The steal is on

[doodle]

Also, does honesty and the truth even matter in politics? I've been told over and over here how Donald's Trump's lying isn't a problem. So why then is honesty here important? Is honesty important or not?

[ahhrunforthehills]

I'm not saying this isn't true...but a lot of shit has been alleged so far with sharpies, ballot drops etc etc. How many times do you get to cry wolf?

Totally agree. I am totally eye-rolling for the vast majority of Libertarian666 posts.

I am not sure if you have every been involved in lawsuits or not. However, in business, when you sue someone the name of the game is to "throw the kitchen sink at them and see what sticks"... no matter how ridiculous the claims are.

This is because you only need just 1 accusation to stick. That is how the legal system is setup in this country. The Plaintiff is given the benefit of the doubt in order to have EACH claim heard for the sake of justice despite how many other claims have already been dismissed.

This is simply how successful businesses operate. I suspect politicians, although many are lawyers, don't want to litigate completely frivolous claims because they could lose credibility with the voters. I think this is fundamentally the difference between Trump and traditional politicians. Being a litigious wack-job undoubtedly works for him in the business world.

[doodle]

I'm not saying this isn't true...but a lot of shit has been alleged so far with sharpies, ballot drops etc etc. How many times do you get to cry wolf?

Totally agree. I am totally eye-rolling for the vast majority of Libertarian666 posts.

I am not sure if you have every been involved in lawsuits or not. However, in business, when you sue someone the name of the game is to "throw the kitchen sink at them and see what sticks"... no matter how ridiculous the claims are.

This is because you only need just 1 accusation to stick. That is how the legal system is setup in this country. The Plaintiff is given the benefit of the doubt in order to have EACH claim heard for the sake of justice despite how many other claims have already been dismissed.

This is simply how successful businesses operate. I suspect politicians, although many are lawyers, don't want to litigate completely frivolous claims because they could lose credibility with the voters. I think this is fundamentally the difference between Trump and traditional politicians. Being a litigious wack-job undoubtedly works for him in the business world.

I did not know that. I guess it's a Good thing his lawyer is Giuliani whose credibilty is already shot anyways.....

[yankees60]

I understand 100% where you are coming from. But keep in mind, you don't need fraud to occur. Even negligence will do it.

Not to point out the obvious... but USPS is completely unreliable.

I have mailed hundreds of thousands pieces of mail over the past decade. I have had first-class mail returned to me (i.e. "Return to Sender)... 8 years later. Crazy.

It boggles my mind how much mail never actually reaches its destination. I literally used to go to the post office with a printout of postal regulations because the people there do not know how to do their jobs (even the managers).

In fact, without getting into specifics, there are a lot of businesses that know how to leverage USPS's laziness (i.e. knowing they will reliably cut-corners 100% of the time) to their advantage.

Allowing USPS workers to be involved in an election (to the extent that it could change an election outcome) is begging for cases of negligence. Because of covid, the USPS has a ENORMOUS role in this election. That is a liability for Biden as these investigations go forward.

I honestly have had the exact opposite experience with the post office.

Same here!

Disclosure: I was a three time temporary 89 day postal hire for three summers. As a 17, 18, and 23 year old. LONG ago!

Vinny

[yankees60]

I'm not saying this isn't true...but a lot of shit has been alleged so far with sharpies, ballot drops etc etc. How many times do you get to cry wolf?

Totally agree. I am totally eye-rolling for the vast majority of Libertarian666 posts.

I am not sure if you have every been involved in lawsuits or not. However, in business, when you sue someone the name of the game is to "throw the kitchen sink at them and see what sticks"... no matter how ridiculous the claims are.

This is because you only need just 1 accusation to stick. That is how the legal system is setup in this country. The Plaintiff is given the benefit of the doubt in order to have EACH claim heard for the sake of justice despite how many other claims have already been dismissed.

This is simply how successful businesses operate. I suspect politicians, although many are lawyers, don't want to litigate completely frivolous claims because they could lose credibility with the voters. I think this is fundamentally the difference between Trump and traditional politicians. Being a litigious wack-job undoubtedly works for him in the business world.

I have worked with many, many businesses and organizations. For almost all of them being are rarely ever engaged in a lawsuit and something to be avoided.

In my tiny accounting business I was involved in one. Took someone to small claims court for unpaid fees. Won the judgement but the judgement was essentially toothless.

Vinny

[ahhrunforthehills]

I'm not saying this isn't true...but a lot of shit has been alleged so far with sharpies, ballot drops etc etc. How many times do you get to cry wolf?

Totally agree. I am totally eye-rolling for the vast majority of Libertarian666 posts.

I am not sure if you have every been involved in lawsuits or not. However, in business, when you sue someone the name of the game is to "throw the kitchen sink at them and see what sticks"... no matter how ridiculous the claims are.

This is because you only need just 1 accusation to stick. That is how the legal system is setup in this country. The Plaintiff is given the benefit of the doubt in order to have EACH claim heard for the sake of justice despite how many other claims have already been dismissed.

This is simply how successful businesses operate. I suspect politicians, although many are lawyers, don't want to litigate completely frivolous claims because they could lose credibility with the voters. I think this is fundamentally the difference between Trump and traditional politicians. Being a litigious wack-job undoubtedly works for him in the business world.

I did not know that. I guess it's a Good thing his lawyer is Giuliani whose credibilty is already shot anyways.....

Here is the crazy part... anything that isn't tossed out of court immediately (most claims survive because the burden of proof is super-low in the beginning) eventually goes to "discovery". Discovery is REALLY far reaching and brings a lot more to the surface. When you sue someone, it is like an iceburg... you can barely even see the alleged behavior above the water. Discovery exposes all kinds of bad behavior related to each and every "ridiculous" claim. In some ways it is like digging around in someone's diary.

This is becoming even more significant in the modern age because everything is electronic (emails, surveillance, texts, etc.). All of these hard-drives basically get handed over to a 3rd party forensics team under court order. Then the lawsuit gets "amended" to include the extra dirt that they uncover.

It is not uncommon to have a lawsuit originally start as something small and ridiculous that evolves into a huge case with huge damages and/or criminal sentencing.

Trump is an extremely litigious person. He is playing chess right now.

[doodle]

I'm not saying this isn't true...but a lot of shit has been alleged so far with sharpies, ballot drops etc etc. How many times do you get to cry wolf?

Totally agree. I am totally eye-rolling for the vast majority of Libertarian666 posts.

I am not sure if you have every been involved in lawsuits or not. However, in business, when you sue someone the name of the game is to "throw the kitchen sink at them and see what sticks"... no matter how ridiculous the claims are.

This is because you only need just 1 accusation to stick. That is how the legal system is setup in this country. The Plaintiff is given the benefit of the doubt in order to have EACH claim heard for the sake of justice despite how many other claims have already been dismissed.

This is simply how successful businesses operate. I suspect politicians, although many are lawyers, don't want to litigate completely frivolous claims because they could lose credibility with the voters. I think this is fundamentally the difference between Trump and traditional politicians. Being a litigious wack-job undoubtedly works for him in the business world.

I did not know that. I guess it's a Good thing his lawyer is Giuliani whose credibilty is already shot anyways.....

Here is the crazy part... anything that isn't tossed out of court immediately (most claims survive because the burden of proof is super-low in the beginning) eventually goes to "discovery". Discovery is REALLY far reaching and brings a lot more to the surface. When you sue someone, it is like an iceburg... you can barely even see the alleged behavior above the water. Discovery exposes all kinds of bad behavior related to each and every "ridiculous" claim. In some ways it is like digging around in someone's diary.

This is becoming even more significant in the modern age because everything is electronic (emails, surveillance, texts, etc.). All of these hard-drives basically get handed over to a 3rd party forensics team under court order. Then the lawsuit gets "amended" to include the extra dirt that they uncover.

It is not uncommon to have a lawsuit originally start as something small and ridiculous that evolves into a huge case with huge damages and/or criminal sentencing.

Trump is an extremely litigious person. He is playing chess right now.

And with his big ass mouth he backed himself into a corner. He promised victory and came up short. In boxing and the UFC trash talkers like Connor McGregor have the fortitude and guts to acknowledge defeat. Trumps fragile narcissistic ego can't handle it though. No matter the evidence he will go to the grave believing he was cheated. He is a delusional and deeply unstable individual...he has no business being president. He is out of his league.

[Xan]

Why in the world is the Pennsylvania Lt Gov going on TV and talking about how he'll deliver his state's votes to Biden?

He refuses to say when the counting might be finished (that counting being his only actual job at the moment), but is happy to look at "previous modeling" to pull a prediction out of his behind.

What does this achieve other than to make people think it's rigged? Why say anything?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... BlogHeader

[doodle]

He didn't say that.

[doodle]

He said based on the math it appears as if those votes are trending in Bidens direction. He should shut up and count votes though.

[doodle]

Are those ballot counts not being overseen by both republican and democrat verifiers?

Officials should not be involved in prognosticating....that goes for Mr. dumbass president who declared victory late Tuesday.

[doodle]

Biden might very well take georgia as well...that race is super tight now

[Xan]

Are those ballot counts not being overseen by both republican and democrat verifiers?

Officials should not be involved in prognosticating....that goes for Mr. dumbass president who declared victory late Tuesday.

I believe the lawsuit in Michigan is about Republican overseers not being allowed to be present when many D votes were uncovered.

[Xan]

Biden might very well take georgia as well...that race is super tight now

What's really close in Georgia is that Senate race. Right now the (R) leader has "50.00%" of the vote. If he drops below 50, then it's a runoff. That would be two Georgia Senate runoffs at the same time which would determine control of the Senate.

[Cortopassi]

Biden might very well take georgia as well...that race is super tight now

What's really close in Georgia is that Senate race. Right now the (R) leader has "50.00%" of the vote. If he drops below 50, then it's a runoff. That would be two Georgia Senate runoffs at the same time which would determine control of the Senate.

That's a runoff between the same two people, with potentially the same results?

[doodle]

Boy! Our liberal lizard overlords really crafted a nail biting election for us! This is better than the Superbowl, olymlics and Christmas rolled into one! They are amazing geniuses for being such incompetent buffoons!!!

[doodle]

That debate clip of ossoff and perdue though was rich. Ossoff dug in like a wolverine.

[Xan]

Biden might very well take georgia as well...that race is super tight now

What's really close in Georgia is that Senate race. Right now the (R) leader has "50.00%" of the vote. If he drops below 50, then it's a runoff. That would be two Georgia Senate runoffs at the same time which would determine control of the Senate.

That's a runoff between the same two people, with potentially the same results?

If the leader didn't get 50%, then the runoff would be the same race, minus the Libertarian. The get-out-the-vote effort on both sides would be unimaginable with two Senate runoffs at the same time. Who knows what would happen.

[ahhrunforthehills]

I'm not saying this isn't true...but a lot of shit has been alleged so far with sharpies, ballot drops etc etc. How many times do you get to cry wolf?

Totally agree. I am totally eye-rolling for the vast majority of Libertarian666 posts.

I am not sure if you have every been involved in lawsuits or not. However, in business, when you sue someone the name of the game is to "throw the kitchen sink at them and see what sticks"... no matter how ridiculous the claims are.

This is because you only need just 1 accusation to stick. That is how the legal system is setup in this country. The Plaintiff is given the benefit of the doubt in order to have EACH claim heard for the sake of justice despite how many other claims have already been dismissed.

This is simply how successful businesses operate. I suspect politicians, although many are lawyers, don't want to litigate completely frivolous claims because they could lose credibility with the voters. I think this is fundamentally the difference between Trump and traditional politicians. Being a litigious wack-job undoubtedly works for him in the business world.

I have worked with many, many businesses and organizations. For almost all of them being are rarely ever engaged in a lawsuit and something to be avoided.

In my tiny accounting business I was involved in one. Took someone to small claims court for unpaid fees. Won the judgement but the judgement was essentially toothless.

Vinny

I agree with this. Most business want to avoid lawsuits at all costs. The first time my business was ever sued I was SOOOOO SCARED! I would have given anything just to make the person drop their case. My lawyer joked with me that everyone feels that way until they lose their "lawsuit virginity".

Fast-forward, I counter-sued, uncovered a ton of dirt, and ultimately devastated my opponent's business.

Let's just say that the next lawsuit didn't bother me as much... in fact, I started to enjoy it.

If I went from scared out of my mind to enjoying the process within just a handful of cases, I can only imagine how much Trump is in his element with over 3,500+ lawsuits.

And with his big ass mouth he backed himself into a corner. He promised victory and came up short. In boxing and the UFC trash talkers like Connor McGregor have the fortitude and guts to acknowledge defeat. Trumps fragile narcissistic ego can't handle it though. No matter the evidence he will go to the grave believing he was cheated. He is a delusional and deeply unstable individual...he has no business being president. He is out of his league.

I think Trump might be more complicated than that. I know he certainly has the appearance of a fragile narcissistic ego, but people would come to that same conclusion if he was simply engaging in "puffery".

"In law, puffery is a promotional statement or claim that expresses subjective rather than objective views, which no "reasonable person" would take literally."

In fact, legally, you can use "puffery" as a defense against false-advertising claims.

I understand your desire to hate Trump for his personality. I agree he is an @ss-clown. He appears to have no shame. However, IMHO I think people do not see the mechanics and strategy of why he says what he says.

From a social perspective, being "litigious" and an "egomaniac" will make everyone hate you. If we were debating on whether or not we should go to a birthday party from somebody like Trump we would be saying "why bother, he will just brag about himself the whole time, he might try to sue us for something ridiculous, he is a compulsive liar, and he will probably get into a fight with the magician for refusing to pay his bill."

But these are all EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE tools that businesses use. My business has used lawsuits for advantage, refused to pay bills for advantage, and engaged in puffery for advantage. Is that "nice"? Of course not. Is it "moral" or "ethical"? Now we are getting to the underlying question!

Some business owners are 100% profit driven. Some allow their morals and ethics to erode their profits. Typically, one gets happier investors and less happy employees. The other gets less happy investors and happier employees.

One is not more "right" than the other. My wife hates to hear my business stories. She thinks I should just give everyone a deal. But she also doesn't protest by not spending the profits. It is like people that eat cheeseburgers that protest against hunters. My wife buys "Honest" brand products, "Vitamin Water", and "Smart Water"... Vitamin Water has basically no vitamins, Smart Water has basically no electrolytes, and "Honest" is a lot less honest then people think. However, she is under the illusion that businesses operate like people. That they operate under the same moral compass as individuals do. Large businesses typically do not.

Anyways, my point is that it is hard to maximize profits in a business while checking the "moral" and "ethical" boxes in business. Those that might dismiss Trump as merely "delusional", I think are severely underestimating the way he operates. I don't view Trump as operating like an individual, I view him operating as a large business.

Does that make a good president? Hard to say... I haven't seen a president yet that I liked once I started to peel back the onion.

[ahhrunforthehills]

Are those ballot counts not being overseen by both republican and democrat verifiers?

Officials should not be involved in prognosticating....that goes for Mr. dumbass president who declared victory late Tuesday.

I believe the lawsuit in Michigan is about Republican overseers not being allowed to be present when many D votes were uncovered.

Yeah. I suspect charts like this are driving it (fast forward to 7:35):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzum7yzjlbQ

[Cortopassi]

I truly wonder in whatever number of years when Trump passes, what the funeral will be like and who will and will not attend.

[ahhrunforthehills]

I truly wonder in whatever number of years when Trump passes, what the funeral will be like and who will and will not attend.

Probably a lot. It would be a great place to network.

[Mark Leavy]

Yeah. I suspect charts like this are driving it (fast forward to 7:35):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzum7yzjlbQ

When it comes to fun "irregularity" charts, I like this one:

milw_mod_100.jpg (161.69 KiB) Viewed 6416 times

I suspect Tech might enjoy it also.

Note, I'm not alleging any shenanigans here, just noting that these are the kinds of things that catch my eye.
Fun times! Best wishes to all.

Mark

[doodle]

Anyways, my point is that it is hard to maximize profits in a business while checking the "moral" and "ethical" boxes in business. Those that might dismiss Trump as merely "delusional", I think are severely underestimating the way he operates. I don't view Trump as operating like an individual, I view him operating as a large business

That's a tragically sad analysis and perspective. Burning our morals and ethics before the alter of the god of profits is a seriously dystopian philosophy. I'm not talking about giving people a deal. I'm talking about the golden rule. Most successful business owners and CEOs are sociopaths. That is not a fact that should be exalted as the model upon which to build a healthy society. One can engage in mutually beneficial business. I have worked with honest contractors who were nearly bankrupted by Trump for failure to follow through on his word and pay them for the work they did for him. In our twisted legal system people with deep pockets get away with that. In a more just world those individuals were beaten to death as they were rightfully recognized by the tribe as a scourge and plague to the survival of society.

[yankees60]

I truly wonder in whatever number of years when Trump passes, what the funeral will be like and who will and will not attend.

Probably a lot. It would be a great place to network.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vinny