Help keep Vinny and his 12 pets from freezing this winter!!!!!

[yankees60]

VINNY’s Heating System issue.

In January 2020 I had no heat for two days in a row. 3 service calls. The last one solved it and the entire system has been working flawlessly since. Those three service calls were by two different service providers. But both of them told me my oil tank needed replacing. They gave no reasons why but presumably because of all the accumulated sludge in the tank (and, possibly its age). Just guessing since they gave no specific reasons.

Neither discussed any types of alternatives of which I now know there seem to be a handful of possibly successful ones which all are far less costly solutions than an oil tank replacement.

For over a decade I've had an off and on issue with losing heat once I get an oil delivery. The delivery stirs up the sludge that is sitting on the bottom of the tank which ends up with some of that sludge somewhere in the system of getting the oil in the tank to the oil burner. Once there is too much sludge somewhere in that system the oil burner shuts down, no heat, and a service call.

Recently I was shocked to find out the cost of a new tank may run $2,600 to $3,000 and it may be inferior construction-wise to my current tank. On top of that my present furnace is 22+ years old. I’m guessing if that should also be replaced then I’m looking at a possible total of $7,000 that should be spent. That leads to me thinking if it seems clear I should be spending that amount of money then maybe I need to also look at what switching to propane would cost.

Spending that money would not affect my lifestyle in any way but I’m not one to spend for something just because I can afford to. I always demand top value plus I don’t like wasting money in any way. It could be used for something more beneficial for either for me or someone else in this world.

This week I’ve done an incredible amount of thinking and research regarding the whole thing. But heating systems are not anywhere in my area of expertise and I definitely am interested in getting your input!

Right now my house is set to only 54 degrees because if I end up making the decision to keep this tank then I need to keep in the tank as much oil as possible so as to minimize the possibilities of the next oil fill up causing sludge to get into the system and then requiring another service call. Or, service calls.

Right now I'm a shade under 1/4 a tank. I started heating season at 3/8's so have only used an 1/8 tank so far during this first two plus months of the heating season.

I know that there are several people reading this who know far more about these things than me (even though through diligent research this week I now know way more about all of this than I did last week). But I'm really stuck on what should be my next steps to take.

In this particular case, there are a lot of unique complexities.

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Vinny.

[Cortopassi]

Right now my house is set to only 54 degrees

I would literally be dead! Your cats must hate you!

[yankees60]

Right now my house is set to only 54 degrees

I would literally be dead! Your cats must hate you!

Wherever I am it is a minimum of the low 70s. Presently it is 79.0 in this room. The 9 rodents permanently live in this room. At the time I write this all three cats have chosen to be in here.

Last night out of fear of possibly getting electricity outage for an indeterminate amount of time due to last night / this morning's snow storm I had the room at close to 90 from last night until this morning. Late this morning I finally had to shut off the electric blast furnace just behind this chair as I realized I was feeling so suffocated and oppressed by that much heat that I'd not be able to productively work.

But the heat sink effect of there being so much in this room has allowed the temperature to only so far drift down to 79.0.

The thing that really surprised me this winter was that when I had the thermostat at 58 for the entire house, that the heat generated from having on for 16 hours a day two computers and six monitors and a TV plus a 100 watt foot warmer kept the room at a mix-70s temperature with no supplemental heat of any kind. Further surprising that after all had been off for 7 or 8 hours while I was in bed, the temperature would still be about 70 in the morning.


Vinny

[doodle]

Right now my house is set to only 54 degrees

I would literally be dead! Your cats must hate you!

My dog still loves me at 56

[Pointedstick]

What's the distribution system look like? Radiators with a steam boiler? Hydronic with a hot water boiler? Central ducted forced air with a furnace? Do you have a natural gas connection? Is one potentially available?

[Hal]

Hi Vinny,

Consider getting a heat pump eg -> https://daikinatlantic.ca/2019/11/03/wh ... d-weather/
Was much cheaper than gas heating for us.

Also consider getting a Collie
No issues with the cold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC50mId3hb0

PS: https://inspectapedia.com/oiltanks/Oil_ ... blems5.php

[Mountaineer]

Check out this forum. I got lots of help from it several years ago when I was considering switching from propane to natural gas, new furnace, ac etc.

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/

[doodle]

A couple basic principles I think of regarding heat...

1. You are trying to heat you. Your books and furniture and whatever don't care what temperature it is. The easiest way to accomplish that is by putting on clothes. Heating a whole house and all its thermal mass 50 degrees or more above outside ambient just to keep your toes warm sounds insane to me.

2. If you find yourself uncomfortable or cold during certain moments..sitting at a desk, getting out of shower...get a small space heater. You can also learn a lot from other cultures. In spain, people would create small heated areas like these images. Your animals could huddle in there as well. I'm sure you could give them a small warm space and they would happily burrow in. Drinking hot beverages also helps.

3. Recognize that you are an adaptable creature whose ancestors would laugh if you were complaining about being cold in 54 degrees. You will get used to just about anything. A few weeks and the body adapts. The bonus is the weather outside now feels a lot warmer as well!

kotatsu-japanese-heating-bed-table-fb__700.jpg (62.54 KiB) Viewed 4651 times

220px-Kotatsu.svg.png (8.57 KiB) Viewed 4651 times

I don't know about that burning charcoal under the table idea...lol....I think the Japanese have some special variety that allows them to burn small amounts indoors. I can't imagine using kingsford!

[doodle]

Oh, and if all those aren't enough...you could take one room to make your warm room...position it in the house advantageously if possible to get most of days sun...perhaps create some insulation cutouts for the windows at night. You could keep that room at 65 degrees and just keep the rest of the house much lower...just high enough so pipes don't freeze and what not.

Extra bonus points if you get a small wood burning stove for that room. You could outfit it like thoreau's cabin....go for walks in the wood to collect deadfall. You could make it your wintertime getaway. Then it's fun, not sacrifice!

[yankees60]

What's the distribution system look like? Radiators with a steam boiler? Hydronic with a hot water boiler? Central ducted forced air with a furnace? Do you have a natural gas connection? Is one potentially available?

Mr. Pointedstick! I was hoping you'd get involved with this given all your knowledge in this area.

I believe it would be best described as: "Central ducted forced air with a furnace"

No natural gas connection. Plus, here in a large geographic area where I live there has been a multi-year moratorium on any new connections for natural gas. Covers both businesses and residences.

But my across the street neighbor is a propane gas truck driver (sometimes bring the truck home with him). Plus he sells propane on his property. I assume this is only to fill cannisters. But good for me since I have a propane electricity generator.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Hi Vinny,

Consider getting a heat pump eg -> https://daikinatlantic.ca/2019/11/03/wh ... d-weather/
Was much cheaper than gas heating for us.

Also consider getting a Collie
No issues with the cold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC50mId3hb0

PS: https://inspectapedia.com/oiltanks/Oil_ ... blems5.php

This is what stops me from pursuing something like this: 'While most efficient heat pump models can function efficiently in temperatures as low as -27 degrees celsius, it is a good idea to have a backup heating source for those unusually cold days where a heat pump loses its advantage in heating efficiency. "

If you have to have a "backup heating source" then what's the point? You have all the initial investment costs to have that source plus ongoing costs to make sure it works.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Check out this forum. I got lots of help from it several years ago when I was considering switching from propane to natural gas, new furnace, ac etc.

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/

Thanks A LOT for this!!!

It seems like it will be EXTREMELY useful to me!

Thanks again!

Vinny

[yankees60]

A couple basic principles I think of regarding heat...

1. You are trying to heat you. Your books and furniture and whatever don't care what temperature it is. The easiest way to accomplish that is by putting on clothes. Heating a whole house and all its thermal mass 50 degrees or more above outside ambient just to keep your toes warm sounds insane to me.

2. If you find yourself uncomfortable or cold during certain moments..sitting at a desk, getting out of shower...get a small space heater. You can also learn a lot from other cultures. In spain, people would create small heated areas like these images. Your animals could huddle in there as well. I'm sure you could give them a small warm space and they would happily burrow in. Drinking hot beverages also helps.

3. Recognize that you are an adaptable creature whose ancestors would laugh if you were complaining about being cold in 54 degrees. You will get used to just about anything. A few weeks and the body adapts. The bonus is the weather outside now feels a lot warmer as well!

kotatsu-japanese-heating-bed-table-fb__700.jpg

220px-Kotatsu.svg.png

I don't know about that burning charcoal under the table idea...lol....I think the Japanese have some special variety that allows them to burn small amounts indoors. I can't imagine using kingsford!

Regarding your points...

1. I fully know I'm the only one who needs the heat. All the pets have fur! As I sit here I have on sweat pants and hooded sweatshirt over my shorts and t-shirt. My feet are resting on a 100 watt foot warming pad.

2. I have two space heaters in this room. One in the bathroom. Tons of extra space heaters to use that are just sitting in my basement. The one behind me is like a blast furnace, putting out tons of heat. I'm about to drink four cups of hot tea. The temperature in this room is currently at 77.5 degrees. It is 29 degrees outside my house. 54 degrees in the living room. 50 degrees in the kitchen. The only sources of supplemental heat that have been on in this room all day is the heat coming out of two computers, seven computer monitors, one TV, and my 100 watt foot warmer.

3. I exercised this morning in shorts and T-shirt in the living room this morning for about 2 1/2 hours. No problem. However, as soon as I am sitting from my knees down to my feet I turn into a block of ice. Thus the need for the foot warmer.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Vinny, If a natural gas line is available, a forced air system is probably the most efficient.

Doodle, I'm pretty sure burning charcoal indoors can create dangerous levels of carbon monoxide.

My oil furnace based system is a forced hot air system.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Oh, and if all those aren't enough...you could take one room to make your warm room...position it in the house advantageously if possible to get most of days sun...perhaps create some insulation cutouts for the windows at night. You could keep that room at 65 degrees and just keep the rest of the house much lower...just high enough so pipes don't freeze and what not.

Extra bonus points if you get a small wood burning stove for that room. You could outfit it like thoreau's cabin....go for walks in the wood to collect deadfall. You could make it your wintertime getaway. Then it's fun, not sacrifice!

This bedroom IS my warm room. It has one window facing east and one window facing south.

As I just earlier stated, I quickly turn to a block of ice when I sit down. Therefore I need both foot warming and room temperature of about mid-70s so that my mind is not continually being distracted by my various body parts constant complaints of being too cold.

No woodstove for me! I want instant heat without having to put in any work to get it! Which I do get whenever I turn on a space heater.

Finally, what temperature could I set my thermostat at so that pipes do not freeze?

I assume that the ones at risk would those in my kitchen and those in my basement?

How cold can a basement get? Isn't that fact that it is mostly in contact with the earth limit how cold it can get?

I was wondering if I could turn off my oil furnace entirely and run an electric space heater on low to keep the pipes under the kitchen sink from freezing. I would not heat the basement.

Vinny

[doodle]

Doodle, I'm pretty sure burning charcoal indoors can create dangerous levels of carbon monoxide.

the_japanese_hearth_5354.jpg (212.95 KiB) Viewed 4673 times

If you light up the weber grill full of kingsford for sure! . I burned royal oak all winter in my van...obviously vented though. Great heat source for stealthiness...smokeless, long burning, and hot! I had CO alarm...2 actually. Oh, and would stick a few pieces under oil sump on the really cold days before cranking over engine

The Japanese burn it traditionally without any venting inside. I don't know.

The Japanese use of charcoal is pretty fascinating. I never thought charcoal could be so cool.


https://youtu.be/3RBTAR80pJ0

[Cortopassi]

I burned royal oak all winter in my van...

Anyone want to hear about my boring life?

Not that I want to live in a van down by the river.

[doodle]

I burned royal oak all winter in my van...

Anyone want to hear about my boring life?

Not that I want to live in a van down by the river.

It wasn't nearly as romantic as it sounds. But nothing gets the spirits up like fire!

Sounds like you got it under control, vinny. I dont know about that 77 degrees...I'd be walking around in my underwear at that temp!

[yankees60]

I burned royal oak all winter in my van...

Anyone want to hear about my boring life?

Not that I want to live in a van down by the river.

It wasn't nearly as romantic as it sounds. But nothing gets the spirits up like fire!

Sounds like you got it under control, vinny. I dont know about that 77 degrees...I'd be walking around in my underwear at that temp!

Two days ago when I was in fear of losing electricity due to snow for an indeterminate amount of time I had the room heated to almost 90 so that if I lost electricity I'd be able to benefit from the reverse heat sink effect of the tremendous amount of mass in this room. The only way I could put up with it was to be wearing absolutely nothing. But by yesterday morning I was feeling so oppressed and suffocated that I had to turn off that great electric furnace just behind this chair I am sitting in. But, in general, I feel pain from the cold and thrive in the heat. Must be my 100% Southern Italian genes?

Vinny

[doodle]

I burned royal oak all winter in my van...

Anyone want to hear about my boring life?

Not that I want to live in a van down by the river.

It wasn't nearly as romantic as it sounds. But nothing gets the spirits up like fire!

Sounds like you got it under control, vinny. I dont know about that 77 degrees...I'd be walking around in my underwear at that temp!

Two days ago when I was in fear of losing electricity due to snow for an indeterminate amount of time I had the room heated to almost 90 so that if I lost electricity I'd be able to benefit from the reverse heat sink effect of the tremendous amount of mass in this room. The only way I could put up with it was to be wearing absolutely nothing. But by yesterday morning I was feeling so oppressed and suffocated that I had to turn off that great electric furnace just behind this chair I am sitting in. But, in general, I feel pain from the cold and thrive in the heat. Must be my 100% Southern Italian genes?

Vinny

After being so mobile the last year and a half or so I don't know why so many people choose to stay in places and climates that don't suit them. I was static for a while but have come to rediscover how easy moving is. Maybe consider something down further south!

[yankees60]

I burned royal oak all winter in my van...

Anyone want to hear about my boring life?

Not that I want to live in a van down by the river.

It wasn't nearly as romantic as it sounds. But nothing gets the spirits up like fire!

Sounds like you got it under control, vinny. I dont know about that 77 degrees...I'd be walking around in my underwear at that temp!

Two days ago when I was in fear of losing electricity due to snow for an indeterminate amount of time I had the room heated to almost 90 so that if I lost electricity I'd be able to benefit from the reverse heat sink effect of the tremendous amount of mass in this room. The only way I could put up with it was to be wearing absolutely nothing. But by yesterday morning I was feeling so oppressed and suffocated that I had to turn off that great electric furnace just behind this chair I am sitting in. But, in general, I feel pain from the cold and thrive in the heat. Must be my 100% Southern Italian genes?

Vinny

After being so mobile the last year and a half or so I don't know why so many people choose to stay in places and climates that don't suit them. I was static for a while but have come to rediscover how easy moving is. Maybe consider something down further south!

After having lived in the same town for 44 years I have a lot of significant community roots including having places to play softball and basketball at my age. Moving somewhere else would put both of those at risk given my current age and (lack of) athletic abilities. Finally, I am THE anti-minimalist. I am a big-time collector. I will by dying in this house!

Vinny

[dualstow]

Oh, good, this isn't a GoFundMe page.
I read an article recently about new construction banning natural gas. (I think WiseOne's bldg is the opposite, ruling out electricity for ovens).

I don't know the solution to your dilemma of whether to go to propane or to fix the old oil system, but I was wondering if you have a space heater for a room that you and the animals can flock to if things go haywire again.

I've tried various space heaters for emergencies, like when the ignitor in my forced air furnace burnt out.
The best so far is a sealed oil heater. It looks like a radiator on wheels with an electric cord.

Good luck to you, sir.

[dualstow]

p.s. Hal mentioned heat pumps.
Good explanation here. I listen to it now and then, and I'll admit it's mostly because the accent cracks me up.
https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/08 ... -efficient

[yankees60]

Oh, good, this isn't a GoFundMe page.
I read an article recently about new construction banning natural gas. (I think WiseOne's bldg is the opposite, ruling out electricity for ovens).

I don't know the solution to your dilemma of whether to go to propane or to fix the old oil system, but I was wondering if you have a space heater for a room that you and the animals can flock to if things go haywire again.

I've tried various space heaters for emergencies, like when the ignitor in my forced air furnace burnt out.
The best so far is a sealed oil heater. It looks like a radiator on wheels with an electric cord.

Good luck to you, sir.

I have a never ending supply of space heaters. Two are always in this room. One behind me and another next to my bed. And, other than when I am in the bathroom or barely in the kitchen or doing my three times a week exercise program in the living room I am always in this room - currently at 76.6 degrees. All the heat curtesy of two computers / seven monitors / a TV / 100 watt foot warming pad. The rodents are always in here with me and it is the cats' choice, as queens of the house, where they want to be in the house.

Vinny

[Pointedstick]

Because you currently use oil (an expensive fuel) and don't have access to natural gas (a cheap fuel) and would have to replace it with propane (another expensive fuel) I strongly encourage you to look into heat pumps.

You will run into countless people--including HVAC contractors--who tell you that it can't be done, that they stop heating properly at 40 degrees, that they only work in Georgia and Florida, that they will cost a fortune, that they only produce warm air that isn't comfortable, and so on.

All of them are wrong. Their information is 30 years out of date.

I know because I encountered these people while I was speccing out a heat pump system for my own house. In the end I got a quad-zone ductless mini-split system installed for about $9,000 out the door ($9,600 before the tax credits) and everything those clowns warned me about was totally wrong. They produce nice hot air. They work great below freezing temperatures. Before I had solar they were no more expensive then natural gas to run. With solar, they are free to run. Yes, free. I did it and you can too! And they give you air conditioning too, if you don't already have that. The filters are washable so you never need to buy new filters ever again. They just sit there blowing hot or cold air. I love them. I'd do it again in a heartbeat and I recommend mini-splits to everyone.

I would encourage you to look into multi-zone ductless mini-split systems and abandon the existing ductwork and equipment. The ductless units are far more efficient than central ducted equipment and far more capable of cold weather operation. Don't put any heads in the bathrooms and each bedroom needs only a 6,000 BTU head--the smaller the better. Contractors will swear you need 9 or 12k BTUs per bedroom but they're all crazy. Then you can put one or two heads in the remaining rooms of the house. If there's a large open area you can use a single large head. They distribute air very well.

What you need to do is talk to contractors until you get someone who doesn't look at you like you're made of bees when you tell him that you want a total mini-split conversion. This is the guy who has actually learned something new in the last few decades and is willing to take your money. He'll do a great job too. It's likely that he's kept his other skills up to date if he knows that mini-splits can work in MA. My parents live in RI and their neighbor has mini-splits. They work perfectly. Just make sure you get a cold climate unit. The Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat models have a great reputation.

You don't need a built-in backup heat source. If anything, you've proved that your computers and body heat and a few space heaters are already an adequate backup heat source. A well-insulated house really doesn't need extraordinary amounts of extra heat pumped into it.

That said, I do have a backup heat source: a nice wood-burning fireplace insert. I got it because I was apprehensive about the same thing you were, but it turned out to be totally unnecessary. However my wife loves having a nice fire going, so we use it anyway, not because we have to when it gets really cold, but because it's a luxury.