Eight more years?

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glennds
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Eight more years?

Post by glennds » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 am

At a speech in Wisconsin on August 17th, Trump suggested that after four more years, he will go for another four years, on the basis that they spied on his campaign and therefore his administration should get a re-do of four years.

I did not learn this from the mainstream media, I refer to a verbatim speech transcript which you can see here (go to 22:20 of the transcript): https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/do ... -august-17. It's helpful that Trump speaks in clear straightforward language so I think what he is saying is self-explanatory.

What does this mean? Is what he's suggesting in conflict with the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution? Or does the alleged fact that his campaign was spied upon create an exception to the 22nd Amendment such that he can serve an additional term?

Are you supportive of his suggestion in principle?
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:24 am

C’mon man...
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by shekels » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:41 pm

glennds wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 am
At a speech in Wisconsin on August 17th, Trump suggested that after four more years, he will go for another four years, on the basis that they spied on his campaign and therefore his administration should get a re-do of four years.

I did not learn this from the mainstream media, I refer to a verbatim speech transcript which you can see here (go to 22:20 of the transcript): https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/do ... -august-17. It's helpful that Trump speaks in clear straightforward language so I think what he is saying is self-explanatory.

What does this mean? Is what he's suggesting in conflict with the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution? Or does the alleged fact that his campaign was spied upon create an exception to the 22nd Amendment such that he can serve an additional term?

Are you supportive of his suggestion in principle?
Have we lost our sense of humor?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm

Ha ha ha ha very funny. What a funny guy.

Problem is there is a complete loss of understanding whether he is lying or telling the truth or joking or being serious with him.

His words can be spun in any freaking direction as required by supporters or detractors.

What does that make him? Hopefully after Jan 20, it makes him a real estate guy again and not president.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by shekels » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Ha ha ha ha very funny. What a funny guy.

Problem is there is a complete loss of understanding whether he is lying or telling the truth or joking or being serious with him.

His words can be spun in any freaking direction as required by supporters or detractors.

What does that make him? Hopefully after Jan 20, it makes him a real estate guy again and not president.
Yep,
On Jan 20 It makes him, President Trump being sworn in for his second term.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:20 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Ha ha ha ha very funny. What a funny guy.

Problem is there is a complete loss of understanding whether he is lying or telling the truth or joking or being serious with him.

His words can be spun in any freaking direction as required by supporters or detractors.

What does that make him? Hopefully after Jan 20, it makes him a real estate guy again and not president.
I think it makes him a clown!

One of the the prime attributes of a great leader (or even a good leader) is the ability to communicate. Communication does not just entail one saying something. It also requires the recipient of your communication being clear on what your message is.

Therefore, I'd have to grade him as F in the subject of Leadership Communication.

He does, though, still retain his A+ grader as an Entertainer. But I don't think most people who voted for him were looking for him to be the country's leading entertainer.

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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:35 pm

shekels wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Ha ha ha ha very funny. What a funny guy.

Problem is there is a complete loss of understanding whether he is lying or telling the truth or joking or being serious with him.

His words can be spun in any freaking direction as required by supporters or detractors.

What does that make him? Hopefully after Jan 20, it makes him a real estate guy again and not president.
Yep,
On Jan 20 It makes him, President Trump being sworn in for his second term.
Not out of the realm of possibility for sure. Either way, whoever wins, going to be interesting.

Back to words matter, though. It was fun, entertaining even, when he was a candidate, how he'd just be the every man, sitting at a bar railing on everything kind of talk that he did. Like your crazy uncle. Enough so that I voted for him.

4 years later though, I've had enough. Even if it was Hillary running again, I'd vote for her. That's how much his demeanor and attitude toward people who don't fall in line have affected me. Call it TDS? Sure. I'd actually call it being a guy with a good heart.

Michael Cohen, yet another in the incredibly long list of people who have written a book, or eventually broke ranks and spoke out against him -- I don't think there's really anyone left who thinks Trump is a nice guy. At some point, are these all losers? Disloyal? Suddenly see the light people? At some point there is a mass effect where any reasonable person has to go, hmmm, maybe it's Trump, and not these dozens of others?

I know, he doesn't have to be nice. But if he was able to dial it back from 11 to maybe a 6 or 7 on the "I'm an asshole, I know everything, you're stupid if you don't agree with me" factor, he'd win in a landslide.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Tortoise » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:39 pm

Trump's language is fairly simple and plain. He doesn't use a lot of big, fancy words. So the meaning of his messages is typically easy to comprehend.

I think most people (including left-leaning ones) understand that Trump was joking when he suggested he should get a "redo" of his first four years due to the spying scandal. The audience chuckles as he says it. It's humor.

Many people don't approve of Trump's sense of humor. But that's different from not understanding what he's trying to communicate.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 pm

Here's the video, queued to the relevant part of the speech: https://youtu.be/V5CHERi6oDU?t=1025

It was a joke and this is really an absurd discussion. Scott Adams was right when he said that about a third of the general public doesn't even recognize humor when they see it.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by glennds » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:59 pm

Okay, got it. I didn't realize it was a joke. Mea culpa.

I heard him say numerous times that he doesn't tell jokes. But now I'm thinking those might have been jokes.
In other words he was kidding about not telling jokes.
I just can't tell the difference between jokes, aspirational comments, alternative facts, locker room talk, and what he really thinks.

Maybe it's a Jedi mind trick, he means exactly whatever you want him to mean in your own mind. It's all so confusing.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:01 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 pm
Here's the video, queued to the relevant part of the speech: https://youtu.be/V5CHERi6oDU?t=1025

It was a joke and this is really an absurd discussion. Scott Adams was right when he said that about a third of the general public doesn't even recognize humor when they see it.
It was a joke, I agree. You can see when he shifts from teleprompter to off the cuff.

It doesn't change, for me, the larger issue of he's just an old man with a mean bully streak and we should be able to do better than him (or Biden) as president.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:07 pm

glennds wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:59 pm
Maybe it's a Jedi mind trick, he means exactly whatever you want him to mean in your own mind.
You hit it on the head there. 100%. I will hear my dad's interpretation of something Trump said, and I got it 180 degrees different.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:35 pm
shekels wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Ha ha ha ha very funny. What a funny guy.

Problem is there is a complete loss of understanding whether he is lying or telling the truth or joking or being serious with him.

His words can be spun in any freaking direction as required by supporters or detractors.

What does that make him? Hopefully after Jan 20, it makes him a real estate guy again and not president.
Yep,
On Jan 20 It makes him, President Trump being sworn in for his second term.
Not out of the realm of possibility for sure. Either way, whoever wins, going to be interesting.

Back to words matter, though. It was fun, entertaining even, when he was a candidate, how he'd just be the every man, sitting at a bar railing on everything kind of talk that he did. Like your crazy uncle. Enough so that I voted for him.

4 years later though, I've had enough. Even if it was Hillary running again, I'd vote for her. That's how much his demeanor and attitude toward people who don't fall in line have affected me. Call it TDS? Sure. I'd actually call it being a guy with a good heart.

Michael Cohen, yet another in the incredibly long list of people who have written a book, or eventually broke ranks and spoke out against him -- I don't think there's really anyone left who thinks Trump is a nice guy. At some point, are these all losers? Disloyal? Suddenly see the light people? At some point there is a mass effect where any reasonable person has to go, hmmm, maybe it's Trump, and not these dozens of others?

I know, he doesn't have to be nice. But if he was able to dial it back from 11 to maybe a 6 or 7 on the "I'm an asshole, I know everything, you're stupid if you don't agree with me" factor, he'd win in a landslide.
From Michael Cohen's book:

"There I was, watching myself on TV, the Michael Cohen everyone had an opinion about: liar, snitch, idiot, bully, sycophant, convicted criminal, the least reliable narrator on the planet.

So, please permit me to reintroduce myself in these pages. The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that whatever you may have heard or thought about me, you don’t know me or my story or the Donald Trump that I know. For more than a decade, I was Trump’s first call every morning and his last call every night. I was in and out of Trump’s office on the 26th floor of the Trump Tower as many as fifty times a day, tending to his every demand. Our cell phones had the same address books, our contacts so entwined, overlapping, and intimate that part of my job was to deal with the endless queries and requests, however large or small, from Trump’s countless rich and famous acquaintances. I called any and all of the people he spoke to, most often on his behalf as his attorney and emissary, and everyone knew that when I spoke to them, it was as good as if they were talking directly to Trump.

Apart from his wife and children, I knew Trump better than anyone else did. In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did, because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man."

Vinny
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:19 pm

In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did, because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man."
So he's a Clinton?
:)
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:31 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:19 pm
In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did, because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man."
So he's a Clinton?
:)
I know you are not being totally serious but....about the only thing they share is their unfaithfulness to their wife. But, as usual, I'm sure Trump was the "best" in that department.

Trump is totally motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ while Clinton was never. That was why Hillary became so money hungry because after he lost his second run for governor they had nothing financially and she never wanted to go through that again.

Clinton was oftentimes referred to as the first "black" president.

I don't recall newspaper stories documenting his telling lies about anything except for whatever was regarding Monica. And, to counter you (or anyone else) saying that was because the liberal media was not going to go after him...I'd counter by saying they went after him relentlessly regarding all things Monica.

And, in spite of his marital infidelities, he did remain married to one woman. By all accounts he was a great parent (with Hillary) in raising Chelsea.

I don't recall former people in his administration telling us all how bad a president he was. Also don't recall his relatives, who know him best, telling the world of what a terrible person he was / is.


He and Trump are two totally different people.

Vinny
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:01 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 pm
Here's the video, queued to the relevant part of the speech: https://youtu.be/V5CHERi6oDU?t=1025

It was a joke and this is really an absurd discussion. Scott Adams was right when he said that about a third of the general public doesn't even recognize humor when they see it.
It was a joke, I agree. You can see when he shifts from teleprompter to off the cuff.

It doesn't change, for me, the larger issue of he's just an old man with a mean bully streak and we should be able to do better than him (or Biden) as president.
Let's suppose you are right and we should be able to do better than him or Biden.
But that's not the choice facing us right now.
Right now we have a choice between him and Biden.

I'm not aware of any argument for the position that Biden would be an improvement AS PRESIDENT.
Not as a next-door neighbor, a pastor, or even as a local politician.
As PRESIDENT.
That's a very difficult job with a lot of power. It requires someone who can get things accomplished, or at the very least doesn't get us into any new wars or make other blunders that cause major harm to the US.

Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by shekels » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:40 am

shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
Being presidential. Calling for calm and healing, vs. throwing out red meat and panic. Give me a Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" empathetic president right now and I truly believe a lot of this can be stopped.

It is NOT directly Trump's fault. But he is doing NOTHING to try to lower the temperature.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by shekels » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:47 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:40 am
shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
Being presidential. Calling for calm and healing, vs. throwing out red meat and panic. Give me a Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" empathetic president right now and I truly believe a lot of this can be stopped.

It is NOT directly Trump's fault. But he is doing NOTHING to try to lower the temperature.
So using "Feelings" as a tool to calm the masses,that wants to overthrow/dismantle the system works for you.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:03 pm

shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:47 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:40 am
shekels wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:35 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:16 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:44 am
Can you make an argument that Biden is more suitable for that job than someone who has already held that job for 4 years and hasn't gotten us into any new wars or made any other major blunders of similar magnitude?
Not convincingly.

Trump will be judged at this point on two or three things:

--The coronavirus response. This may crush him (or help him) depending on where cases and deaths are as we get nearer Nov 3rd. The optics for him work with one segment -- that Michigan rally yesterday I was surprised people's heads did not explode on CNN covering it with the lack of masks and distancing.

--His demeanor. When people step into that voting booth, the somewhat undecideds, what's going through their mind -- do I want 4 more years of twitter, I think. And that may work against him at the last minute decision point.

--The rioting. I call that a toss up. Easy to say its democrats fault. Also easy to say it is under his leadership (or lack thereof)
So you are OK with the Federal Government/Trump going in to stop the Riots?
Insurrection Act

If you are not OK with Trump ending the Riots by force,You must be for allowing the State Governments to end the riots.
How is it trump fault again?
Being presidential. Calling for calm and healing, vs. throwing out red meat and panic. Give me a Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" empathetic president right now and I truly believe a lot of this can be stopped.

It is NOT directly Trump's fault. But he is doing NOTHING to try to lower the temperature.
So using "Feelings" as a tool to calm the masses,that wants to overthrow/dismantle the system works for you.
We obviously are not going to agree on this so we can agree to disagree.

I believe part of the power of the presidency should be used to help reduce divisions. We are a melting pot of a lot of different views. We can try harder to get along, and getting nudged in that direction from the top can't hurt.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:19 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:03 pm
I believe part of the power of the presidency should be used to help reduce divisions. We are a melting pot of a lot of different views. We can try harder to get along, and getting nudged in that direction from the top can't hurt.
Mayor Ted Wheeler has been telling Portland's rioters (to paraphrase) "I feel your pain" the entire time they've been rioting, yet they still demanded his resignation, formed a mob outside of his condo building, launched fireworks outside of his window, and tried to set the building on fire.

That being the case, do you really think Trump would do any better than Wheeler by pleading with the rioters to play nice and hold hands? Do you think the BLM/Antifa rioters are sitting around watching CNN with bated breath to see what our country's leaders have to say about the riots?

You can't talk sense into wild animals on the attack. You round them up and put them in cages.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:19 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:03 pm
I believe part of the power of the presidency should be used to help reduce divisions. We are a melting pot of a lot of different views. We can try harder to get along, and getting nudged in that direction from the top can't hurt.
Mayor Ted Wheeler has been telling Portland's rioters (to paraphrase) "I feel your pain" the entire time they've been rioting, yet they still demanded his resignation, formed a mob outside of his condo building, launched fireworks outside of his window, and tried to set the building on fire.

That being the case, do you really think Trump would do any better than Wheeler by pleading with the rioters to play nice and hold hands? Do you think the BLM/Antifa rioters are sitting around watching CNN with bated breath to see what our country's leaders have to say about the riots?

You can't talk sense into wild animals on the attack. You round them up and put them in cages.
Why not treat this rioting with the kind of diplomacy we've tried for decades in the middle east? Use your power to get the politicians, Antifa, BLM and other group leaders together for a summit. Let them see if some reasonable compromise can be worked out.

If Jews and Arabs can at times try for peace, when they absolutely hate each other and actively kill and bomb each other, can't we try that among different groups of Americans? Trump has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the recent middle east effort. Shit, if he can get that same thing to happen between the groups here, in America, I'd friggin nominate him.

I suspect your response is we don't negotiate with animals or something like that. Let's just lock them all away. Sure, that's one solution, but it will just be temporary until the next spark.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:49 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 pm
Why not treat this rioting with the kind of diplomacy we've tried for decades in the middle east? Use your power to get the politicians, Antifa, BLM and other group leaders together for a summit. Let them see if some reasonable compromise can be worked out.

If Jews and Arabs can at times try for peace, when they absolutely hate each other and actively kill and bomb each other, can't we try that among different groups of Americans? Trump has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the recent middle east effort. Shit, if he can get that same thing to happen between the groups here, in America, I'd friggin nominate him.

I suspect your response is we don't negotiate with animals or something like that. Let's just lock them all away. Sure, that's one solution, but it will just be temporary until the next spark.

Just my opinion.
The "wild animals on the attack" that I mentioned in my previous post wouldn't be the ones at a political summit. They are the agitators who have committed violent crimes (arson, assault, etc.), which is why they should be locked up.

Violent agitators are a very tiny fraction of the population, but they are driving the vast majority of riots. So once they are locked up, the riots will largely fizzle out, and what we'll be left with are non-violent protests -- which most Americans are fine with.
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pp4me
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Re: Eight more years?

Post by pp4me » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:32 pm

Tucker began talking about parallels between today and the early part of the previous century. Found it quite interesting and I intend to look into it some more....

https://allthatsinteresting.com/anarchy ... 20America.
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