VP Debate

[Kbg]

How refreshing, adults in the room.

[doodle]

No kidding, I'm not a Pence fan (mostly on account of his religious stance) but I could quietly live with him as President. Why is it impossible to have a resolute individual with plans that run counter to political norms express his ideas in a calm measured way? I disagree that a personality like Trump's is beneficial to advancing an agenda. It doesn't win me over to see lunatic tweet storms in all caps at 2 oclock in the morning.

i am not sure that it wins anybody over ..ever.. but when you see the endless apoplexy it causes the unthinking radicals its hard not to grow to find it amusing after a while.... the ideal candidate would have a rand/ron Paul ability to understand and explain the political philosophy of their policy, paired with the verbal brawler, hard trolling, push back against the constant onslaught, tough side of trump...

[Tortoise]

Harris just dodged Pence’s repeated question about whether she and Biden plan to pack the Supreme Court.

Not good for the Dems.

[doodle]

Harris is losing this debate. Honestly, you put another republican on the ticket with pence (other than Graham or McConnell) i probably vote republican this year.

[Tortoise]

Harris also just repeated the Fine People Hoax.

[doodle]

What a sorry choice. The Democrats really suck as a party. They actually had some inspiring individuals in the primary...Gabbard, Buttigieg, Sandars....and this is what we get...soggy porridge.

[pp4me]

What a sorry choice. The Democrats really suck as a party. They actually had some inspiring individuals in the primary...Gabbard, Buttigieg, Sandars....and this is what we get...soggy porridge.

I think this is a perfect example of why it's wrong to let the presidential candidate pick the VP. I don't believe it always worked that way and in the past I think there were even presidents and vice-presidents of different parties. I can see how that might be problematic but why not let the whole party pick the VP in the primaries? If Harris becomes president she will have gotten there with only 2% of the votes in the primaries before she dropped out. Something is very wrong with that IMO.

[WiseOne]

This was a much better debate than the presidential one, for sure. In that I was able to watch the whole thing without wanting to run away.

I thought Pence did very well, in fact I came off the debate liking him a lot more than I did before. I also had been squeamish about his religious right take on things. He came across as a thoughtful, calm person with well considered views and a respectful way of presenting them even while being highly critical. We sure need more of that in Washington!!

Harris was a bit of a mess, I thought. She made some very good points, but on several of her responses she wandered off track and was not very convincing. At times she looked nervous and anxious. Also she had this nasty, sarcastic way of answering Pence that I REALLY hate dealing with on a personal level. It's one thing to be strong and aggressive, but that was more passive aggressive and "mean-girl" than anything. I can see why she did not shine during the primaries. And, that suggests to me that she'd have just as many problems leading a group of people to a consensus as Trump - not good at all!

[GT]

Pence most have done ok

One of the big wins for Biden was fly swatter sales - Per CBS

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp

Oh and Pence was accused of mansplaining

ABC's George Stephanopoulos:

"A lot of people were noticing some mansplaining going on tonight."

[GT]

This was a much better debate than the presidential one, for sure. In that I was able to watch the whole thing without wanting to run away.

I thought Pence did very well, in fact I came off the debate liking him a lot more than I did before. I also had been squeamish about his religious right take on things. He came across as a thoughtful, calm person with well considered views and a respectful way of presenting them even while being highly critical. We sure need more of that in Washington!!

]Harris was a bit of a mess, I thought. She made some very good points, but on several of her responses she wandered off track and was not very convincing. At times she looked nervous and anxious. Also she had this nasty, sarcastic way of answering Pence that I REALLY hate dealing with on a personal level. It's one thing to be strong and aggressive, but that was more passive aggressive and "mean-girl" than anything. I can see why she did not shine during the primaries. And, that suggests to me that she'd have just as many problems leading a group of people to a consensus as Trump - not good at all

I think you are spot on - that is why MSM is trolling Pence for having a fly land on his head - versus showing clips of Harris out debating him

[glennds]

My goodness, Pence is a skilled debater. Even if his techniques are disingenuous, they are effective nonetheless.
For example, I don't think there was a single case where he answered the moderator's question. Often, experienced debaters will at least touch the question and then deflect to a related but different subject that might be more advantageous. But Pence can drive right by the question without even so much as a look out the window.

The first question directed at him was for him to explain why the rate of Covid death as a % of the population in the US is higher than any other industrialized country. His answer was to talk about how foresighted President Trump was for shutting down travel from China, and how marvelous the sacrifices of the American people have been.

His other technique is to talk without inflection and without stopping, well past his time cutoff, and without any regard to the moderator's attempt to interrupt him. He can do this effectively with reporters too. He doesn't come off as rude because he hasn't raised his voice, and can pull of the impression that he hasn't heard the moderator or reporter attempting to redirect him.

The brilliance in the combination of these two techniques is that he can basically ignore the moderator's questions and answer the questions he would wish her to ask, and as he talks on and on, the public will basically forget what was originally asked because he's talked long enough to break the mental connection.
I saw him do this in one of the WH Coronavirus pressers where Trump himself marveled at it. A reporter asked a question, and Pence droned on about inspiration at Trump's leadership, the power of private industry saving the day, etc. Trump comes to the mic and says "Mike, that was amazing, you talked for five minutes non-stop and never even touched his question", and everyone in the room got a chuckle.

Whether this is good or bad depends on your preference, but I'm only saying as a matter of debate technique, what he does is very effective and his skill at implementing it is deft to say the least.

[Smith1776]

Is it bad that I keep reading this thread title as “variable portfolio debate”?

[Tortoise]

Smithers: "Oh, cool -- an actual investment thread for a change!"

<Starts reading, realizes it's yet another political thread>

[yankees60]

My goodness, Pence is a skilled debater. Even if his techniques are disingenuous, they are effective nonetheless.
For example, I don't think there was a single case where he answered the moderator's question. Often, experienced debaters will at least touch the question and then deflect to a related but different subject that might be more advantageous. But Pence can drive right by the question without even so much as a look out the window.

The first question directed at him was for him to explain why the rate of Covid death as a % of the population in the US is higher than any other industrialized country. His answer was to talk about how foresighted President Trump was for shutting down travel from China, and how marvelous the sacrifices of the American people have been.

His other technique is to talk without inflection and without stopping, well past his time cutoff, and without any regard to the moderator's attempt to interrupt him. He can do this effectively with reporters too. He doesn't come off as rude because he hasn't raised his voice, and can pull of the impression that he hasn't heard the moderator or reporter attempting to redirect him.

The brilliance in the combination of these two techniques is that he can basically ignore the moderator's questions and answer the questions he would wish her to ask, and as he talks on and on, the public will basically forget what was originally asked because he's talked long enough to break the mental connection.
I saw him do this in one of the WH Coronavirus pressers where Trump himself marveled at it. A reporter asked a question, and Pence droned on about inspiration at Trump's leadership, the power of private industry saving the day, etc. Trump comes to the mic and says "Mike, that was amazing, you talked for five minutes non-stop and never even touched his question", and everyone in the room got a chuckle.

Whether this is good or bad depends on your preference, but I'm only saying as a matter of debate technique, what he does is very effective and his skill at implementing it is deft to say the least.

Pence was a champion debate in high school. He won the debate where you are just told you topic and then given five minutes to debate. He was also a highly successful talk radio host.

I also believe that in his role as vice president he daily teaches the country by demonstrating what the word obsequious means. He's a superstar, first ballot Hall of Famer at that!

Vinny

[yankees60]

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[Kbg]

Amen on the political threads...getting burned out on them. The last really good thread on the board was the Dalio bonds thread.

And I will call myself out since I started this one...bad kbg.

[Smith1776]

I don't mind the political threads so long as they don't overwhelm the visibility of the non-political threads. I'd say we're just under that threshold currently. The frequency in which they are created isn't TOO bad, but it's getting up there.

[yankees60]

Finally getting to hear the debate tonight. On my second listen but not listening as undistractedly this time as the first time.

They both fail my time / money principle.

I have a belief that if people cannot manage time then I don't want to trust them with my money because I believe people who are poor time managers are generally also going to be poor money managers. If you are habitually late then I'm considering you both a poor time and money manager. I'm seeing both of them going over the allotted times to give answers. But, in this case, on top of me considering them poor time / money managers, I'm also considering them to be disrespectful. Disrespectful of the moderator who is trying her best to go her job.

Does Pence think that his message is enhanced when three times at the end of so many of them the moderator is saying, "Mr. Vice President! Mr. Vice President!"

He comes across as quite entitled by constantly refusing to heed her pleas.

He seemed to do it far more often than Harris.

I came into this debate not really liking her that much. She's come across far more likable to me after mostly listening to and sometimes looking at her during this debate.

Does anyone else but me notice how often Pence invokes, "the American People"?

Vinny