Ok, everyone, time to go Treasury-only MMFs

[Libertarian666]

Fidelity has FDLXX, which contains only T-Bills and Treasury coupons.
You can keep all your cash in it even though it isn't eligible to be a core account; you just have to buy and sell it when you need money.
I've just entered orders to do that at the open.
The money markets are going to be in turmoil.

Stay safe.

(Edited because apparently it doesn't trade intra-day. However, you can still withdraw funds and they will sell whatever is needed at the end of the day.)

[dualstow]

I did move all of my muni bonds and prime mm into treasury mm this morning.
Just because.

[yankees60]

I did move all of my muni bonds and prime mm into treasury mm this morning.
Just because.

Which specific fund did you go into it? The symbol for it? Your message here I prompting me to want to do the same right now.

Not happy that when I called Vanguard I got busy signals three straight calls in a row!

Vinny

[yankees60]

I did move all of my muni bonds and prime mm into treasury mm this morning.
Just because.

Which specific fund did you go into it? The symbol for it? Your message here I prompting me to want to do the same right now.

Not happy that when I called Vanguard I got busy signals three straight calls in a row!

Vinny

I am presently in Prime and this one - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund (VMFXX).

I want to change any of those into this one: Vanguard Treasury Money Market Fund (VUSXX).

Vinny

[dualstow]

That's it. 0011 a.k.a. VUSXX

I had recently abandoned it (leaving a small piece in) to buy my own T-Bills but right now I'll just take the convenience.
Note that you cannot use this as your settlement fund. So far, when I sell shares I see the money in my settlement fund the next day.

[yankees60]

That's it. 0011 a.k.a. VUSXX

I had recently abandoned it (leaving a small piece in) to buy my own T-Bills but right now I'll just take the convenience.
Note that you cannot use this as your settlement fund. So far, when I sell shares I see the money in my settlement fund the next day.

I just spent over an hour making as many switches as I could. I have one non-retirement account with Vanguard and then eight (!!) varied retirement accounts with them.

Any Prime fund holdings under $50,000 were put in the federal fund. Any Prime and existing federal fund over $50,000 were put into the Treasury fund.

The first retirement fund exchange gave me a scare because I was afraid I'd accidentally sold it out of my retirement account and into my non-retirement account.

That led to me to review all I'd done at least three times and to document it all at least twice.

One of the transfers, though, only is showing me that I sold. It's not allowing me to show me that I bought into the federal fund. Perhaps because I was changing settlement funds?

Oh. A MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR thank you, Dualstow! You WERE my DIRECT impetus for doing this. I have TREMENDOUS inertia when it comes to the simplest things like this (though, maybe, not so simple given that it took over an hour to execute, verify, and document all). Shortly after I saw your post about what you'd done, I told myself, "You should do this." Then shortly after, "You need to get this done today.". Then shortly later, "This IS important for you to get done today! Do it NOW!"

Glad that I've met you through here, Dualstow! Getting me to do something like this (even though that was NOT your intention) is close to a miracle! You WERE the catalyst!

Thanks again.

Vinny

[yankees60]

That's it. 0011 a.k.a. VUSXX

I had recently abandoned it (leaving a small piece in) to buy my own T-Bills but right now I'll just take the convenience.
Note that you cannot use this as your settlement fund. So far, when I sell shares I see the money in my settlement fund the next day.

I just spent over an hour making as many switches as I could. I have one non-retirement account with Vanguard and then eight (!!) varied retirement accounts with them.

Any Prime fund holdings under $50,000 were put in the federal fund. Any Prime and existing federal fund over $50,000 were put into the Treasury fund.

The first retirement fund exchange gave me a scare because I was afraid I'd accidentally sold it out of my retirement account and into my non-retirement account.

That led to me to review all I'd done at least three times and to document it all at least twice.

One of the transfers, though, only is showing me that I sold. It's not allowing me to show me that I bought into the federal fund. Perhaps because I was changing settlement funds?

Oh. A MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR thank you, Dualstow! You WERE my DIRECT impetus for doing this. I have TREMENDOUS inertia when it comes to the simplest things like this (though, maybe, not so simple given that it took over an hour to execute, verify, and document all). Shortly after I saw your post about what you'd done, I told myself, "You should do this." Then shortly after, "You need to get this done today.". Then shortly later, "This IS important for you to get done today! Do it NOW!"

Glad that I've met you through here, Dualstow! Getting me to do something like this (even though that was NOT your intention) is close to a miracle! You WERE the catalyst!

Thanks again.

Vinny

I meant to add that until when I go Permanent Portfolio this leaves me effectively with a barbell. My equity investments have remained unchanged from when I made them in January 2003 (no new investments since). All new investments since then went into Vanguard Prime money market fund or the federal money market fund. Now all those Prime money market fund and federal money market investments are sitting in what is about Vanguard's safest money market fund investments - either the federal or the treasury.

Vinny

[dualstow]

It's tech's thread, but I'm happy that I played a small role.
I look forward to the day that things are calmer and perhaps I can buy those less safe investments again.

[Tortoise]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

[pmward]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

Personally I am not too worried about repo, as the Fed has been very active in ensuring any liquidity needed is provided. I can't picture them one day deciding to let the repo markets freeze up.

[Tortoise]

Personally I am not too worried about repo, as the Fed has been very active in ensuring any liquidity needed is provided. I can't picture them one day deciding to let the repo markets freeze up.

So in MMFs, do you think commercial paper is the stuff with the highest likelihood of running into problems? I.e., "U.S. Commercial Paper" in the table I provided?

[yankees60]

It's tech's thread, but I'm happy that I played a small role.
I look forward to the day that things are calmer and perhaps I can buy those less safe investments again.

He started it but you actually took ACTION! And, for me, it was DEFINITELY the catalyst. You played no small role but a HUGE role!

Thanks again!

Vinny

[yankees60]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

In my binary way of looking at things...if I am investing for safety why not go for the ultimate safety under the current constraints I am under?

On this side of my barbell I'm not at all interested in return; strictly in safety.

Vinny

[pmward]

Personally I am not too worried about repo, as the Fed has been very active in ensuring any liquidity needed is provided. I can't picture them one day deciding to let the repo markets freeze up.

So in MMFs, do you think commercial paper is the stuff with the highest likelihood of running into problems? I.e., "U.S. Commercial Paper" in the table I provided?

Yes. I expect that federal repurchase agreements are going to be back by the Fed, just like treasuries would be backed by the treasury. But yeah I would absolutely avoid any commercial paper or corporate debt of any kind right now.

[dualstow]

It's tech's thread, but I'm happy that I played a small role.
I look forward to the day that things are calmer and perhaps I can buy those less safe investments again.

He started it but you actually took ACTION! And, for me, it was DEFINITELY the catalyst. You played no small role but a HUGE role!

Thanks again!

I'm wonderful!

[yankees60]

It's tech's thread, but I'm happy that I played a small role.
I look forward to the day that things are calmer and perhaps I can buy those less safe investments again.

He started it but you actually took ACTION! And, for me, it was DEFINITELY the catalyst. You played no small role but a HUGE role!

Thanks again!

I'm wonderful!

In this particular case you WERE! If you not written what you did I'd certainly NOT have done what I did today. I probably would have been thinking about it but would I have actually followed through?

Vinny

[dualstow]

I’m going to take a vitamin C now. You may or may not wish to emulate...

[yankees60]

I’m going to take a vitamin C now. You may or may not wish to emulate...

I have Vitamin C bottles less than an arm's length away! But they do say use by 10/07!!!!

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

I would switch to as close to all-Treasurys as you can get.
We are in uncharted territory.

[Libertarian666]

It's tech's thread, but I'm happy that I played a small role.
I look forward to the day that things are calmer and perhaps I can buy those less safe investments again.

He started it but you actually took ACTION! And, for me, it was DEFINITELY the catalyst. You played no small role but a HUGE role!

Thanks again!

Vinny

I actually took action to switch my funds, as I said in the original post.
But as long as you did the right thing, I don't care if I get the credit.

[stuper1]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

I would switch to as close to all-Treasurys as you can get.
We are in uncharted territory.

Would an ultra short term Treasury ETF count, say SHV? I can't get VUSXX because I don't have the $50k minimum in cash in any one account.

[Libertarian666]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

I would switch to as close to all-Treasurys as you can get.
We are in uncharted territory.

Would an ultra short term Treasury ETF count, say SHV? I can't get VUSXX because I don't have the $50k minimum in cash in any one account.

How about VFISX? That has a $3k minimum.

[yankees60]

A good chunk of my cash at Vanguard is in the Federal MMF as my settlement fund, and now I'm wondering if I should move it to the Treasury MMF.

Here are the current holdings of the Federal MMF (VMFXX). Looks like only 32.3% is in Treasuries and 18.7% is in the ailing repo market:

Code: Select all

Bankers Acceptances	0.0%
Certificates of Deposit	0.0%
Other	0.0%
Repurchase Agreements	18.7%
U.S. Commercial Paper	0.0%
U.S. Govt. Obligations	49.0%
U.S. Treasury Bills	32.3%
Yankee/Foreign	0.0%
Total	100.0%

Normally I think, "At least the Federal MMF is safer than the Prime MMF," but in light of all the repo market turmoil... maybe that's not quite good enough?

I would switch to as close to all-Treasurys as you can get.
We are in uncharted territory.

Would an ultra short term Treasury ETF count, say SHV? I can't get VUSXX because I don't have the $50k minimum in cash in any one account.

How about VFISX? That has a $3k minimum.

VFISX is what I've been invested in since January 2003 (from an initial investment then). But I'm not considering it ultra-safe. If you cannot get into VUSXX because of the minimum (and I could not in some of the eight retirement accounts I have with Vanguard) my next best choice and what I used today was: Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund;Investor Fund: VMFXX.

Now you are making me think what am I doing keeping that investment in VFSIX. I've always considered that part of my "fixed" investment and since I wrote earlier that I'm favoring safety over return why am I not then also exchanging that to VUSXX?

Vinny

[Tortoise]

Now you are making me think what am I doing keeping that investment in VFSIX. I've always considered that part of my "fixed" investment and since I wrote earlier that I'm favoring safety over return why am I not then also exchanging that to VUSXX?

For "deep cash" (i.e., cash that you don't need to access quickly), why not go for the safest option of all: Directly-held T-bills?

The only significant cash I hold in an MMF is taxable savings that I may need to access within less than a year (e.g., emergency funds, renovation funds, new-car funds).

[Libertarian666]

Now you are making me think what am I doing keeping that investment in VFSIX. I've always considered that part of my "fixed" investment and since I wrote earlier that I'm favoring safety over return why am I not then also exchanging that to VUSXX?

For "deep cash" (i.e., cash that you don't need to access quickly), why not go for the safest option of all: Directly-held T-bills?

The only significant cash I hold in an MMF is taxable savings that I may need to access within less than a year (e.g., emergency funds, renovation funds, new-car funds).

Yes, exactly.