doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:42 pm
That's a mystery to me. I read his blog for years and never spent a single penny on anything or even saw much advertising. How he earns 400,000 off of it is beyond me.
Same for my bank. Haven't given them a penny in 20 years. Not sure how they stay in business frankly.
Nor have I. But his web site gets huge amounts of visitors. Getting only a tiny percentage of those visitors to buy easily earns him $400,000 a year. Plus, that was from five years ago. It could not be $500,000 or $600,000. For some reason I had over $1,000,000 a year in my mind but obviously that was false memory.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 pm
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
Dualstow, my experience has been that you often get a better rate being self-pay. The "sticker price" is completely fake and nobody (nobody paying attention anyway) pays it, so any "discount" you get from having insurance is also fake.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 pm
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
Dualstow, my experience has been that you often get a better rate being self-pay. The "sticker price" is completely fake and nobody (nobody paying attention anyway) pays it, so any "discount" you get from having insurance is also fake.
For every year but about one I have been a self pay for both dental and eyes. As a result I always pay full price.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
Yeah, I don't understand this...he must have sort of catastrophic coverage. I can understand forgoing homeowners insurance but health insurance I don't get.
I'm self insured. No [medical] policy whatsoever.
I have car insurance because it is legally required.
I paid the Obama insurance penalty every year until it went away. Even though it would have been cheaper to buy the (useless to me) insurance.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 pm
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
Dualstow, my experience has been that you often get a better rate being self-pay. The "sticker price" is completely fake and nobody (nobody paying attention anyway) pays it, so any "discount" you get from having insurance is also fake.
For every year but about one I have been a self pay for both dental and eyes. As a result I always pay full price.
Vinny
Dental and vision are different, because insurance is not ubiquitous as it is in medicine.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 pm
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
Dualstow, my experience has been that you often get a better rate being self-pay. The "sticker price" is completely fake and nobody (nobody paying attention anyway) pays it, so any "discount" you get from having insurance is also fake.
self-pay = uninsured? I was uninsured for much of my late 20s and early thirties. I paid doctor bills with credit cards and they were never serious. But, pressure from relatives and doctors led me to believe it was crazy to not have catastrophic, which has gone from $300 (for me and my wife) to closer to $800 a month. It would be even more if I bought bronze at healthare dot gov.
There’s also the fact that I’m out of my forties now. I feel like I should have *something*. Some coverage.
You said that no one pays the fake original bill- is that true? What happens if I have to call an ambulance and get a $3,000 bill. I tell them “I’m not paying that” and then we haggle? It’s a sincere question; I really don’t know the answer. I was led to believe that only the insurance companies can haggle.
On public radio, they have the surprise insane medical bill of the month. They never suggest that the patient doesn’t have to pay.
(With the exception of the ER. For some reason, i have heard of people not paying their ER visit bill without collection agencies comeing after them).
Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:29 pm
Looks like I'll come in under $13,000 for 2020.
Is this just your food expenses, Kriegs? By the time you posted, the thread had already moved on to Mr. Money Mustache's annual budget and a discussion about whether or not he is crazy to "self insure". Also, is that $13,000 just for you eating like the king that you are?
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:06 pm
That works if you pay cash for everything. The problem is that credit card spending is a whole lot harder to limit without tracking. Of course, if your spending pattern is stable (as I'm guessing yours is), that might not be so much of a problem. I'm unfortunately very much subject to "spending creep" and have to keep an eye out for that. Also, you just have to be the kind of person who likes to track expenses.
We use credit cards but we typically pay them off after every expense so the balance is zero.
So do I, but my credit card usage is a lot more unpredictable than yours, it sounds like. One big factor is that I have to pay a lot of professional expenses out of pocket and then get reimbursed usually two months later, after the bill was paid.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:05 am
So do I, but my credit card usage is a lot more unpredictable than yours, it sounds like. One big factor is that I have to pay a lot of professional expenses out of pocket and then get reimbursed usually two months later, after the bill was paid.
I have this situation for job-related travel expenses (though not in 2020 ) so what I do is save about $2,000 extra in my travel account. It's slightly annoying to have that money tied up in a savings account rather than invested, but I prefer that to carrying a credit card balance.
MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:48 am
Mark, could you please elaborate? If it was cheaper to just buy the insurance than pay the penalty, what was the upside of going uninsured?
Just on principle. Being forced to buy a product that I didn't want and would never use goes against my grain. And since I could afford the penalty, and it was legal, I went that route instead.
dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 pm
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
Dualstow, my experience has been that you often get a better rate being self-pay. The "sticker price" is completely fake and nobody (nobody paying attention anyway) pays it, so any "discount" you get from having insurance is also fake.
For every year but about one I have been a self pay for both dental and eyes. As a result I always pay full price.
Vinny
Dental and vision are different, because insurance is not ubiquitous as it is in medicine.
There do seem to be a lot of people covered by dental insurance. I believe I am in the distinct minority as a full pay.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:06 pm
That works if you pay cash for everything. The problem is that credit card spending is a whole lot harder to limit without tracking. Of course, if your spending pattern is stable (as I'm guessing yours is), that might not be so much of a problem. I'm unfortunately very much subject to "spending creep" and have to keep an eye out for that. Also, you just have to be the kind of person who likes to track expenses.
We use credit cards but we typically pay them off after every expense so the balance is zero.
So do I, but my credit card usage is a lot more unpredictable than yours, it sounds like. One big factor is that I have to pay a lot of professional expenses out of pocket and then get reimbursed usually two months later, after the bill was paid.
First thing I do when I get a new credit card is establish online that the payment automatically gets deducted from my bank account on the day it is due. Saves me so much stress because in the past whenever I got a credit card bill, I'd obsess for the next three weeks that I have to write a check and mail it to them so that they get it by the due date.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
dualstow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:58 pm
According to this site, there is still a penalty from some states.
As of the 2019 tax year, the federal government no longer levies a penalty if you don't have health insurance. However, a few states—California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont—still have an individual mandate and most charge a penalty if you go uninsured.
I have catastrophic coverage for the simple reason that I want the insurance company to haggle on my behalf. That way, I spent a thousand on each CT scan rather than many thousands. Like my property taxes, my insurance bill goes up and up every year.
Dualstow, my experience has been that you often get a better rate being self-pay. The "sticker price" is completely fake and nobody (nobody paying attention anyway) pays it, so any "discount" you get from having insurance is also fake.
self-pay = uninsured? I was uninsured for much of my late 20s and early thirties. I paid doctor bills with credit cards and they were never serious. But, pressure from relatives and doctors led me to believe it was crazy to not have catastrophic, which has gone from $300 (for me and my wife) to closer to $800 a month. It would be even more if I bought bronze at healthare dot gov.
There’s also the fact that I’m out of my forties now. I feel like I should have *something*. Some coverage.
You said that no one pays the fake original bill- is that true? What happens if I have to call an ambulance and get a $3,000 bill. I tell them “I’m not paying that” and then we haggle? It’s a sincere question; I really don’t know the answer. I was led to believe that only the insurance companies can haggle.
On public radio, they have the surprise insane medical bill of the month. They never suggest that the patient doesn’t have to pay.
(With the exception of the ER. For some reason, i have heard of people not paying their ER visit bill without collection agencies comeing after them).
I don't have experience with an ambulance. As pug says, insurance may well not help you there either.
Your best position is to negotiate ahead of time. Pretty much everything is in this category. But I suppose there could be some emergency something where that wouldn't be possible. The earlier in the process you start negotiating the better.
The real solution is catastrophic health insurance coverage. Sadly, the do-gooders have made such a product illegal. I think that is the worst part about Obamacare.
doodle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:28 am
If you can pay in lump sum, I think medical bills could probably be negotiated down 60 or 70 percent. Of course if your bill is 200k that isn't much consolation. If assets are sheltered in retirement accounts than bankruptcy is option I imagine. I don't know how intense hospitals get with collections though.
Some hospitals can be extremely intense...
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
doodle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:23 am
I'm in my forties and catastrophic bronze for me is something like 30 dollars a month. How is yours so expensive? I'm assuming because you are still working and are well above subsidy income level?
It's because I pay for the whole thing out of pocket.
Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:29 pm
Looks like I'll come in under $13,000 for 2020.
Is this just your food expenses, Kriegs? By the time you posted, the thread had already moved on to Mr. Money Mustache's annual budget and a discussion about whether or not he is crazy to "self insure". Also, is that $13,000 just for you eating like the king that you are?
) so what I do is save about $2,000 extra in my travel account. It's slightly annoying to have that money tied up in a savings account rather than invested, but I prefer that to carrying a credit card balance.
