Getting Into Linux

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Xan
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by Xan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm

I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by PrimalToker » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:08 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:52 pm
How many forums users here are regular Linux users? I've noted in some other threads that I've switched to Ubuntu Linux and am wanting to learn more.

What kind of learning resources or tips and tricks do resident experts here perhaps have to share?

Also, what can make switching from MacOS web development to Linux web development easier?

My biggest gripe so far is the lack of a turnkey backup solution like Time Machine in MacOS. Also, there is no Microsoft Visual Studio Code, so I've elected to use Atom as my IDE. It's not as good, though.

Hopefully, once I'm truly comfortable with Linux I will no longer be hostage to expensive Apple hardware.

Please, share your Linux wisdom with me!
I have been using OpenSUSE since 2009, back when I switched from Windows XP. I have never used Mac. OpenSUSE has a filesystem backup built in, you can easily revert the system back to where it was before the update. Your personal files are separate. I don't know if thats what time machine does. I have tried almost every distro and end up back on OpenSUSE. If you want the most Mac like interface, I would use the desktop GNOME.
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l82start
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by l82start » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:34 pm

using Ubuntu and about to start experimenting with pureOS... wish me luck
"Ghislaine Maxwell didn't kill herself"

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” ― George Orwell.”
Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by technovelist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:48 pm

anato wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:13 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:27 pm

I haven't decided what I'll do then. There's a free version but I'm spoiled by all the features in the Professional version, as well as the included support incidents. I've had to use only one of those in several years but it's nice to have them available if needed.

I guess it will depend on how my project is going when they start charging.
Visual Studio Code is is light years behind VSP, especially for C/C++ development and debugging.
It "could" probably do everything you need using plugins (everything is a plugin), but the plugins suffer from the same problems as much opensource/freeware, with "free" as in "free to spend your time trying to make it work".
I had a shot at using it for simple cross-arch debugging (x32 on an x64 w/ LLVM toolset on Linux), and after 3h of swearing and useless forum posts and github tickets, I just resorted to printf...
No, I wasn't referring to Visual Studio Code, but Visual Studio Community (https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/compare/).

Either way, I'll keep doing most of my development on Windows and porting to Linux.

Fortunately, my code doesn't have a tremendous dependency on the OS; probably 1% of the code is conditionally compiled based on the OS.

Unfortunately, debugging can be extremely annoying in Linux. Kdevelop has a reasonable interface to gdb but it stops working on occasion and I've never been able to figure out what causes that.
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by technovelist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm
I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
I like the idea of Linux but the implementation is quite painful when I'm trying to do software development.

And do you understand every line of code in that millions-of-lines code base that makes up Linux? How do you know it isn't spying on you too?
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by Xan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm

technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm
I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
I like the idea of Linux but the implementation is quite painful when I'm trying to do software development.

And do you understand every line of code in that millions-of-lines code base that makes up Linux? How do you know it isn't spying on you too?
Well:
* There isn't any particular "owner" to report back to.
* I can observe my network traffic.
* It's certainly better than using an OS that I know for sure DOES spy on me!
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technovelist
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by technovelist » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm
I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
I like the idea of Linux but the implementation is quite painful when I'm trying to do software development.

And do you understand every line of code in that millions-of-lines code base that makes up Linux? How do you know it isn't spying on you too?
Well:
* There isn't any particular "owner" to report back to.
* I can observe my network traffic.
* It's certainly better than using an OS that I know for sure DOES spy on me!
You can also observe network traffic on a Windows machine. And if you disconnect a Windows machine from the network, it would have trouble reporting back.

I'm not sure what it would be reporting anyway other than OS operations. Presumably traffic through the browser is encrypted, if I understand what "https" means. And I use Firefox, which is an open source browser.

As for my email, I'm sure the NSA is spying on it regardless of your OS.

So I'm not sure I'm in significantly more danger of being spied on than Linux users.
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by anato » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:30 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm
* There isn't any particular "owner" to report back to.
* I can observe my network traffic.
* It's certainly better than using an OS that I know for sure DOES spy on me!
There isn't a single owner to report to, but so many different entities, private individuals and companies, can contribute code to it, that it's very easy to insert chains of bugs (maybe even in different drivers) to create ad-hoc vulnerabilities. The spotty code quality of the kernel, moreover, makes it even more difficult to audit (honestly, it's a mess, with some driver or subsystem being of stellar quality, and other parts being just.... bad).
How do you know if that bug in that old driver is a "genuine" bug or something inserted to be exploited at a later time as part of a chain leading to a exploit?

So yes, with windows you know MSFT is spying on you (and the US gov), with Mac you know Apple is spying on you (and the US gov), with Linux you are pretty sure an undisclosed number of entities (including the US gov :)) is doing the same.
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:07 am

technovelist wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm
I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
I like the idea of Linux but the implementation is quite painful when I'm trying to do software development.

And do you understand every line of code in that millions-of-lines code base that makes up Linux? How do you know it isn't spying on you too?
Well:
* There isn't any particular "owner" to report back to.
* I can observe my network traffic.
* It's certainly better than using an OS that I know for sure DOES spy on me!
You can also observe network traffic on a Windows machine. And if you disconnect a Windows machine from the network, it would have trouble reporting back.

I'm not sure what it would be reporting anyway other than OS operations. Presumably traffic through the browser is encrypted, if I understand what "https" means. And I use Firefox, which is an open source browser.

As for my email, I'm sure the NSA is spying on it regardless of your OS.

So I'm not sure I'm in significantly more danger of being spied on than Linux users.
To what is NSA spying on us (me)? How are they able to process all the information in all my emails? I get 400 to 500 a day and I only deal with a small fraction of them. And, that is just me. One person. How are they keeping on top of EVERYONE?

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by technovelist » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:12 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:07 am
technovelist wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm
I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
I like the idea of Linux but the implementation is quite painful when I'm trying to do software development.

And do you understand every line of code in that millions-of-lines code base that makes up Linux? How do you know it isn't spying on you too?
Well:
* There isn't any particular "owner" to report back to.
* I can observe my network traffic.
* It's certainly better than using an OS that I know for sure DOES spy on me!
You can also observe network traffic on a Windows machine. And if you disconnect a Windows machine from the network, it would have trouble reporting back.

I'm not sure what it would be reporting anyway other than OS operations. Presumably traffic through the browser is encrypted, if I understand what "https" means. And I use Firefox, which is an open source browser.

As for my email, I'm sure the NSA is spying on it regardless of your OS.

So I'm not sure I'm in significantly more danger of being spied on than Linux users.
To what is NSA spying on us (me)? How are they able to process all the information in all my emails? I get 400 to 500 a day and I only deal with a small fraction of them. And, that is just me. One person. How are they keeping on top of EVERYONE?

Vinny
They capture all emails and phone calls. They don't analyze them until they have a reason.
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by vnatale » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:18 am

technovelist wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:12 am
vnatale wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:07 am
technovelist wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:20 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm
I'm really surprised to hear that you're into telemetry-loving Windows, Tech, rather than your-computer-belong-to-you Linux.
I like the idea of Linux but the implementation is quite painful when I'm trying to do software development.

And do you understand every line of code in that millions-of-lines code base that makes up Linux? How do you know it isn't spying on you too?
Well:
* There isn't any particular "owner" to report back to.
* I can observe my network traffic.
* It's certainly better than using an OS that I know for sure DOES spy on me!
You can also observe network traffic on a Windows machine. And if you disconnect a Windows machine from the network, it would have trouble reporting back.

I'm not sure what it would be reporting anyway other than OS operations. Presumably traffic through the browser is encrypted, if I understand what "https" means. And I use Firefox, which is an open source browser.

As for my email, I'm sure the NSA is spying on it regardless of your OS.

So I'm not sure I'm in significantly more danger of being spied on than Linux users.
To what is NSA spying on us (me)? How are they able to process all the information in all my emails? I get 400 to 500 a day and I only deal with a small fraction of them. And, that is just me. One person. How are they keeping on top of EVERYONE?

Vinny
They capture all emails and phone calls. They don't analyze them until they have a reason.
Good luck trying to analyze the many GBs of mine! I know that they do searches on key words but still. Just today trying to keep on top of an email discussion between myself and two other coworkers who are all cooperating with one another can be a difficult task in itself!



Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Getting Into Linux

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:31 am

When I chat with my brother or certain friends, I sometimes include something interesting explicitly for the NSA and marked as such. Usually if a word like bomb comes up, I say "Not that kind of bomb, NSA." Then I put in a story for them so they don't get too bored.

In my journal, I insert sporadic comments for the future cyber-entities who will eventually break all encryption when we're all dead and gone. I try to help them get a handle on what life is like as a human.
Karl Popper: Paradox of Tolerance
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