great British documentary called Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner about how we landed on these three meals and what they consist of. Here's a link to the part where a fellow brings out, in his words, "here we have half a pig". It's cut in half lengthwise. You can see all the delicious cuts of meat in there. Yum!

https://youtu.be/05jSIeZsDVw?t=620

I'm not sure that traditional is the correct word to describe it. What percentage of Americans do you this day, Tuesday, December 22, 2020 participated in this "tradition"?

Can you make a case for it even being anywhere close to 1%?

Vinny

[Xan]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

That certainly is the traditional way of eating.

There's a great British documentary called Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner about how we landed on these three meals and what they consist of. Here's a link to the part where a fellow brings out, in his words, "here we have half a pig". It's cut in half lengthwise. You can see all the delicious cuts of meat in there. Yum!

https://youtu.be/05jSIeZsDVw?t=620

I'm not sure that traditional is the correct word to describe it. What percentage of Americans do you this day, Tuesday, December 22, 2020 participated in this "tradition"?

Can you make a case for it even being anywhere close to 1%?

Vinny

What percentage of human history has it been done that way versus the way it's done today?

[yankees60]

Those darned conspiracy theories just keep coming true.

https://www.wnd.com/2020/12/barcodes-pr ... s-floated/

OK, Andrew Yang just disqualified himself for the Presidency in my book. The ignorance displayed in this article is stunning. To wit:

First - whatever happened to the concept of herd immunity? Wasn't that one of the goals of vaccination? It means that not everyone has to be vaccinated in order to stop the spread of the virus. Someone should tell AY that.

Second - it's been stated over and over by Fauci, CDC, governors etc that mask mandates, social distancing and other such measures will in no way be mitigated for vaccinated individuals. In short, they've been preparing us for the fact that even with 100% of the country vaccinated, we'll still be living under current semi-lockdown conditions indefinitely. Of course this contradicts the claim of 95% efficacy for the vaccines, which means they don't believe that figure will apply in practice any more than I do.

Third - wasn't the Trump White House excoriated in the media for doing exactly what Andrew Yang proposes - to use a rapid test as an admission ticket to a large-scale event? In other words, if every American were to get a rapid COVID test daily and quarantine immediately if it's positive, we would STILL be living under current semi-lockdown conditions.

There's also the issue that not everyone has a smartphone. And I'm going to go way out on a limb and presume that the minorities that AY cares so much about are at higher risk for being smartphone deficient than the general public. How does he propose to handle that? Yeah I know...free smartphones for all! Or at least for the preferred races/ethnic groups.

When I finally broke down and bought a smart phone AND activated it in June 2020 (I'd already owned several smart phones but had never activated them)...I had thought that I was the last remaining adult in the entire world to NOT have already had an activated smart phone!

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

Finally, what percentage of people do you think would eat the same amount of meat that they now do if they had to go to their backyards to look at the living animals in the eye and then kill them for later eating them? Forget about the time or logistics involved. I'm asking for a focus on making it 100% clear that your meat eating is causing another living creature to die.

That certainly is the traditional way of eating.

There's a great British documentary called Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner about how we landed on these three meals and what they consist of. Here's a link to the part where a fellow brings out, in his words, "here we have half a pig". It's cut in half lengthwise. You can see all the delicious cuts of meat in there. Yum!

https://youtu.be/05jSIeZsDVw?t=620

I'm not sure that traditional is the correct word to describe it. What percentage of Americans do you this day, Tuesday, December 22, 2020 participated in this "tradition"?

Can you make a case for it even being anywhere close to 1%?

Vinny

100%. There’s a grocery store in my backyard, metaphorically speaking. I slaughter green beans, lettuce and peanut butter frequently, along with ripping bloody animal parts to pieces every time I squash a mosquito.

[yankees60]

It took until my late 20s before I fully realized that all those chicken wings and chicken legs I had loved to eat were real animals just like those crabs and lobsters. As soon as that connection was finally made I became a vegetarian on the spot and stopped eating the chicken I'd been eating.

Your late 20s? You’re... kidding, right?

No. Wings and legs do not look like chickens. It was a day I was eating with my parents at a Bonanza and I ordered something like a barbequed chicken? I had never ordered such a thing or seen such a thing before. When they brought it out it looked like a chicken. My thought was that if that thing was live and standing on the floor next to me I would want to pet it.

Okay. I thought what you meant was that you literally didn't know until your late 20s that chicken wings and legs came from animals.

Now it sounds like what you really meant was that you always knew they came from animals, but because they don't resemble whole chickens, it was easy for you to ignore that fact that just consider them "food". Makes sense.

Yes. Good paraphrase and translation. I always knew meat came from animals but had never prior pictured the actual animal as I was eating those parts or lumps of meat that did not at all look like an animal. Except for as already citing never eating crab or lobster because they were there whole, right in front of me.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Received the below via email. I do not have a URL for it. If YOU need a URL I trust you know how to use Google or Bing (or any other search engine of choice) to find it.

Vinny


Here is some very useful COVID information from the John Hopkins Hospital information sheet relative to Coronavirus 19.

It is extremely informative and seems to be about the latest release of personal handling of this medical issue and is worth the time to study the information given for your personal care. Stay safe and stay well.

This certainly makes the CoVid -19 protection methods more understandable.



* This virus is not a living organism. It is a protein molecule (RNA or DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular (eyes), nasal (nose) or buccal mucosa (mouth), changes their genetic code (mutates) and converts into aggressor and multiplier cells.



* Since the virus is not a living organism, but is a protein molecule, it cannot be killed.



It has to decay on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.



* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat, and that is the reason why soap or detergent is the best weapon. The foam CUTS THE FAT (that is why you have to scrub for 20 seconds or more, to create lots of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down.



* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is necessary to use water above 77 degrees for hand washing, laundry and cleaning surfaces. In addition, hot water makes more foam, making it more effective.



* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ALL FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.



* Any solution with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaking it down from the inside.



* Oxygenated water increases the effectiveness of soap, alcohol, and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein. However, because you have to use it in its pure form, it can damage your skin.



* NO BACTERICIDE OR ANTIBIOTIC WILL WORK because the virus is not a living organism like bacteria; antibodies cannot kill what is not alive.



* The virus molecules remain very stable at colder temperatures, including air conditioning in houses and cars. They also need moisture and darkness to stay stable. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade the virus faster.



* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain the virus breaks down the protein. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin.



* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.



* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.



* NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is only 40% alcohol, and you need a minimum of 65%.



* LISTERINE is 65% alcohol.



* The more confined the space, the higher the concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.



* You have to wash your hands before and after touching any commonly used surfaces such as: mucosa (mouth area), food, locks, knobs, switches, remotes, cell phones, watches, computers, desks etc� and don’t forget when you use the bathroom.



* You have to MOISTURIZE YOUR HANDS due to frequent washing. Dry hands have cracks and the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.



* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.



Now for some additional input:



Dr. Bonnie Henry is the Provincial Health Officer for British Columbia, the first woman in this position. She is also an associate professor at the University of British Columbia. She has a background in epidemiology and is a specialist in public health and preventive medicine . She is also from PEI (Prince Edward Island).





The Wisdom of Dr. Bonnie Henry



1. We may have to live with COVID-19 for months or years. Let's not deny it or panic. Let's not make our lives useless. Let's learn to live with this fact.

2. You can't destroy COVID-19 viruses that have penetrated cell walls, by drinking gallons of hot water you'll just go to the bathroom more often.

3. Washing hands and maintaining a two-meter physical distance is the best method for your protection.

4. If you don't have a COVID-19 patient at home, there's no need to disinfect the surfaces at your house.

5. Packaged cargo, gas pumps, shopping carts and ATMs do not cause infection. If you wash your hands, live your life as usual.

6. COVID-19 is not a food infection. It is associated with drops of infection like the 'flu’. There is no demonstrated risk that COVID-19 is transmitted by food.

7. You can lose your sense of smell with a lot of allergies and viral infections. This is only a non-specific symptom of COVID-19.

8. Once at home, you don't need to change your clothes urgently and go shower! Purity is a virtue, paranoia is not!

9. The COVID-19 virus doesn't hang in the air for long. This is a respiratory droplet infection that requires close contact.

10. The air is clean; you can walk through the gardens and through parks (just keeping your physical protection distance).

11. It is sufficient to use normal soap against COVID-19, not antibacterial soap. This is a virus, not a bacterium.

12. You don't have to worry about your food orders. But you can heat it all up in the microwave if you wish.

13. The chances of bringing COVID-19 home with your shoes is like being struck by lightning twice in a day. I've been working against viruses for 20 years � drop infections don't spread like that!

14. You can't be protected from the virus by taking vinegar, sugarcane juice and ginger! These are for immunity not a cure.

15. Wearing a mask for long periods interferes with your breathing and oxygen levels. Wear it only in crowds.

16. Wearing gloves is also a bad idea; the virus can accumulate into the glove and be easily transmitted if you touch your face. Better just to wash your hands regularly.

Immunity is weakened by always staying in a sterile environment. Even if you eat immune boosting foods, please go out of your house regularly to any park/beach. Immunity is increased by EXPOSURE TO PATHOGENS, not by sitting at home and consuming fried/ spicy/sugary food and aerated drinks.



Be smart and stay informed! Live life sensibly and to the fullest.

Be Kind, Be Calm and Be Safe!

[SomeDude]

corona virus v 2.0 is coming soon to a lock-down near you..

they have tasted the power of being "the elite" rules for thee but not for me, high paying jobs for me but shutdown for thee,
the loss of the consent of the governed may be the overriding theme of 2021....

Coronovirus worship is a religion, and Fauci is the high Priest.

Non-believers will be stoned to economic death.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/californ ... -lockdowns

[yankees60]

Coronovirus worship is a religion, and Fauci is the high Priest.

Non-believers will be stoned to economic death.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/californ ... -lockdowns

I'd love to get Mathjak's current opinion on this?

Vinny

[doodle]

For those opposing masks, can you comment.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas ... 22120.php

In Physics of Fluids, by AIP Publishing, researchers tested how five different types of mask materials impacted the spread of droplets that carry the coronavirus when we cough or sneeze.

Every material tested dramatically reduced the number of droplets that were spread. But at distances of less than 6 feet, enough droplets to potentially cause illness still made it through several of the materials.

"A mask definitely helps, but if the people are very close to each other, there is still a chance of spreading or contracting the virus," said Krishna Kota, an associate professor at New Mexico State University and one of the article's authors. "It's not just masks that will help. It's both the masks and distancing."

At the university, researchers built a machine that uses an air generator to mimic human coughs and sneezes. The generator was used to blow tiny liquid particles, like the airborne droplets of sneezes and coughs, through laser sheets in an airtight square tube with a camera.

They blocked the flow of the droplets in the tube with five different types of mask materials -- a regular cloth mask, a two-layer cloth mask, a wet two-layer cloth mask, a surgical mask, and a medical-grade N-95 mask.

Each of the masks captured the vast majority of droplets, ranging from the regular cloth mask, which allowed about 3.6% of the droplets to go through, to the N-95 mask, which statistically stopped 100% of the droplets. But at distances of less than 6 feet, even those small percentages of droplets can be enough to get someone sick, especially if a person with COVID-19 sneezes or coughs multiple times.

[Mark Leavy]

For those opposing masks, can you comment.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas ... 22120.php

I oppose masks because they only draw out the process. Getting us to the same eventuality, more slowly and with more economic destruction.