Second passport?

[StinkyToes]

I believe the political situation in my home country (USA) will become increasingly bad in the coming years (more violence, less freedom, less opportunity, higher taxes, increasingly dysfunctional government, etc). I am interested in obtaining a second passport just in case the fit really hits the shan here. Has anyone done this and if so would you be willing to share your experiences? I don't speak another language and I don't have ancestral ties to any other country except one which I would not want to go to.

[Mark Leavy]

I've looked into it a bit, and it isn't nearly as straightforward as some of the websites would make you believe.
The ones that you can straight out buy (such as St. Kitts) have been flagged because of abuse by criminal elements.

Canadian or Irish or Hungarian ancestry are the best if you have them. I don't. My half sisters's mother was Canadian (long dead). I pushed her to get a second passport and she just got it a month or so ago, after about a year of paperwork.

Some of the more legitimate countries have programs where you can make a huge investment in real estate or business and get citizenship gradually over a few years. Not too bad. Nothing I'm ready to do, yet, though.

In all honestly, even though I would love another passport, I can't imagine giving up my US passport/citizenship. It really is the best in the world - even with the requirement to pay US income taxes no matter where you are.

If you really want a fallback, get financially independent first. Then you can live anywhere in the world on your US passport, with maybe just a little bit of paperwork. I think that approach is more practical and achievable than most other schemes. Of course, you might want to also play the long game and start the multi-year process of getting, say, New Zealand citizenship. I know Craig was living there for awhile and dating a local gal. Maybe he'll chime in.

[dualstow]

I’m half Hungarian but I don’t think they want me.

What was the country that that anarcho libertarian moved to and was promptly murdered? Mexico? Somewhere in South America?

I could probably live out my retirement comfortably in Taiwan, but the crime can get bad and they are likely next on Xi’s xit list.

[Libertarian666]

I've looked into it a bit, and it isn't nearly as straightforward as some of the websites would make you believe.
The ones that you can straight out buy (such as St. Kitts) have been flagged because of abuse by criminal elements.

Canadian or Irish or Hungarian ancestry are the best if you have them. I don't. My half sisters's mother was Canadian (long dead). I pushed her to get a second passport and she just got it a month or so ago, after about a year of paperwork.

Some of the more legitimate countries have programs where you can make a huge investment in real estate or business and get citizenship gradually over a few years. Not too bad. Nothing I'm ready to do, yet, though.

In all honestly, even though I would love another passport, I can't imagine giving up my US passport/citizenship. It really is the best in the world - even with the requirement to pay US income taxes no matter where you are.

If you really want a fallback, get financially independent first. Then you can live anywhere in the world on your US passport, with maybe just a little bit of paperwork. I think that approach is more practical and achievable than most other schemes. Of course, you might want to also play the long game and start the multi-year process of getting, say, New Zealand citizenship. I know Craig was living there for awhile and dating a local gal. Maybe he'll chime in.

If the communists take over the US, you will definitely have to re-imagine your US citizenship. How does a 100% tax on "excess wealth" sound to you?

Of course by then it will be too late if you don't already have your second citizenship.

[Mark Leavy]

If the communists take over the US, you will definitely have to re-imagine your US citizenship. How does a 100% tax on "excess wealth" sound to you?

Of course by then it will be too late if you don't already have your second citizenship.

Come on, tech. You, of all people know the hedge for that risk. That's what a large percentage in physical is for.

[Libertarian666]

If the communists take over the US, you will definitely have to re-imagine your US citizenship. How does a 100% tax on "excess wealth" sound to you?

Of course by then it will be too late if you don't already have your second citizenship.

Come on, tech. You, of all people know the hedge for that risk. That's what a large percentage in physical is for.

For most circumstances, yes. But how are you going to travel if they cancel your passport for non-payment of newly imposed taxes?

[Mark Leavy]

If the communists take over the US, you will definitely have to re-imagine your US citizenship. How does a 100% tax on "excess wealth" sound to you?

Of course by then it will be too late if you don't already have your second citizenship.

Come on, tech. You, of all people know the hedge for that risk. That's what a large percentage in physical is for.

For most circumstances, yes. But how are you going to travel if they cancel your passport for non-payment of newly imposed taxes?

I'm going to suck it up and pay the taxes. Then live off of the money that's safely outside of the system.

[Libertarian666]

If the communists take over the US, you will definitely have to re-imagine your US citizenship. How does a 100% tax on "excess wealth" sound to you?

Of course by then it will be too late if you don't already have your second citizenship.

Come on, tech. You, of all people know the hedge for that risk. That's what a large percentage in physical is for.

For most circumstances, yes. But how are you going to travel if they cancel your passport for non-payment of newly imposed taxes?

I'm going to suck it up and pay the taxes. Then live off of the money that's safely outside of the system.

Only if they don't cancel your passport anyway and imprison you for being a "white supremacist" or the like.
These people are tyrants. No one will be safe.

[Mark Leavy]

Only if they don't cancel your passport anyway and imprison you for being a "white supremacist" or the like.
These people are tyrants. No one will be safe.

Okay, you got me there
I guess I had better shell out $150K for that St. Kitts passport after-all...

[pp4me]

Only if they don't cancel your passport anyway and imprison you for being a "white supremacist" or the like.
These people are tyrants. No one will be safe.

Okay, you got me there
I guess I had better shell out $150K for that St. Kitts passport after-all...

Down here in Florida we always need to have a plan in place to pack up the car and run for our lives during hurricane season so we're probably a little bit ahead when it comes to planning for catastrophes. In the five times we've actually had to do it we were able to return with very little damage but it's been good practice. I was actually talking to my wife yesterday about maybe needing to start thinking a little about a more comprehensive exit strategy that has nothing to do with a hurricane. I still think this is an extremely unlikely scenario but as the CEO of Intel once said "only the paranoid survive".

So when we can resume our world travelling adventures we're going to do it with an eye on finding a place outside the country to buy a second home. Costa Rica is where we are thinking about starting.

Unfortunately, my wife's passport is about to expire and there is a large backlog of applications due to COVID.

[Libertarian666]

Only if they don't cancel your passport anyway and imprison you for being a "white supremacist" or the like.
These people are tyrants. No one will be safe.

Okay, you got me there
I guess I had better shell out $150K for that St. Kitts passport after-all...

Down here in Florida we always need to have a plan in place to pack up the car and run for our lives during hurricane season so we're probably a little bit ahead when it comes to planning for catastrophes. In the five times we've actually had to do it we were able to return with very little damage but it's been good practice. I was actually talking to my wife yesterday about maybe needing to start thinking a little about a more comprehensive exit strategy that has nothing to do with a hurricane. I still think this is an extremely unlikely scenario but as the CEO of Intel once said "only the paranoid survive".

So when we can resume our world travelling adventures we're going to do it with an eye on finding a place outside the country to buy a second home. Costa Rica is where we are thinking about starting.

Unfortunately, my wife's passport is about to expire and there is a large backlog of applications due to COVID.

In that case I would pay for expedited service.
Oops, looks like that's not available right now either. Ugh.

[I Shrugged]

I believe Uruguay has lightened its requirements.

[I Shrugged]

Anyone looked into Italian ancestry passports as featured on CBS a year ago?

[yankees60]

Anyone looked into Italian ancestry passports as featured on CBS a year ago?

This seems fairly detailed regarding it.

https://www.italyheritage.com/genealogy/citizenship/

My father came here from Italy in 1927 at the age of 13. Don't know when he became a U.S. citizen but would it be fair to assume he became one at least by the time he joined the Army in World War II (his new country against his own country)?

I don't see how it would apply to me, even though I'm 100% Italian with him on the fraternal side and my mother's parents on the maternal side.

Vinny

[WiseOne]

Interesting possibility - there are advantages to being an EU citizen even apart from the US going down the tubes.

I checked out the page. There is a complex set of requirements but I may qualify. You have to be able to claim Italian descent through the paternal line (if before 1948), AND as long as the most recent ancestor with Italian citizenship did not become a naturalized US citizen until after the birth of the son who was your ancestor.

It would take some sleuthing to locate the required birth certificates and naturalization papers, but I bet it would be possible especially through one of the many existing geneology services.

Anyone know of other countries who allow something like this? It's a bit like the Israeli "right of return" - for which I decidedly do not qualify.

[Mark Leavy]

...
I checked out the page. There is a complex set of requirements but I may qualify.
...

It would take some sleuthing to locate the required birth certificates and naturalization papers, but I bet it would be possible especially through one of the many existing geneology services.

WiseOne, I would start that search in a heartbeat if I thought I might qualify.
Having an EU passport has a ton of benefits other than just surviving the collapse of US society. Which, while possible, is pretty remote.

The ability to stay in the Schengen Zone for more than 3 months at a time would be at the top of my list.

[Kriegsspiel]

Anyone know of other countries who allow something like this? It's a bit like the Israeli "right of return" - for which I decidedly do not qualify.

Ireland.

You are automatically an Irish citizen if one of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth and was born on the island of Ireland. You don’t need to apply to become an Irish citizen in this case.

You can become an Irish citizen if:

One of your grandparents was born on the island of Ireland, or;
One of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, even though they were not born on the island of Ireland.
In these cases, you can become an Irish citizen through Foreign Birth Registration. link

[Libertarian666]

...
I checked out the page. There is a complex set of requirements but I may qualify.
...

It would take some sleuthing to locate the required birth certificates and naturalization papers, but I bet it would be possible especially through one of the many existing geneology services.

WiseOne, I would start that search in a heartbeat if I thought I might qualify.
Having an EU passport has a ton of benefits other than just surviving the collapse of US society. Which, while possible, is pretty remote.

The ability to stay in the Schengen Zone for more than 3 months at a time would be at the top of my list.

Yep. And in fact you can actually reside in Switzerland with an EU passport, at least at present. That would be a good enough reason for me, assuming my project takes off and I can afford it.

[WiseOne]

Hmmm - tech are you hinting you might consider a move to Switzerland?

I jumped on Ancestry.com just to see what it could do during a free trial. Long story short: I absolutely qualify for the Italian ancestry passport if I can track down the birth certificates and naturalization papers (none showed up on Ancestry.com). They key finding was a US census report for the year after my grandfather's birth indicating that my great-grandfather was not yet a naturalized US citizen. The census report 10 years later showed that he was, so it happened sometime in the interim.

p.s. totally worth it to sign up and pay for a month or two to get the information. The records they've gathered together are incredible. Unfortunately, finding the Italian birth certificate may be impossible since the ancestor in question was born in 1865.

p.p.s. The census reports from the first half of the 1900s (and maybe longer) all had citizenship questions. WTF??? Why can't we have that now again?

[Libertarian666]

Hmmm - tech are you hinting you might consider a move to Switzerland?

I love Switzerland. It's just too expensive to live there for most people.

I jumped on Ancestry.com just to see what it could do during a free trial. Long story short: I absolutely qualify for the Italian ancestry passport if I can track down the birth certificates and naturalization papers (none showed up on Ancestry.com). They key finding was a US census report for the year after my grandfather's birth indicating that my great-grandfather was not yet a naturalized US citizen. The census report 10 years later showed that he was, so it happened sometime in the interim.

p.s. totally worth it to sign up and pay for a month or two to get the information. The records they've gathered together are incredible. Unfortunately, finding the Italian birth certificate may be impossible since the ancestor in question was born in 1865.

This is where a genealogist comes in. They have ways of tracking things down.

p.p.s. The census reports from the first half of the 1900s (and maybe longer) all had citizenship questions. WTF??? Why can't we have that now again?

Let me guess: because it's RAYCISS?

[yankees60]

Hmmm - tech are you hinting you might consider a move to Switzerland?

I jumped on Ancestry.com just to see what it could do during a free trial. Long story short: I absolutely qualify for the Italian ancestry passport if I can track down the birth certificates and naturalization papers (none showed up on Ancestry.com). They key finding was a US census report for the year after my grandfather's birth indicating that my great-grandfather was not yet a naturalized US citizen. The census report 10 years later showed that he was, so it happened sometime in the interim.

p.s. totally worth it to sign up and pay for a month or two to get the information. The records they've gathered together are incredible. Unfortunately, finding the Italian birth certificate may be impossible since the ancestor in question was born in 1865.

p.p.s. The census reports from the first half of the 1900s (and maybe longer) all had citizenship questions. WTF??? Why can't we have that now again?

Until now I had no idea you were Italian.

You read and interpreted what was there far deeper than I did. I thought it was referring to only my father. But if it refers to my father being the son of my grandfather then, of course, my grandfather was not yet a naturalized US Citizen at the time of my father's birth because that would have been an event that occurred years before anyone came to the United States and while they were all Italian citizens.

Vinny

[dualstow]

...
It's a bit like the Israeli "right of return" - for which I decidedly do not qualify.

Marry a nice Jewish boy?

[Mountaineer]

...
It's a bit like the Israeli "right of return" - for which I decidedly do not qualify.

Marry a nice Jewish boy?

That is a most unPC comment. You should have said marry a nice resident of Israel LGBTQXYX+ mammal.

[StinkyToes]

I've been looking into all this with help from one of the Forum members.

If you qualify by descent, that is a wonderful option.

If not, here are some of the countries that have come up in my readings:

Argentina: Retiree visa is pretty easy to get. After just 2 years of residency in Argentina (physical presence required), can apply for naturalization. Must speak Spanish at intermediate level. An Argentinian passport gives you the right to live in work in most South American countries, including Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, and Uruguay.

Panama - Fairly easy to obtain permanent residency (virtually no physical presence requirement). Can apply for naturalization 5 years later.

Belize - Very easy to obtain permanent residency. Physical presence requirement of 30 days per year. Can apply for naturalization 5 years later.

Bulgaria - can buy citizenship for about $440,000. The process takes about 18 months for the primary applicant, then another 6-9 months for kids, followed by several more years for the primary applicant's spouse. No language requirement, no minimum stay requirement. Upon receiving citizenship, can live and work anywhere in the EU. Very low personal income tax rate. Free health care.

St. Kitts and Nevis: Can buy a passport for $150,000 for a family of 4.

Antigua and Barbuda: Can buy a passport for $100,000 for a family of 4.

St. Lucia: Can buy a passport for $100,000 for a family of 4.

If you want a second passport as quickly as possible, it seems that the Caribbean islands are good choices. They are offering discounts currently because there has been virtually no tourism this year. If you can wait a little longer and don't mind living abroad, Argentina would be a good choice. I think that getting to intermediate level in Spanish after two years of residency would not pose a major problem. If you can spare the money, Bulgaria seems like a great option. And if you don't mind waiting 5 years to naturalize, Panama and Belize seem worthy of consideration.

[WiseOne]

You offering dualstow?

Vinny - I'm as American as it gets i.e. a mongrel. 1/2 Palestinian, 1/4 Polish, 1/4 Italian. The 1/4 Italian just happens to be precisely what is required for the Italian passport (patriarchal descent). Feels a little like cheating but hey, I didn't make the rules.