Are they worried about running out of lethal injection materials?

[Libertarian666]

i am fond of something that is likely considered an outlandish idea in the modern world but it seems humane and has plenty of usage in human history as to not be judged as cruel or unusual.
Banishment.
fence off a few thousand acres/ square miles of survivable land, give the criminal a wagon filled with a couple years food, seed, tools, livestock, building materials, how to books, and wish them well.

-the punishment fits the crime, they have irrevocably broken the foundational bonds with (rules of) society and the punishment is starting a society of your own with a group of your peers.
- no contact between the banished and the outside world. this MAY even act as somewhat of a deterrent, the unknown is scarier than life in prison, which most cons shrug off and know they can handle. imagining the worst and not knowing what the banished society is like (cannibalistic hell hole quiet agrarian community?) may cause some second thought.
- its cheep.. the cost of a grubstake and they are on their own..
- stepping outside the banished zone is an automatic death sentence.. no questions, no exceptions, banished is complete and forever..

Heinlein beat you to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_(short_story)

[yankees60]

i am fond of something that is likely considered an outlandish idea in the modern world but it seems humane and has plenty of usage in human history as to not be judged as cruel or unusual.
Banishment.
fence off a few thousand acres/ square miles of survivable land, give the criminal a wagon filled with a couple years food, seed, tools, livestock, building materials, how to books, and wish them well.

-the punishment fits the crime, they have irrevocably broken the foundational bonds with (rules of) society and the punishment is starting a society of your own with a group of your peers.
- no contact between the banished and the outside world. this MAY even act as somewhat of a deterrent, the unknown is scarier than life in prison, which most cons shrug off and know they can handle. imagining the worst and not knowing what the banished society is like (cannibalistic hell hole quiet agrarian community?) may cause some second thought.
- its cheep.. the cost of a grubstake and they are on their own..
- stepping outside the banished zone is an automatic death sentence.. no questions, no exceptions, banished is complete and forever..

Somewhat similar to what my friend said to me in 2013 when I asked him if he considered drug taking to be a "disease". He said that they did it because they liked the way it made them feel. We were discussing what then to do with all the users who were just always constantly being a drain on society, never being a benefit to society. He said to send them all of with food to live on an island.

[Mark Leavy]

i am fond of something that is likely considered an outlandish idea in the modern world but it seems humane and has plenty of usage in human history as to not be judged as cruel or unusual.
Banishment.
fence off a few thousand acres/ square miles of survivable land, give the criminal a wagon filled with a couple years food, seed, tools, livestock, building materials, how to books, and wish them well.

-the punishment fits the crime, they have irrevocably broken the foundational bonds with (rules of) society and the punishment is starting a society of your own with a group of your peers.
- no contact between the banished and the outside world. this MAY even act as somewhat of a deterrent, the unknown is scarier than life in prison, which most cons shrug off and know they can handle. imagining the worst and not knowing what the banished society is like (cannibalistic hell hole quiet agrarian community?) may cause some second thought.
- its cheep.. the cost of a grubstake and they are on their own..
- stepping outside the banished zone is an automatic death sentence.. no questions, no exceptions, banished is complete and forever..

Somewhat similar to what my friend said to me in 2013 when I asked him if he considered drug taking to be a "disease". He said that they did it because they liked the way it made them feel. We were discussing what then to do with all the users who were just always constantly being a drain on society, never being a benefit to society. He said to send them all of with food to live on an island.

Vinny

Yea, but then you get Australians.

[yankees60]

i am fond of something that is likely considered an outlandish idea in the modern world but it seems humane and has plenty of usage in human history as to not be judged as cruel or unusual.
Banishment.
fence off a few thousand acres/ square miles of survivable land, give the criminal a wagon filled with a couple years food, seed, tools, livestock, building materials, how to books, and wish them well.

-the punishment fits the crime, they have irrevocably broken the foundational bonds with (rules of) society and the punishment is starting a society of your own with a group of your peers.
- no contact between the banished and the outside world. this MAY even act as somewhat of a deterrent, the unknown is scarier than life in prison, which most cons shrug off and know they can handle. imagining the worst and not knowing what the banished society is like (cannibalistic hell hole quiet agrarian community?) may cause some second thought.
- its cheep.. the cost of a grubstake and they are on their own..
- stepping outside the banished zone is an automatic death sentence.. no questions, no exceptions, banished is complete and forever..

Somewhat similar to what my friend said to me in 2013 when I asked him if he considered drug taking to be a "disease". He said that they did it because they liked the way it made them feel. We were discussing what then to do with all the users who were just always constantly being a drain on society, never being a benefit to society. He said to send them all of with food to live on an island.

Vinny

Yea, but then you get Australians.

I shall let our resident Australian respond to that!

[Cortopassi]

Makes me want to watch Escape from New York.

[Mark Leavy]

I did not know that. I approve. Any idea why isn't this used?

No money in it?

The electric chair was promoted by Thomas Edison as part of his propaganda war against Nikolai Tesla. Edison was promoting DC electricity while Tesla was a proponent of AC electricity.

Edison thought it would be great to demonstrate that AC electricity was painful, torturous and deadly. So he vigorously lobbied to use Tesla’s AC as an execution instrument. The more visual and horrific the better.

Not a lot of thought to the whole “cruel and unusual”clause.

[Cortopassi]

Apparently nitrogen executions have/are being considered by some states.

This is from two years ago.

https://oklahomawatch.org/2018/07/17/pu ... for-state/

[Mark Leavy]

Apparently nitrogen executions have/are being considered by some states.

This is from two years ago.

https://oklahomawatch.org/2018/07/17/pu ... for-state/

Interesting! Thanks.

Like much journalism, they get a lot of the details wrong. No need to strap anybody down. No need for a sedative. No need for a hood or plastic bag. No worry about exposing the guards. No toxic fumes. Hypoxia works by a lack of Oxygen not exposure to Nitrogen. No need to worry about where you get nitrogen gas.

Who writes this shit?
Just put the condemned in a room and fill the room with gas from a welding supply store.

[glennds]

Apparently nitrogen executions have/are being considered by some states.

This is from two years ago.

https://oklahomawatch.org/2018/07/17/pu ... for-state/

Interesting! Thanks.

Like much journalism, they get a lot of the details wrong. No need to strap anybody down. No need for a sedative. No need for a hood or plastic bag. No worry about exposing the guards. No toxic fumes. Hypoxia works by a lack of Oxygen not exposure to Nitrogen. No need to worry about where you get nitrogen gas.

Who writes this shit?
Just put the condemned in a room and fill the room with gas from a welding supply store.

Once again, looks like Mark wins the Happy Hour trivia contest.

The only reason I know what he's saying is true, is a criminal case that became a big deal in Arizona. It involved a person with a degenerative irreversible disease who contacted an assisted suicide organization called the Hemlock Society (or they might have changed their name to something else). Basically this non-profit group would send out volunteers to provide guidance to a person who wanted to take their own life. After first trying to talk them out of it and unsuccessfully trying to persuade them to seek counseling, the volunteer would then teach the person how to rent a helium balloon setup from Party City, and then rig the helium tank with a nasal cannula or mask that they could wear to breath helium and die in bed painlessly from hypoxia.

In the AZ case, they tried to charge the volunteers from Hemlock with manslaughter, and they ultimately pleaded down to misdemeanors and one was acquitted at trial.

[Cortopassi]

Not long ago we were discussing worst ways to die at the dinner table. We pretty much settled on drowning.

And now I know why I get lightheaded when I suck on a helium balloon. I didn't know it replaces oxygen!

Just thinking I can go out and get a bottle of nitrogen or helium and be dead 4 minutes later with no blood or pain is unnerving.

[Cortopassi]

And now I know why I get lightheaded when I suck on a helium balloon. I didn't know it replaces oxygen!

Technically helium doesn't "replace" Oxygen, it "displaces" oxygen. The distinction is important in the discussion because of how Carbon Monoxide (CO) works to suffocate someone as a different methodology from helium.

CO does "replace" Oxygen on the hemoglobin subunits that transport oxygen within red blood cells. CO binds to those sites more strongly than Oxygen does, and thus replaces the Oxygen molecules. The red blood cells are locked tightly to the CO and no oxygen can be carried, and the person dies.

Interestingly, if you look at the pulse oximetry reading on CO poisoning patients, which is purportedly a measure of "Oxygen Saturation", it will read near 100%, even though the patient is massively hypoxic and has no oxygen in their blood. That's because the pulse ox does not directly measure oxygen, it measures hemoglobin binding. And since the hemoglobin is bound to CO, the shape of the hemoglobin changes and gives a "false" reading to the pulse ox.

Somewhat relevent to the average person since Apple Watches have pulse ox in them now.

Whereas helium does not bind to hemoglobin. Helium "displaces" oxygen inside the lungs, so that there's no oxygen available in the lungs for the red blood cells to pick up and transport around the body.

Same effect, hypoxia and death, but a difference of replacing versus displacing.

Interesting. So if the CO binds more strongly, then what happens to clear up CO poisoning? Are the blood cells transporting CO to cells, and when they get back to the lungs, they will pick up O2 if available? And what happens to the cells that just got CO given to them?

[Mark Leavy]

And now I know why I get lightheaded when I suck on a helium balloon. I didn't know it replaces oxygen!

Technically helium doesn't "replace" Oxygen, it "displaces" oxygen. The distinction is important in the discussion because of how Carbon Monoxide (CO) works to suffocate someone as a different methodology from helium.

CO does "replace" Oxygen on the hemoglobin subunits that transport oxygen within red blood cells. CO binds to those sites more strongly than Oxygen does, and thus replaces the Oxygen molecules. The red blood cells are locked tightly to the CO and no oxygen can be carried, and the person dies.

Interestingly, if you look at the pulse oximetry reading on CO poisoning patients, which is purportedly a measure of "Oxygen Saturation", it will read near 100%, even though the patient is massively hypoxic and has no oxygen in their blood. That's because the pulse ox does not directly measure oxygen, it measures hemoglobin binding. And since the hemoglobin is bound to CO, the shape of the hemoglobin changes and gives a "false" reading to the pulse ox.

Somewhat relevent to the average person since Apple Watches have pulse ox in them now.

Whereas helium does not bind to hemoglobin. Helium "displaces" oxygen inside the lungs, so that there's no oxygen available in the lungs for the red blood cells to pick up and transport around the body.

Same effect, hypoxia and death, but a difference of replacing versus displacing.

Good stuff, Tom. I didn't know that.

[Mark Leavy]

...
After first trying to talk them out of it and unsuccessfully trying to persuade them to seek counseling, the volunteer would then teach the person how to rent a helium balloon setup from Party City, and then rig the helium tank with a nasal cannula or mask that they could wear to breath helium and die in bed painlessly from hypoxia.
...

Yes, exactly the same mechanism.

But an autopsy can pick up Helium in the tissue. Nitrogen is normal. Just say'in...