FYI: toward a healthy diet

[Benko]

Consider this payback for the assistance I’ve received here. 

NOTHING BELOW SHOULD BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE

I am a physician (M.D.).  This probably makes me less likely than others to have valid/correct opinions on this topic.  I have been reading about diet, lifestyle and supplements forever.  View my posts as you would senior member of this board writing on PP i.e. I know a lot, but am far from infallible, no one knows for sure and there are other viewpoints (I’ve tried to indicate below many of these).

NB: there is probably no one diet that is ideal for everyone.  One particular thing that may vary from person to person is that some people do better on RELATIVELY higher amounts of healthy carbs and others who do better eating less or much less carbs.  If you feel shitty on a low carb diet after a try of a coupla weeks, it may not be for you.  If you have a “belly”? and fall asleep after eating carbs, than a lower carb diet may be better for you.  NB: there is a large spectrum between the no/ultra low carb diet and the high carb diet to choose from.

VEGETARIAN/VEGAN DIET:  some people probably do fine or thrive on diets with no animal protein.  Many people (including some who eat vegetarian/vegan) are probably harming themselves and would do better eating some animal protein.  There are some nutrients that one cannot get without animal protein or supplements (e.g. carnosine and EPA/DHA).  If you pay attention to how you feel on a given diet (and ignore any beliefs you may have) you will likely be better off.  Your body does not care what your political beliefs are and may “have other ideas”?.

RAW FOOD DIET: while there are probably benefits, raw foods are “more difficult to digest”? and eating 100% raw foods ain’t for everyone (or probably most).

DIET THEORIES:  there is a lot of controversy about diet and what people should be eating, but there is also a lot of agreement.

MOST EXPERTS WOULD AGREE WITH:

Eating different colored fruits and veggies is likely very healthy.  See books e.g. Tricolor diet.  The colored pigments are healthy nutrients.

VEGGIES:  almost everyone agrees that eating lots of veggies is good.  Just google healthiest veggies.  One good lists here:

http://commonsensehealth.com/Diet-and-N ... List.shtml

FRUITS: most (but not all) agree that eating small amounts of different colored fruits e.g. berries are healthy.  Fruits do contain sugars and eating 12 bananas a day (there are apparently fruitarians) is a really bad idea.

NUTS:  many contain healthy fats and are very good for you. Be aware of the calories.
Any individual nuts which are dark or taste bad are probably rancid and unhealthy.  I don’t know if raw nuts are any healthier than roasted.  Perhaps.  Raw nuts are harder to digest (I bake them plain at 290 degrees for 20 min as a compromise).

“FATTY FISH”? Some fish contain healthy fats i.e. Omega 3 fatty acids and are very healthy.  Pollutants and heavy metals are an issue with some (buy wild fish).  Sardines are ideal in many ways since they contain omega 3s and are small so no issue with heavy metals (smaller fish in general have less issue with pollutants/heavy metals).  You can google mercury safe fish.  Wild salmon is likely safe eaten regularly, though perhaps not every day.  There are fish oils one can buy which are pollutant/heavy metal free for those that don’t like fish.

FATS/OILS:  Toxic: rancid fats, deep fried stuff, nuts with funny color, smell, “trans fatty acids”? i.e. anything with hydrogenated/partially hydrogenated in the name (found in many margarines) are all unhealthy.

Omega three fatty acids are very healthy.  Monounsaturated fats e.g. Olive oil are healthy.

Olive oil: very healthy. Best is first/cold pressed used raw e.g. salads.  Not a good idea to fry with (use canola or coconut for that).

ANIMAL PROTEIN: Many/most would agree that lean animal protein is fine (I’m not talking McDonalds).  Hormone free/antibiotic free is better.  Grass fed may be best (it does taste different).

CARBS:  Many/most would agree that eating large amounts of sugar is unhealthy.
Beans, peas, legumes. etc are likely healthy.


CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS--LESS AGREEMENT:

CARBS:
--some experts are VERY anti-carb, some pro carb.
--WHEAT, specifically may be unhealthy for many.
--GLYCEMIX INDEX/GLYCEMIC LOAD: eating foods that raise your blood sugar a lot, or eating a boatload of even carbs that raise your blood sugar a little may not be a great idea.
--very few grains have low glycemic index: barley, and slow cooking (but not instant) oatmeal are two.  Eating grains with fat/protein/other foods can slow blood sugar rise.
--Some experts are VERY anti-grains and recommend avoiding all of them.  Some experts are pro-grains and suggest that everyone should eat them regularly. 

To quote Storm “What I did was just replace all carbs with low GI carbs”? this is certainly one good approach, again being sensitive to whether you are getting too much or too little carbs for your body.

SATURATED FAT:  conventional wisdom is that they are unhealthy.  If you google “is saturated fat unhealthy”? you can finds lots of info both ways.  If you are at least reasonably healthy, and consume a healthy diet and healthy fats i.e. Omega 3 fatty acids, I am skeptical that eating some saturated fats regularly is unhealthy. 

Coconut oil. Controversial.  Fine to fry with (if you must fry).  Possibly very healthy. Buy unrefined.  Available with/without coconut flavor.  It is saturated fat.

Ultra low fat:  this diet is by definition much higher in carbs which many people do not tolerate and are likely not very healthy for them. 

SOY:  Good for everything/everyone or evil?  I don’t know.  Look at it this way, if the stuff has enough endocrine activity to prevent post menopausal hot flashes in women, do you want to feed it to your 3 month old?

Conservative approach: I doubt an occasional serving bad for any adult.  I would not feed ANY to an infant (many infant formulas contain the stuff). Likely OK in reasonable amounts for adult women.  I would not suggest anyone supplement with the stuff.  Fermented products perhaps better than other forms.  Perhaps/likely different if you are of asian ancestry.

DAIRY:  One could write a book about this.  All I can say is: probably fine for some, not so for others.  Cheese may be fine/healthy for some who don’t do well with milk.


MISC TOPICS:

--Cocoa is likely very healthy.  Dark chocolate, the higher the percentage of cocoa the better is one good source.  85% e.g. Lindt bars are one example.  I just buy navitas brand cocoa powder and add the powder and some coconut oil to cooked e.g. barley or slow cooking oatmeal.

--Tumeric i.e. the spice in curries is very healthy. This is one example where it may be better to take the supplement i.e. Curcumin, perhaps with bioperine than the spice.

--aerobic exercise is VERY good and recommended.
--Some supplements are helpful e.g. Multi, fish oil and vit D.

The medical establishment, physicians, dietitians, ADA, PETA, etc are not reliable sources of info.

[craigr]

Great post. I think I agree with just about all you said. I respond poorly to carb intake personally. I need to limit it to lose and maintain my weight. I find that heavy carb diets make me feel quite bad overall.

[HB Reader]

Good post.  It pretty much sums up most of what I've come to understand as credible dietary advice.

[smurff]

Coconut oil. Controversial.  Fine to fry with (if you must fry).  Possibly very healthy. Buy unrefined.  Available with/without coconut flavor.  It is saturated fat.

Thanks for this bit of info.  I like coconut flavor and aroma on rare occasions, but not enough to infuse an entire meal.   I have tried, with little success, to use coconut oil for cooking.  Too much of it (daily or even weekly consumption) brings on a real yuck response, complete with gagging and cussing whenever I smell it.  My reaction becomes similar to those of people who can't stand cilantro.

It's good to know I can get this oil without the coconut flavor now.

The medical establishment, physicians, dietitians, ADA, PETA, etc are not reliable sources of info.

It's great to have this acknowledged an actual doctor.

[stone]

Benko, you say that aerobic exersize is important. Isn't it also true that anaerobic exersize is also important? I got the impression that part of the problem with the "western lifestyle" was that it didn't have enough hypoxia. Anaerobic endurance type exersize that activates the hypoxia response pathway (eg repeated bouts of intense exersize without getting your breath back inbetween) causes hormonal changes that benefit for many hours after the exersize is completed.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3110000690

[Benko]

1. I use Jarrow coconut oil.  I have no commercial interest, but jarrow makes high quality supplements as well as some dietary things like coconut oil flavored/unflavored.

2. I should probably have mentioned that coconut oil has a laxative effect on many people (from the medium chain triglycerides).  It is supposed to fade over time.

3.  I am not an expert on exercise but from what I know it would be ideal to have both aerobic and anerobic exericse, though the aerobic would likely have more impact on longevity.  Of course maintaining enough muscle tone/balance to avoid accidents which could result in a hip fracture (talking about people in their 60s and older) is important also.

[TripleB]

Benko:

Thanks for stepping away from PACS long enough to draft your highly informative post  ;)

[FarmerD]

Solid take on nutrition that is a good starting point for any normal healthy person. 

Just to clarify one point though:
"very few grains have low glycemic index: barley, and slow cooking (but not instant) oatmeal are two"

True, barley and oatmeal have a low glycemic index.  However, the glycemic index is measured at 2 hours postprandial.  Measure yourself at the 3, 4 or even 5 hour points and you may still have an elevated glucose level (If diabetic, you assuredly will.)  Pasta has the same effect, that's why so many dieticians recommend spaghetti for diabetics. 

Still, I love the writer's lack of agenda and open mind. 

[Storm]

Great post.  Regarding coconut oil - I've found that some curry type dishes taste very good with coconut milk, which contains a certain amount of coconut oil.  This also helps you use the great spices like turmeric, garam masala, etc, which also have many great phytonutrients (plant nutrition).

[Storm]

Solid take on nutrition that is a good starting point for any normal healthy person.  

Just to clarify one point though:
"very few grains have low glycemic index: barley, and slow cooking (but not instant) oatmeal are two"

True, barley and oatmeal have a low glycemic index.  However, the glycemic index is measured at 2 hours postprandial.  Measure yourself at the 3, 4 or even 5 hour points and you may still have an elevated glucose level (If diabetic, you assuredly will.)  Pasta has the same effect, that's why so many dieticians recommend spaghetti for diabetics.  

Still, I love the writer's lack of agenda and open mind.  

Regarding glycemic index and grains - some of the grains I enjoy that are low GI:

Breakfast:

• Buckwheat - cook 1/2 cup 20-25 minutes in 2 cups unsweetened soy milk with 1 mashed banana and 1/4 tsp. cinammon - great cereal.
• Steel cut oats - cook 1/2 cup 45 minutes in 2 cups water with 1 diced apple and 1/4 tsp. cinammon.
• Amaranth - cook 1/2 cup 25-30 minutes in 2 cups unsweetened soy milk with 1 diced apple and 1/4 tsp. cinammon.
• Sprouted wheat bread - You can find this in the health food section of some grocery stores under the brand Ezekiel 4:9 - 2 slices of toast buttered with almond butter and topped with banana slices.

Lunch and Dinner:

• Quinoa
• Barley
• Brown rice
• Buckwheat (try cooking with organic chicken broth and adding as a side dish)
• Lentils - although now we're crossing into legume territory here  :D

That should give you an idea of the diversity of grains you can cook with.  You can really switch it up, and stay low GI all the time if you work at it.  These grains take extra time to cook, and that is the reason most people don't use them - refined grains allow us to cook fast, but I've learned that anything cooked faster than grandma did it is probably unhealthy for you anyway.

[moda0306]

Couscous a good option?  My wife makes it and it is a tastier version of quinoa in my book.

[Storm]

Couscous a good option?  My wife makes it and it is a tastier version of quinoa in my book.

I think couscous might be a high GI carb more similar to white rice or regular bread, however I could be wrong.

[Benko]

Storm things get complicated regarding glycemic index. There is a cardiologist who has much good information:

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/

who basically don't like any kind of grains, eating oatmeal elicits too high bloodsugar rise in most people for his tastes.  And he HATES wheat for all. He has new book an "wheat belly".

I eat slow cooking oats, barley and buckwheat (not together) with added coconut oil and I take capsules of guar gum before hand which does slow the blood sugar rise.  It does not help any as far as glycemic load.

"Two foods have a GI over 90 -- parsnips and amaranth."
Amaranth has a high glycemic index by itself, though taken with other food e.g. protein and fat the blood sugar rise is blunted.

Good reference on glycemic index and glycemic load here:
http://www.mendosa.com/common_foods.htm
oh and brown rice:

The glycemic index of brown rice is 55, putting it about equivalent to long-grain white rice.
GI: low=1-55 mid=56-69 High=70-10

[moda0306]

I nominate Benko for "PP Forum Rookie of the Year: 2011."

[MediumTex]

I have a question for our nutritionists about what I eat for breakfast:

Grapenuts with raisins and almonds sprinkled on top and with almond milk.

It keeps me full until lunch, which many breakfast foods do not.

Anyone want to comment on how healthy this breakfast is or is not?

Thanks.

[Bob]

Mt - Your breakfast choices sound healthy to me, of course, I also consider Twinkies to be one of nature's essential food groups.  My dad used to eat shredded wheat with grapenuts on top of it.  He called it "haystacks and rocks."  I can certainly think of a lot of 'less healthy' choices for breakfast.

[Benko]

MT on the scale of the general population, not terrible.  Not optimal either, and I would suggest improving it.

Glycemic Index Value:    71 grapenuts
GI: low=1-55 mid=56-69 High=70-10

+ raisins which are VERY high in sugar/glycemic index.

At a minimum add some protein, animal protein if that fits your diet.  Better add some animal protein and e.g. slow cooking oatmeal.  Oh and I use stevia or trivia for sweetner.

[moda0306]

I just eat the marshmallows from the lucky charms box in chocolate milk.

How about that? 

[Storm]

Storm things get complicated regarding glycemic index. There is a cardiologist who has much good information:

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/

who basically don't like any kind of grains, eating oatmeal elicits too high bloodsugar rise in most people for his tastes.  And he HATES wheat for all. He has new book an "wheat belly".

I eat slow cooking oats, barley and buckwheat (not together) with added coconut oil and I take capsules of guar gum before hand which does slow the blood sugar rise.  It does not help any as far as glycemic load.

"Two foods have a GI over 90 -- parsnips and amaranth."
Amaranth has a high glycemic index by itself, though taken with other food e.g. protein and fat the blood sugar rise is blunted.

Good reference on glycemic index and glycemic load here:
http://www.mendosa.com/common_foods.htm
oh and brown rice:

The glycemic index of brown rice is 55, putting it about equivalent to long-grain white rice.
GI: low=1-55 mid=56-69 High=70-10

Benko, I could be wrong, but the article that shows Amaranth having a GI of 97 talks about using Amaranth as a wheat flour additive or flour substitute.

I think they are talking about ground Amaranth.  As you probably already know, grinding any whole grain increases it's GI dramatically.  I think whole Amaranth, still in the husk, should have a much lower GI.  Again, I could be mistaken, and I apologize if this information is incorrect.

Most of the good recipes I learned from a great book called "Ultrametabolism" by Dr. Mark Hyman.  He really breaks down how you can lose weight and feel great by eating a lot of whole foods.

[Benko]

"I think whole Amaranth, still in the husk, should have a much lower GI."
That is true in general and you may very well have more information about Amaranth than I.  THe relevant info is obviously not what glycemic index in husk is, but in form that you are eating it.

I do not know anything about Dr. Mark Hyman.  In the website with his description it mentions him collaborating with Ornish, the original ultra low fat guru.  I presume (but am not a fan of ornish and really have no idea) that ornish has accepted the importance of fish oil, olive oil and nuts.  In any case I would certainly suspect that Hyman would be advocating low fats and high grains.  My opinions on fats are above.  Eating lots of grains may very well be a good idea for many.  I wonder if this is a great idea for everyone however e.g. wheat is a special case and grains are common food allergies.

The importance of glycemic index alone may be overstated but there is also glycemic load to consider as well as the fact that eating grains with protein and fats slows the blood sugar rise.

[FarmerD]

Medium Tex,
If you like your breakfast and it agrees with you, i'd say it's probably fine.

OTOH if you want to be conservative and particularly if

1) you're diabetic
2) you're prediabetic
3) you're overweight
3) have a family history of diabetes

you can buy a cheap Walmart brand (RELION) blood glucose meter and 30 test strips for about $40.  If your blood sugar is above, say, 110mg/dl 2 hours after eating, you may be prediabetic.  ALternatively (or in conjunction with the daily blood glucose checks) you can get a HgA1C test.  Any HgA1C test above 7.0 is diabetic, anything below 5.0 is normal, and anything in between falls into the category of prediabetic.  I've read that there are two prediabetics for every one diabetic so it is rather common.  Prediabetics have at least double the heart attack risk of people with normal blood sugars.  

Some medical researchers believes carbohydrates (particularly grains like wheat) can provoke a change in LdL cholesterol for some people from the large fluffy type to the small harder type that gets lodged in arteries.  While there isn't universal acceptance on this idea, I think it's common sense to go with the type of diet that induces the type of LdL that's associated with the fewest heart problems.

The only way to tell how your body response to the diet you're on is to test yourself. The VAP test is a comprehensive lipid test.  To see what it includes, check out the following example of a VAP test lab report (http://www.atherotech.com/content/files ... sample.pdf).

You may want to get a VAP test, then try a very low carb diet, test yourself again, then adopt a high carb diet the test yourself again.  Then you can see which diet produces the best blood lipids for you.  

I'm not a doctor but I''ve played one on TV, so that gives me the right to toss out random medical opinions.      

[Storm]

"I think whole Amaranth, still in the husk, should have a much lower GI."
That is true in general and you may very well have more information about Amaranth than I.  THe relevant info is obviously not what glycemic index in husk is, but in form that you are eating it.

I do not know anything about Dr. Mark Hyman.  In the website with his description it mentions him collaborating with Ornish, the original ultra low fat guru.  I presume (but am not a fan of ornish and really have no idea) that ornish has accepted the importance of fish oil, olive oil and nuts.  In any case I would certainly suspect that Hyman would be advocating low fats and high grains.  My opinions on fats are above.  Eating lots of grains may very well be a good idea for many.  I wonder if this is a great idea for everyone however e.g. wheat is a special case and grains are common food allergies.

The importance of glycemic index alone may be overstated but there is also glycemic load to consider as well as the fact that eating grains with protein and fats slows the blood sugar rise.

Actually, I haven't heard of Ornish, but Dr. Mark Hyman is very much a good fats advocate.  In fact, he devotes an entire chapter to dispelling "the fat myth" that fats make you fat.  In fact, he bases much of his research on published scientific studies that have shown that test subjects on a low fat diet gained more weight than test subjects on a diet that included moderate healthy fats but kept caloric intake the same.

The diet he proposes includes a lot of healthy nuts, avocados, olive oil, macadamia oil (which might even be better for you than olive oil and can be cooked at higher temperatures), and coconut oil/milk.

The main reason the book really appealed to me is that he breaks it down and explains our bodies systems of metabolism in a way that a layman can understand, and uses peer-reviewed scientific research to base most of his conclusions.  To me, it read very much like a Harry Browne book but instead of explaining the financial system, it explains your body's systems in a way that, once you understand them, allows you to make intelligent choices on your own about what you eat.  And his diet really works - it is not a fad diet, but rather a diet that would allow you to eat healthy your whole life.

In case you're interested in the book:  

http://www.amazon.com/Ultrametabolism-S ... 743272560/

[Storm]

I should also clarify that the diet I use doesn't really focus on lots of grains - it just doesn't try to be "low carb," it tries to be "good carb," as in "all carbs are not created equal."

It should be said that the diet is mostly about healthy vegetables, lean meats, and getting lots of phytonutrients.  It also focuses on keeping your blood sugar at regular levels throughout the day by eating 3 smaller meals and 2 snacks in between so that your blood sugar doesn't get too low or too high.

For snacks it also focuses on combining good, healthy fats with a piece of fruit.  For example, an apple has a fairly high GI, but research has shown that if you combine an apple with a handful of almonds, the fat content in the almonds makes the sugar take slightly longer to digest, lowering the GI of the fruit.  I'm not positive that combining good fats and fruit like this really lowers the GI, but it sounds possible to me.

[Benko]

For example, an apple has a fairly high GI, but research has shown that if you combine an apple with a handful of almonds, the fat content in the almonds makes the sugar take slightly longer to digest, lowering the GI of the fruit.  I'm not positive that combining good fats and fruit like this really lowers the GI, but it sounds possible to me.

The glycemix index of mixed meals e.g. apple + nuts is less than that of just the apple, which is one of the reasons people are skeptical of glycemic index having that much signficance.  Adding protein or fat are common ways to add something to a meal to deacrease the glycemic value.

[Storm]

For example, an apple has a fairly high GI, but research has shown that if you combine an apple with a handful of almonds, the fat content in the almonds makes the sugar take slightly longer to digest, lowering the GI of the fruit.  I'm not positive that combining good fats and fruit like this really lowers the GI, but it sounds possible to me.

The glycemix index of mixed meals e.g. apple + nuts is less than that of just the apple, which is one of the reasons people are skeptical of glycemic index having that much signficance.  Adding protein or fat are common ways to add something to a meal to deacrease the glycemic value.

Right, this is a very good point, and just like you can't simply count calories and lose weight, you can't simply count GI and lose weight as well.  A lot of it has to do with timing your meals, eating the right combination of foods together, spread out over a day, never going more than a few hours without food so that you don't have blood sugar crashes, etc.

Thanks for creating this helpful thread.