Another angle on the recent events in America and the world

[Smith1776]

Recently, tighter gun control laws were enacted here in Canada, and that has spurred some off the cuff thoughts on my part regarding the news lately.

For those who are proponents of gun control who are outraged at the killing of innocent people like George Floyd at the hands of the police, or the detainment of journalists, or the shooting of innocent civilians like in this video, I hope they are now beginning to understand the importance of upholding the public’s right to own firearms.

These are all just small instances of a larger issue at play. Owning a gun has scant relevance to defending yourself against terrorists, burglars, or flying saucers. It’s about defending yourself against a police state that does not care for your well-being or your liberties.

Whether you're talking about Snowden's revelations, the oppression and censorship endured by the Chinese, or any other countless examples, it is clear that oppressive government regimes are not the stuff of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. The recent events in America and Hong Kong, and the long passage of history should further make that obvious.

The founding fathers knew that the only way to keep a government in check was by giving citizens the right to defend themselves. But there are now too many complacent people in industrialized countries that simply don’t care about something that they should be fighting tooth and nail to keep.

I feel like I'm really kicking the hornets nest with a post like this. Opinions are always welcome.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Don ... ou_police/

[Hal]

Recently, tighter gun control laws were enacted here in Canada, and that has spurred some off the cuff thoughts on my part regarding the news lately.

Sounds similar to Australia

Coronavirus -> Reaction Ban Gun/Ammunition sales??

https://ssaavic.com.au/gun-ban-hurting-dealers/

[Kriegsspiel]

Guns are actually very relevant in defending yourself from terrorists and burglars.

[shekels]

Recently, tighter gun control laws were enacted here in Canada, and that has spurred some off the cuff thoughts on my part regarding the news lately.

For those who are proponents of gun control who are outraged at the killing of innocent people like George Floyd at the hands of the police, or the detainment of journalists, or the shooting of innocent civilians like in this video, I hope they are now beginning to understand the importance of upholding the public’s right to own firearms.

These are all just small instances of a larger issue at play. Owning a gun has scant relevance to defending yourself against terrorists, burglars, or flying saucers. It’s about defending yourself against a police state that does not care for your well-being or your liberties.

Whether you're talking about Snowden's revelations, the oppression and censorship endured by the Chinese, or any other countless examples, it is clear that oppressive government regimes are not the stuff of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. The recent events in America and Hong Kong, and the long passage of history should further make that obvious.

The founding fathers knew that the only way to keep a government in check was by giving citizens the right to defend themselves. But there are now too many complacent people in industrialized countries that simply don’t care about something that they should be fighting tooth and nail to keep.

I feel like I'm really kicking the hornets nest with a post like this. Opinions are always welcome.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Don ... ou_police/

It is not only about the Police State..
How are you going to defend YOU and your Loved Ones?
There is EVIL in this World,and it is up to You that is ultimately responsible for your Security.

[Hal]

It is not only about the Police State..
How are you going to defend YOU and your Loved Ones?
There is EVIL in this World,and it is up to You that is ultimately responsible for your Security.

+1
https://nationalshooting.org.au/blog/f/ ... r-off-dead

https://medium.com/leyonhjelm/the-polic ... 8d076ebb78

Rather passionate about this as we were on the receiving end of a potential home invasion.
And "Lassie came to the rescue" - I had never seen our dogs so vicious as on that night when they(?) attempted to kick in the door.
Think they had second thoughts about what would happen to them if they got inside.

[I Shrugged]

Guns are actually very relevant in defending yourself from terrorists and burglars.

Yes but the thinking behind the 2nd amendment was that armed citizens won't be ruled by tyrants. I wish the pro-2A advocates would stress that more, instead of putting so much of their efforts behind the personal protection angle. Because, there is no counter-argument, other than "Our nation will never become a tyranny or be overrun by one." One would think that the anti-Trumpers might, deep down, see the point. Given their views of him as a tyrant. I know they won't though, because "once they are in charge", all will be lovely.

In any event, I suggest pointing out and defending the real reason for armed citizens, whenever one is advocating for that right. My God, just start listing the examples, and they never end. Cambodia. Nazi Germany. Haiti. On and on. When I have pointed this out to the snowflakes in my life, it seems to stop them in their tracks and make them say, "Hmmmm."

[Hal]

Guns are actually very relevant in defending yourself from terrorists and burglars.

Yes but the thinking behind the 2nd amendment was that armed citizens won't be ruled by tyrants. I wish the pro-2A advocates would stress that more, instead of putting so much of their efforts behind the personal protection angle. Because, there is no counter-argument, other than "Our nation will never become a tyranny or be overrun by one." One would think that the anti-Trumpers might, deep down, see the point. Given their views of him as a tyrant. I know they won't though, because "once they are in charge", all will be lovely.

In any event, I suggest pointing out and defending the real reason for armed citizens, whenever one is advocating for that right. My God, just start listing the examples, and they never end. Cambodia. Nazi Germany. Haiti. On and on. When I have pointed this out to the snowflakes in my life, it seems to stop them in their tracks and make them say, "Hmmmm."

After a bit of research, the "No taxation without representation" seems a common theme.
Was this ever an issue in Canada? And how did the Canadian "British Subjects" obtain the right to vote?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc0OoyfaB2o

PS: Gun registration came in just after the Eureka Stockade

[dualstow]

Whether you are pro-firearms or anti-firearms, I just can't imagine any means by which the U.S. population would be disarmed. It's not going to happen. Maybe at some point, after we're all long gone, they will prohibit the sale of bullets, and they'll have to be bought on the black market.

[Lonestar]

Whether you are pro-firearms or anti-firearms, I just can't imagine any means by which the U.S. population would be disarmed. It's not going to happen. Maybe at some point, after we're all long gone, they will prohibit the sale of bullets, and they'll have to be bought on the black market.

You may be right but doesn't mean "they" won't try.

[I Shrugged]

I wonder how many serious gun owners there are in the US. Because the ones I have known have many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. And there are a lot of them. There have to be hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo in private hands.

[yankees60]

I wonder how many serious gun owners there are in the US. Because the ones I have known have many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. And there are a lot of them. There have to be hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo in private hands.

There are enough of them to take on their police departments. Maybe. But how are they going to do against the military?

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

I wonder how many serious gun owners there are in the US. Because the ones I have known have many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. And there are a lot of them. There have to be hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo in private hands.

There are enough of them to take on their police departments. Maybe. But how are they going to do against the military?

Vinny

If it ever comes down to the citizens against the military, then the normal rules of decency won't apply. When the military and the citizens live in the same country and have common friends and family:

1) Many of the military will sympathize with the citizens.
2) The family members, businesses and property of the non-sympathizing military are known amongst the populace and will become targets. Military members may not be so eager to act when it means that their mom and sister will be hung from the bridge.

It is not just about firepower. It's an attitude.

[Xan]

I wonder how many serious gun owners there are in the US. Because the ones I have known have many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. And there are a lot of them. There have to be hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo in private hands.

There are enough of them to take on their police departments. Maybe. But how are they going to do against the military?

Vinny

What percentage of them are IN the military?

[shekels]

Also Do Not Forget..
Federal Court has Affirmed in the U.S.
Police Have No Duty to Protect You.

[Smith1776]

This thread ended up going way better than I thought. As opposed to civil rights leaders and politicians, the person whose opinion I'm really looking forward to hearing is Dave Chappelle.

[dualstow]

This thread ended up going way better than I thought. As opposed to civil rights leaders and politicians, the person whose opinion I'm really looking forward to hearing is Dave Chappelle.

I like his bit where he said,

I think every African American should get a permit to carry a firearm. (Nearly silent applause, some nods and gestures of ‘yeah!’ Pause....) And then guns will be promptly outlawed!

That’s a paraphrase.

[Smith1776]

This thread ended up going way better than I thought. As opposed to civil rights leaders and politicians, the person whose opinion I'm really looking forward to hearing is Dave Chappelle.

I like his bit where he said,

I think every African American should get a permit to carry a firearm. (Nearly silent applause, some nods and gestures of ‘yeah!’ Pause....) And then guns will be promptly outlawed!

That’s a paraphrase.

Holy moly! I totally forgot about that bit but remember it now.

I can't imagine how far Chappelle is going to take this latest news in his next special. You just know he's going to run with it. I just wish he'd stop smoking. That comedy legend has got to keep himself healthy so he can stick around with us!

[Smith1776]

Unpopular opinion incoming:

Sometimes violence is the answer. I don't necessarily mean in the context of the riots/protests happening now. I'm not necessarily saying any of that is justified. But speaking in a broader context. I've been hearing lots of voices about how every protest, every movement, and every lamentation about government and the abuse of citizens has to be expressed peacefully.

This whole idea of being peaceful and going to the ballot box to enact change is utter horse shit because it's very obvious that the political system is rigged and nothing will change that way.

Hell, America as a country was founded on violent revolution.

What nerve politicians have to tell citizens to be peaceful and non-violent towards those that clearly have no intention of giving them even a shred of that decency in return. More and more in America, blindly espousing the idea of non-violence is like being beat up in a fight and not fighting back because you don't want to hurt anyone.

Between the spying, the erosion of rights, and the killing of innocent citizens (domestically and abroad), it makes me think we really should start that seasteading state on an oil rig...

[dualstow]

Unpopular opinion incoming:

Sometimes violence is the answer. I don't necessarily mean in the context of the riots/protests happening now. I'm not necessarily saying any of that is justified. But speaking in a broader context. I've been hearing lots of voices about how every protest, every movement, and every lamentation about government and the abuse of citizens has to be expressed peacefully.

This whole idea of being peaceful and going to the ballot box to enact change is utter horse shit because it's very obvious that the political system is rigged and nothing will change that way.

Hell, America as a country was founded on violent revolution.
...

You reminded me of this clip of James Baldwin talking about different people taking up arms.
https://youtu.be/ZVjZipnb_hc. EDIT: sorry, forgot to paste it, initially.

Am I the only one here that thinks part of the reason the rioting has gotten so out of hand is bc of the Covid lockdown?

I think it amplified things, no doubt.

[Mountaineer]

Am I the only one here that thinks part of the reason the rioting has gotten so out of hand is bc of the Covid lockdown? I agree with Scott Adams that this has set the progress of Black back 10 years. But doesn't take much to make people snap under the conditions we've been under.

I’m with you Pug. My wife and I just had that conversation. And we added hot weather to the mix. Pressure cooker times indeed.

[Tortoise]

Am I the only one here that thinks part of the reason the rioting has gotten so out of hand is bc of the Covid lockdown? I agree with Scott Adams that this has set the progress of Black back 10 years. But doesn't take much to make people snap under the conditions we've been under.

I’m with you Pug. My wife and I just had that conversation. And we added hot weather to the mix. Pressure cooker times indeed.

Yes, in fact Scott Adams explicitly said on his podcast the other day that he thinks a big contributor to the riots and looting has been "pent-up energy" created by the Covid-19 lockdowns.

[Smith1776]

You reminded me of this clip of James Baldwin talking about different people taking up arms.
https://youtu.be/ZVjZipnb_hc. EDIT: sorry, forgot to paste it, initially.

Powerful.

Is that Dick Cavett??? Before my time, but I know him well because he had Bobby Fischer on his show!

[Hal]

First off I would like to thank Smith for starting this interesting topic and the forum members for intelligent discussion.

A couple of questions/thoughts....

In the US, did peaceful demonstrations or violent riots ever change anything? I always remember General Haigs quote back in the 80's

Could anyone explain to me why Jesus used violence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

From what I understand (perhaps incorrectly) the US was founded on Christian principles, so how did the founders want change to be made and how does that tie in with your right to bear arms?

[dualstow]

Is that Dick Cavett?

Yup, that’s him. Before my time too, really.

[Smith1776]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/d ... K4DO_dcZtY

A New York Times article which dovetails nicely with what we've just been talking about. "Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways" the title reads.

Again, I'm absolutely not an advocate of violence in general terms. However, there is a time for diplomacy and a time to take action.