Scared to Take the PP Jump Because of Gold

[escafandro]

Never mind CA PP, thanks. I found how much I have to pay in customs taxes and is insane.

Anyway, if anyone cares APMEX and Goldsilver.com makes international shipments.

Edit:
Kitco too.

[CPAGUY]

Mom, I have been a PM investor since 2002.  Most of my savings is in PMs.  For most of that time I kept it in coins in my own safekeeping (but not at my home).  I have re-evaluated that now.  Sadly, the vast majority of people no longer have any familiarity or understanding of PMs.  My concern is that national governments can very easily close down our ability to sell our coins to a dealer by any one of a number of methods.  If that were to happen, I would be stuck with coins that I could not readily turn into spendable money.  Bartering is a questionable proposition.  I might also need to leave the USA, in which case I could not take my coins with me.

I have decided that my long term savings in PMs will henceforth be kept out of my home country (USA) and vaulted in Switzerland or Hong Kong, where they can be sold quickly and easily and wired to any place that I have a bank account.  I have had a GoldMoney account for some time.  Now I will make more use of it.  I am considering retiring to Ecuador, or some other part of Latin America.  I confirmed with GoldMoney that they would be able to wire funds from my GoldMoney account to my Ecuadorian bank account.  The bank account mainly needs to be titled in the exact same name as your GoldMoney account so that they cannot plausibly be accused of money laundering.  GoldMoney is headquartered in the Channel Islands, so they are in a relatively safe jurisdiction.  Splitting up the jurisdiction of the account, the storage location and the home country of the owner makes it very difficult for any national government to get their hands on your PMs, plus they are stored where all the most powerful and influential people will be storing their own stash. 

Two other similar companies are Bullion Vault and Hard Assets Alliance (which is a relative newcomer to the retail side of this business).  All three provide allocated (bailment) accounts, meaning that you are the legally titled owner of the PMs, not simply an unsecured creditor of GoldMoney.  Even in case of bankruptcy, you would be at the head of the line because the PMs never belonged to the service provider (GoldMoney), but to you personally.  Also these accounts are audited several times a year and the existence of your PMs are verified.  The amount of metal is reconciled with the records of the owners so as to confirm that they match exactly.  So they cannot sell more metal than is vaulted. 

I agree with you that you do not want to use an ETF like GLD.  I can't tell you anything about GTU.  If you have followed the recent news of crashing investment firms in the USA, you may know that any company where you simply "have an account" is now totally unprotected from thievery a la MFGlobal.  There is even a new appelate court ruling on a similar case that gives the green light to firms that hypothecate (borrow against) customer funds and then lose that money.  The bank they borrowed from gets the money, not you.  It's immoral, but it is the new normal.  Caveat Emptor is the new rule.

I won't prolong this discussion, but I'd be happy to correspond with you privately if you like, or answer further questions here.   

[escafandro]

Never mind CA PP, thanks. I found how much I have to pay in customs taxes and is insane.

I could talk with another custom agent today and he tell me that I can purchase gold coins abroad and import without problems (this made me think about the MTs topic "... person or machine")
So now I can make the leap from gold paper to gold physical.

I have only one more question:  APMEX or KITCO?

[Pointedstick]

I have only one more question:  APMEX or KITCO?

Last time I made a purchase, it was from Goldmart. I found their prices to be the lowest of all the online merchants I checked out.

[escafandro]

Last time I made a purchase, it was from Goldmart. I found their prices to be the lowest of all the online merchants I checked out.

How was your experience with Goldmart?
Because I found they do ship internationally. But they have a minimum purchase of 20 oz.
And this is not a minor issue.

[Pointedstick]

Last time I made a purchase, it was from Goldmart. I found their prices to be the lowest of all the online merchants I checked out.

How was your experience with Goldmart?
Because I found they do ship internationally. But they have a minimum purchase of 20 oz.
And this is not a minor issue.

I had a good experience. At least domestically, I know for a fact they allow you to purchase as little as a single ounce (that was my first purchase ) A minimum international order of 20 oz is a bit high!

[escafandro]

... Tell me about it. It's a big leap of faith.

Probably I will go with Kitco where the minimum is 1 unit, regardless of the size of the product.

[Pointedstick]

That sounds like a sane plan. I can't even imagine writing a $34,000 USD check to some random foreign company!

[yankees60]

Mom, I have been a PM investor since 2002.  Most of my savings is in PMs.  For most of that time I kept it in coins in my own safekeeping (but not at my home).  I have re-evaluated that now.  Sadly, the vast majority of people no longer have any familiarity or understanding of PMs.  My concern is that national governments can very easily close down our ability to sell our coins to a dealer by any one of a number of methods.  If that were to happen, I would be stuck with coins that I could not readily turn into spendable money.  Bartering is a questionable proposition.  I might also need to leave the USA, in which case I could not take my coins with me.

I have decided that my long term savings in PMs will henceforth be kept out of my home country (USA) and vaulted in Switzerland or Hong Kong, where they can be sold quickly and easily and wired to any place that I have a bank account.  I have had a GoldMoney account for some time.  Now I will make more use of it.  I am considering retiring to Ecuador, or some other part of Latin America.  I confirmed with GoldMoney that they would be able to wire funds from my GoldMoney account to my Ecuadorian bank account.  The bank account mainly needs to be titled in the exact same name as your GoldMoney account so that they cannot plausibly be accused of money laundering.  GoldMoney is headquartered in the Channel Islands, so they are in a relatively safe jurisdiction.  Splitting up the jurisdiction of the account, the storage location and the home country of the owner makes it very difficult for any national government to get their hands on your PMs, plus they are stored where all the most powerful and influential people will be storing their own stash. 

Two other similar companies are Bullion Vault and Hard Assets Alliance (which is a relative newcomer to the retail side of this business).  All three provide allocated (bailment) accounts, meaning that you are the legally titled owner of the PMs, not simply an unsecured creditor of GoldMoney.  Even in case of bankruptcy, you would be at the head of the line because the PMs never belonged to the service provider (GoldMoney), but to you personally.  Also these accounts are audited several times a year and the existence of your PMs are verified.  The amount of metal is reconciled with the records of the owners so as to confirm that they match exactly.  So they cannot sell more metal than is vaulted. 

I agree with you that you do not want to use an ETF like GLD.  I can't tell you anything about GTU.  If you have followed the recent news of crashing investment firms in the USA, you may know that any company where you simply "have an account" is now totally unprotected from thievery a la MFGlobal.  There is even a new appelate court ruling on a similar case that gives the green light to firms that hypothecate (borrow against) customer funds and then lose that money.  The bank they borrowed from gets the money, not you.  It's immoral, but it is the new normal.  Caveat Emptor is the new rule.

I won't prolong this discussion, but I'd be happy to correspond with you privately if you like, or answer further questions here.   

Reading this....do you get the impression that he might make Libertarian666's investing approach seem somewhat normal?

Vinny

[ochotona]

Do you have to file any US fed tax forms if you just buy/hold GLD?

Not if you just buy, hold and don't sell it. No reporting involved. If you sell it, that's a taxable event.

[Libertarian666]

Do you have to file any US fed tax forms if you just buy/hold GLD?

Not if you just buy, hold and don't sell it. No reporting involved. If you sell it, that's a taxable event.

Doesn't GLD sell a little bit of your holdings every year to pay the expenses?
I believe that is a reportable event.
See http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/media/GLD ... n-2019.pdf

[ochotona]

Do you have to file any US fed tax forms if you just buy/hold GLD?

Not if you just buy, hold and don't sell it. No reporting involved. If you sell it, that's a taxable event.

Doesn't GLD sell a little bit of your holdings every year to pay the expenses?
I believe that is a reportable event.
See http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/media/GLD ... n-2019.pdf

If it doesn't show up on a 1099, does it exist as far as the IRS is concerned? And wouldn't that be the same for any ETF product?

[ochotona]

Well, my CPA can worry about it.

[I Shrugged]

I deal with the GLD sales every year. They publish a 365 day listing, with totals. There is 1099 reporting too. I have kept a spreadsheet since day one, and add a line every year which refigures the necessary balances and such. I give the published info and spreadsheet to my cpa.

You end up with a capital gain or loss, and an investing expense.

[I Shrugged]

See here

https://www.spdrgoldshares.com/media/GL ... n-2019.pdf

[mathjak107]

But it says this

Please note that Trust Expenses are miscellaneous itemized deductions, which are not deductible for U.S. federal income tax purposes by individuals in 2019.

[mathjak107]

Good because it is to much work ...

[dualstow]

Well, my CPA can worry about it.

I’m selling my paper gold at breakeven and never looking back. Already made up for it in coins some time ago.

[sophie]

Wouldn't the capital gains be offset by the investing expense that you are charged at the same time? It should net out to zero.

Still, this is yet another reason why I don't have any gold ETFs in taxable. Who needs more tax headaches? On the other hand, the FBAR I now have to file is, I guess, a tax headache as well.

[Libertarian666]

Wouldn't the capital gains be offset by the investing expense that you are charged at the same time? It should net out to zero.

Still, this is yet another reason why I don't have any gold ETFs in taxable. Who needs more tax headaches? On the other hand, the FBAR I now have to file is, I guess, a tax headache as well.

Yes, they are very annoying. I'll have one less to file after this year but will still have two until 2022 and one after that.

[seajay]

Mom, I have been a PM investor since 2002.  Most of my savings is in PMs.  For most of that time I kept it in coins in my own safekeeping (but not at my home).  I have re-evaluated that now.  Sadly, the vast majority of people no longer have any familiarity or understanding of PMs.  My concern is that national governments can very easily close down our ability to sell our coins to a dealer by any one of a number of methods.  If that were to happen, I would be stuck with coins that I could not readily turn into spendable money.  Bartering is a questionable proposition.  I might also need to leave the USA, in which case I could not take my coins with me.

I have decided that my long term savings in PMs will henceforth be kept out of my home country (USA) and vaulted in Switzerland or Hong Kong, where they can be sold quickly and easily and wired to any place that I have a bank account.  I have had a GoldMoney account for some time.  Now I will make more use of it.  I am considering retiring to Ecuador, or some other part of Latin America.  I confirmed with GoldMoney that they would be able to wire funds from my GoldMoney account to my Ecuadorian bank account.  The bank account mainly needs to be titled in the exact same name as your GoldMoney account so that they cannot plausibly be accused of money laundering.  GoldMoney is headquartered in the Channel Islands, so they are in a relatively safe jurisdiction.  Splitting up the jurisdiction of the account, the storage location and the home country of the owner makes it very difficult for any national government to get their hands on your PMs, plus they are stored where all the most powerful and influential people will be storing their own stash. 

Two other similar companies are Bullion Vault and Hard Assets Alliance (which is a relative newcomer to the retail side of this business).  All three provide allocated (bailment) accounts, meaning that you are the legally titled owner of the PMs, not simply an unsecured creditor of GoldMoney.  Even in case of bankruptcy, you would be at the head of the line because the PMs never belonged to the service provider (GoldMoney), but to you personally.  Also these accounts are audited several times a year and the existence of your PMs are verified.  The amount of metal is reconciled with the records of the owners so as to confirm that they match exactly.  So they cannot sell more metal than is vaulted. 

I agree with you that you do not want to use an ETF like GLD.  I can't tell you anything about GTU.  If you have followed the recent news of crashing investment firms in the USA, you may know that any company where you simply "have an account" is now totally unprotected from thievery a la MFGlobal.  There is even a new appelate court ruling on a similar case that gives the green light to firms that hypothecate (borrow against) customer funds and then lose that money.  The bank they borrowed from gets the money, not you.  It's immoral, but it is the new normal.  Caveat Emptor is the new rule.

I won't prolong this discussion, but I'd be happy to correspond with you privately if you like, or answer further questions here.   

For reference I emailed goldmoney recently about including the option to buy directly into vaulted Sovereigns, that are tax exempt in the UK in being legal tender. Currently you can arrange to say transfer gold from their Singapore vault to their London vault, and then arrange for physical collection in the form of Sovereigns, but that is a taxable event as gains on bars (the default vaulted gold you buy) are taxable. A relatively simple addition to their existing setup to include the option to buy directly into vaulted Sovereigns, and then later selling those (or arranging collection of physical Sovereigns as they currently already support), would be a potential attraction-to/expansion-of their client base. An additional feature above the likes of bullionvault competitors.

[ppnewbie]

I’ll just jump in here. Monetary Metals is one option I am thinking about starting to use. Because dealing with gold and premiums and taxes in the ETF’s is painful. I’ll throw some details in later today but it’s a minimum of 10oz and they lease the gold at around 2 to 3 percent return for you in gold.

Also as far as ETF’s go. I will use IAUM in the future and have been using IAU. I actually have not heard of GTU and need to look into it.

[dualstow]

This is an old thread and I should probably split & link. For example, GTU has been defunct since 2018.
in the meantime, if you’ve just come upon this thread, you only need to scroll up two posts to Seajay’s. Before that, it’s 2020 & 2012

… Monetary Metals

minimum of 10oz and they lease the gold at around 2 to 3 percent return for you in gold.

EDIT. I misread at first and thought they were charging you 2-3%. So they’re paying you that. Wow.
https://monetary-metals.com/ // official
https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1029202079 // Business Insider, 2020

[ppnewbie]

This is an old thread and I should probably split & link. For example, GTU has been defunct since 2018.
in the meantime, if you’ve just come upon this thread, you only need to scroll up two posts to Seajay’s. Before that, it’s 2020 & 2012

… Monetary Metals

minimum of 10oz and they lease the gold at around 2 to 3 percent return for you in gold.

EDIT. I misread at first and thought they were charging you 2-3%. So they’re paying you that. Wow.
https://monetary-metals.com/ // official
https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1029202079 // Business Insider, 2020

I’ll throw in as many details as I can ASAP. I talked to them and will likely start using them because I find physical gold has a lot of cognitive (and probably foolish) speed bumps for me, like premiums and wondering if I am getting scammed, cashiers checks, worrying about the shipment, etc, etc… I am also a big fan of their founder Keith Weiner.