The steal is on

[ahhrunforthehills]

Yeah. I suspect charts like this are driving it (fast forward to 7:35):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzum7yzjlbQ

When it comes to fun "irregularity" charts, I like this one:
milw_mod_100.jpg

I suspect Tech might enjoy it also.

Note, I'm not alleging any shenanigans here, just noting that these are the kinds of things that catch my eye.
Fun times! Best wishes to all.

Mark

Wow. Great share! Thanks!

[yankees60]

Anyways, my point is that it is hard to maximize profits in a business while checking the "moral" and "ethical" boxes in business. Those that might dismiss Trump as merely "delusional", I think are severely underestimating the way he operates. I don't view Trump as operating like an individual, I view him operating as a large business

That's a tragically sad analysis and perspective. Burning our morals and ethics before the alter of the god of profits is a seriously dystopian philosophy. I'm not talking about giving people a deal. I'm talking about the golden rule. Most successful business owners and CEOs are sociopaths. That is not a fact that should be exalted as the model upon which to build a healthy society. One can engage in mutually beneficial business. I have worked with honest contractors who were nearly bankrupted by Trump for failure to follow through on his word and pay them for the work they did for him. In our twisted legal system people with deep pockets get away with that. In a more just world those individuals were beaten to death as they were rightfully recognized by the tribe as a scourge and plague to the survival of society.

That is a surprising statement. Not so in my limited experience. I don't know if I have ever actually met anyone who I'd describe as a sociopath. I may have but not have had enough observations of them to come to that conclusion.

Can you name any public business owners or CEOs who we'd all know who you believe should be so described?

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

That is a surprising statement. Not so in my limited experience. I don't know if I have ever actually met anyone who I'd describe as a sociopath. I may have but not have had enough observations of them to come to that conclusion.

Can you name any public business owners or CEOs who we'd all know who you believe should be so described?

Vinny

I don't know anybody famous, but I had a really bright engineer buy this book for me:

The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success

He suggested that I might find it ahem 'relateable'.
It was a good read

Mark

In this engrossing journey into the lives of psychopaths and their infamously crafty behaviors, the renowned psychologist Kevin Dutton reveals that there is a scale of "madness" along which we all sit. Incorporating the latest advances in brain scanning and neuroscience, Dutton demonstrates that the brilliant neurosurgeon who lacks empathy has more in common with a Ted Bundy who kills for pleasure than we may wish to admit, and that a mugger in a dimly lit parking lot may well, in fact, have the same nerveless poise as a titan of industry.

Dutton argues that there are indeed "functional psychopaths" among us—different from their murderous counterparts—who use their detached, unflinching, and charismatic personalities to succeed in mainstream society, and that shockingly, in some fields, the more "psychopathic" people are, the more likely they are to succeed. Dutton deconstructs this often misunderstood diagnosis through bold on-the-ground reporting and original scientific research as he mingles with the criminally insane in a high-security ward, shares a drink with one of the world's most successful con artists, and undergoes transcranial magnetic stimulation to discover firsthand exactly how it feels to see through the eyes of a psychopath.

As Dutton develops his theory that we all possess psychopathic tendencies, he puts forward the argument that society as a whole is more psychopathic than ever: after all, psychopaths tend to be fearless, confident, charming, ruthless, and focused—qualities that are tailor-made for success in the twenty-first century. Provocative at every turn, The Wisdom of Psychopaths is a riveting adventure that reveals that it's our much-maligned dark side that often conceals the trump cards of success.

[yankees60]

That is a surprising statement. Not so in my limited experience. I don't know if I have ever actually met anyone who I'd describe as a sociopath. I may have but not have had enough observations of them to come to that conclusion.

Can you name any public business owners or CEOs who we'd all know who you believe should be so described?

Vinny

I don't know anybody famous, but I had a really bright engineer buy this book for me:

The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success

He suggested that I might find it ahem 'relateable'.
It was a good read

Mark

In this engrossing journey into the lives of psychopaths and their infamously crafty behaviors, the renowned psychologist Kevin Dutton reveals that there is a scale of "madness" along which we all sit. Incorporating the latest advances in brain scanning and neuroscience, Dutton demonstrates that the brilliant neurosurgeon who lacks empathy has more in common with a Ted Bundy who kills for pleasure than we may wish to admit, and that a mugger in a dimly lit parking lot may well, in fact, have the same nerveless poise as a titan of industry.

Dutton argues that there are indeed "functional psychopaths" among us—different from their murderous counterparts—who use their detached, unflinching, and charismatic personalities to succeed in mainstream society, and that shockingly, in some fields, the more "psychopathic" people are, the more likely they are to succeed. Dutton deconstructs this often misunderstood diagnosis through bold on-the-ground reporting and original scientific research as he mingles with the criminally insane in a high-security ward, shares a drink with one of the world's most successful con artists, and undergoes transcranial magnetic stimulation to discover firsthand exactly how it feels to see through the eyes of a psychopath.

As Dutton develops his theory that we all possess psychopathic tendencies, he puts forward the argument that society as a whole is more psychopathic than ever: after all, psychopaths tend to be fearless, confident, charming, ruthless, and focused—qualities that are tailor-made for success in the twenty-first century. Provocative at every turn, The Wisdom of Psychopaths is a riveting adventure that reveals that it's our much-maligned dark side that often conceals the trump cards of success.

Thanks. Just bought a used copy.

Somewhat related I'd read this one in 2014...

Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work

https://www.amazon.com/Snakes-in-Suits- ... l_huc_item

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

Somewhat related I'd read this one in 2014...

Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work

https://www.amazon.com/Snakes-in-Suits- ... l_huc_item

Vinny

Looks good! Just bought a copy. I always enjoy a good How To book

[ahhrunforthehills]

Anyways, my point is that it is hard to maximize profits in a business while checking the "moral" and "ethical" boxes in business. Those that might dismiss Trump as merely "delusional", I think are severely underestimating the way he operates. I don't view Trump as operating like an individual, I view him operating as a large business

That's a tragically sad analysis and perspective. Burning our morals and ethics before the alter of the god of profits is a seriously dystopian philosophy. I'm not talking about giving people a deal. I'm talking about the golden rule. Most successful business owners and CEOs are sociopaths. That is not a fact that should be exalted as the model upon which to build a healthy society. One can engage in mutually beneficial business. I have worked with honest contractors who were nearly bankrupted by Trump for failure to follow through on his word and pay them for the work they did for him. In our twisted legal system people with deep pockets get away with that. In a more just world those individuals were beaten to death as they were rightfully recognized by the tribe as a scourge and plague to the survival of society.

I agree that it is tragically sad. However, I implore you to seriously reflect on why just about EVERY American (both Republican and Democrat) have a blood-right to a superior life over that of someone in a third-world country. I mean SERIOUSLY think about it. Why is a salary in Ethiopia $800/year while the average American is $66,000/year?

How would you feel if an Ethiopian and a Cambodian showed up at your house and tried to force you to split your assets with them?

Do they not deserve it? Is it because we are "special", or "smarter", or more "hard working"?

I have hired people in third-world countries who worked circles around my US workers, were just as smart, and were infinitely more grateful for a job.

This country is not wealthy because we "believe in freedom" or because of our morals & ethics. The fact is that this country was a mountain of natural resources that had an insane geographic advantage. This country is wealthy because we produced weapons during WWII while the rest of the world had their factories bombed. We managed to stay wealthy because we have leveraged our power against the rest of the globe from afar. We protect that leverage with over 800 US military bases worldwide. Remember when Sadam threatened to accept currency other than dollars for oil? How did that work out for him?

The reality is that everyone in this country that is complaining about hunting has been getting fat off of cheeseburgers. If everyone thought it was wrong to hunt, the whole village would starve.

I wish we lived in a better world. I really do. However, life is red in tooth and claw. There is no denying that.

[Tortoise]

That’s very strong evidence of fraud. People have been convicted based on less.

Should be fairly straightforward to go to the wards that reported vote totals ending in "00" and verify all of their ballots, right?

[yankees60]

Anyways, my point is that it is hard to maximize profits in a business while checking the "moral" and "ethical" boxes in business. Those that might dismiss Trump as merely "delusional", I think are severely underestimating the way he operates. I don't view Trump as operating like an individual, I view him operating as a large business

That's a tragically sad analysis and perspective. Burning our morals and ethics before the alter of the god of profits is a seriously dystopian philosophy. I'm not talking about giving people a deal. I'm talking about the golden rule. Most successful business owners and CEOs are sociopaths. That is not a fact that should be exalted as the model upon which to build a healthy society. One can engage in mutually beneficial business. I have worked with honest contractors who were nearly bankrupted by Trump for failure to follow through on his word and pay them for the work they did for him. In our twisted legal system people with deep pockets get away with that. In a more just world those individuals were beaten to death as they were rightfully recognized by the tribe as a scourge and plague to the survival of society.

I agree that it is tragically sad. However, I implore you to seriously reflect on why just about EVERY American (both Republican and Democrat) have a blood-right to a superior life over that of someone in a third-world country. I mean SERIOUSLY think about it. Why is a salary in Ethiopia $800/year while the average American is $66,000/year?

How would you feel if an Ethiopian and a Cambodian showed up at your house and tried to force you to split your assets with them?

Do they not deserve it? Is it because we are "special", or "smarter", or more "hard working"?

I have hired people in third-world countries who worked circles around my US workers, were just as smart, and were infinitely more grateful for a job.

This country is not wealthy because we "believe in freedom" or because of our morals & ethics. The fact is that this country was a mountain of natural resources that had an insane geographic advantage. This country is wealthy because we produced weapons during WWII while the rest of the world had their factories bombed. We managed to stay wealthy because we have leveraged our power against the rest of the globe from afar. We protect that leverage with over 800 US military bases worldwide. Remember when Sadam threatened to accept currency other than dollars for oil? How did that work out for him?

The reality is that everyone in this country that is complaining about hunting has been getting fat off of cheeseburgers. If everyone thought it was wrong to hunt, the whole village would starve.

I wish we lived in a better world. I really do. However, life is red in tooth and claw. There is no denying that.

Agree with all you have to say!

I oftentimes wonder why those people in our country who want to re-distribute the wealth want to only do so among those in our country.

If this IS the only fair and good hearted way to do that why don't we take the human perspective and share our wealth with EVERYONE in the world.

That would be the true test of how much you really do believe in wealth re-distribution. When it forces you to share some of yours.

Every time Elizabeth Warren had one her proposals to further tax the rich, my reaction was to say, if so, then the additional taxation should be set at income levels so that her taxes are also increased.

Or anyone who makes over $100,000. So that many more participate. Not just "the rich".

Vinny

[doodle]

Pretty much the same...both fall under anti social personality disorder.

President Trump is classic example.

[Tortoise]

I was going to sarcastically answer, “No difference, they’re both defined as Donald Trump”, but doodle beat me to it!

[yankees60]

What exactly is the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath? Deviant Behavior 101 didn't fit into my schedule in college.

One can find a lot from "Bing"!

Vinny

https://www.healthline.com/health/menta ... ath#traits

What’s the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?
There’s no clinical difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. These terms are both used to refer to people with ASPD. They’re often used interchangeably.

Some have attempted to distinguish the two by the severity of their symptoms. A sociopath may be someone who only makes minor transgressions that don’t cause serious harm or distress. But a psychopath may be described as someone who’s physically violent or put others in danger. However, when one considers the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria, all of these symptoms can be found in the ASPD category.

Exhibiting frequently selfish behavior is in and of itself not sufficient to diagnose someone as a sociopath. An ASPD diagnosis is only given when symptoms happen for an extended period and don’t change because of punishment or lifestyle changes. Someone who’s selfish may show these behaviors for a short while, but feel bad about them or change their behavior over time or because of punishment.

[doodle]

I would also say many on this board could fall under that designation...including our female members....although it's prevalence is higher in males I think. I'm pretty sure Tom is a sociopath...and Krieg I think has admitted as much...in the sense that he has admitted to not feeling emotion...which is a key indicator. It's not the worst thing in the world...I tend towards many of the traits myself although I am aware of that and try to counter those tendencies. I also think higher IQ is a general feature of sociopaths as well.

[doodle]

I was going to sarcastically answer, “No difference, they’re both defined as Donald Trump”, but doodle beat me to it!

Oh he is definitely a sociopath...but more strongly he has a severe case of narcissism...and I think suffers from delusions

[Tortoise]

Oh he is definitely a sociopath...but more strongly he has a severe case of narcissism...and I think suffers from delusions

Do you consider any other U.S. presidents to have been obvious sociopaths, or is Trump the only one?

[doodle]

Oh he is definitely a sociopath...but more strongly he has a severe case of narcissism...and I think suffers from delusions

Do you consider any other U.S. presidents to have been obvious sociopaths, or is Trump the only one?

Oh, no. I'm sure many had sociopathic tendencies and I'm sure some (I'm not a presidential historian) were true sociopaths. They are probably overrepresented compared to general population among politicians as they are among CEOs. Many sociopaths however you would never know had that tendency as they can feign "normal" socially accepted behavior and emotions. There is also a spectrum.

I thinks Trump's bigger issue is his off the charts narcissism and delusions. He has some deep seated psychological issues probably left over from troubled relationship with father and military schools shit. He has a lot of maladaptive behaviors that make him ineffective in roles that require compromise and cooperation. He would make a great tyrant or dictator...as he is in business...not so much a great president.

I don't think Trumps main issue is

[yankees60]

I would also say many on this board could fall under that designation...including our female members....although it's prevalence is higher in males I think. I'm pretty sure Tom is a sociopath...and Krieg I think has admitted as much...in the sense that he has admitted to not feeling emotion...which is a key indicator. It's not the worst thing in the world...I tend towards many of the traits myself although I am aware of that and try to counter those tendencies. I also think higher IQ is a general feature of sociopaths as well.

I again have to dissent. I don't believe I've knowingly met one in person and online (which includes this forum).

If you read the Snakes in Suits book you will be able to clearly identify a psychopath!

Vinny

[doodle]

I think roughly 3-5% of population could be classified as sociopath...and INTJ personality types...overrepresented on this board share many similar tendencies. I guarantee you, you have met many sociopaths. As for psychopaths...approx. 1% of pop...I'm sure you have met those too.

I worked with many murderers while teaching. People that would sit down and have a nice conversation with me and bring me popcorn and then go home and murder their girlfriend. You'd be surprised how crazy seemingly nice people can be.

[doodle]

I'm going to make a crazy Trump statement and say Id guess around 1/4 of the people who regularly contribute to this forum have sociopathic personalities.

[Xan]

Only a sociopath would make a crazy Trump statement like that! :-)

[doodle]

I have some traits... but I have a guilty conscious and a soft spot for the underdog. I never really succeded in business because I didn't have a killer instinct. I always underpriced myself and generally put my customers interests and well being before my own...

[ahhrunforthehills]

I’ve often half-joked about zombie-apocalypse situations not being unrealistic.

After all, people can catch rabies, become aggressive, bite other people, rinse and repeat.

We are all just animals wearing pants.

[doodle]

For example....am offered to refinish house exterior for 5000....I calculate that I could do it in 100 hours or so. I normally charge 25 an hour. I finished it in a little over 100 hours...made 3200 bucks. Bad businessman...I'm too nice.

[yankees60]

I think roughly 3-5% of population could be classified as sociopath...and INTJ personality types...overrepresented on this board share many similar tendencies. I guarantee you, you have met many sociopaths. As for psychopaths...approx. 1% of pop...I'm sure you have met those too.

I worked with many murderers while teaching. People that would sit down and have a nice conversation with me and bring me popcorn and then go home and murder their girlfriend. You'd be surprised how crazy seemingly nice people can be.

For the record I am clearly an ISTJ....sharing 3 of 4 of the INTJ.

By the way...if you are interested in such things...go here:

https://personalitymax.com/multiple-intelligences-test/

Check off all four tests which will require you to answer 221 questions (took me about 10 minutes and most were easily answered by me. I know myself quite well.). It starts off giving you the Myers Briggs result but then much more. All is in great depth.

Vinny

[ahhrunforthehills]

I got really interested in this stuff a couple years ago. Specifically, I was researching the “dark triad” (Basically, the combination of disorders that make someone a serious danger to society).

What you really want to do is take the MMPI-2.

It is supposed to only be administered by a professional. So you technically cannot buy it. But, there is a place on the internet where you can take it for free, but I don’t want to post a link because it sounds like Pearson will serve a takedown request to this forum pretty quick. So just google “free MMPI-2”. Hint: The domain will end in blogspot.com

Warning: The test will NOT give you ANY good news about yourself. Unlike Myers Briggs (where you get to stroke your own ego), this test is all varying degrees of a bunch of mental disorders. I suspect the reason why a professional psychologist is supposed to administer it is because you will feel like killing yourself when you see the results.

Basically, at best it will tell you that you are neurotic. At worst... you will find out that those voices that tell you to eat your cat are not normal.

[yankees60]

I got really interested in this stuff a couple years ago. Specifically, I was researching the “dark triad” (Basically, the combination of disorders that make someone a serious danger to society).

What you really want to do is take the MMPI-2.

It is supposed to only be administered by a professional. So you technically cannot buy it. But, there is a place on the internet where you can take it for free, but I don’t want to post a link because it sounds like Pearson will serve a takedown request to this forum pretty quick. So just google “free MMPI-2”. Hint: The domain will end in blogspot.com

Warning: The test will NOT give you ANY good news about yourself. Unlike Myers Briggs (where you get to stroke your own ego), this test is all varying degrees of a bunch of mental disorders. I suspect the reason why a professional psychologist is supposed to administer it is because you will feel like killing yourself when you see the results.

Basically, at best it will tell you that you are neurotic. At worst... you will find out that those voices that tell you to eat your cat are not normal.

I just did a quick Bing search and there do not seem to be any obvious web sites to take it for free.

Vinny