German Utilities Give away power for free

[doodle]

Amazing how far America has fallen in renewable energy generation compared to Europe. This story from Germany shows how much potential there actually is...free power anyone???

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-2 ... -grid.html

[Storm]

This is exactly why we will never see realistic renewable power here in the US - crony capitalists running the entrenched power companies have already bought and paid for all the politicians they need.  We must protect the rights of Enron-style energy traders to get 7 digit annual bonuses!  Won't someone think of the millionaires?

[moda0306]

Energy economics is something I struggle with.

1) It's very infrastructural in nature.  A hob-job energy system where people pick their provider and you have different lines & gas pipes run seems awful.

2) Externalities... nothing really more to say.

3) These natural resources are from our earth.  To try to assign perfect property rights to all this is inappropriate, if not confiscatory to current and future societies.

Between all this, it would seem to indicate that there's legitimate reason for moderate if not heavy government involvement in energy, though I'm sure some will still disagree.  I don't know the details very well though, although I think nuclear would be a good compromise to move things forward and bridge the gap to other fuels.

[Reub]

Yes, the crony capitalists. Like the ones who worked at Solyndra?

[moda0306]

Reub,

Yes, like them.

I think we can admit that energy is infrastructural enough, externality-ridden enough, and natural-resource driven enough that there is bound to be what either is or appears to be "crony capitalism" in the industry.

In my state, we have one power company we must buy from.  It's heavily regulated.  Would it be better if we could choose our power company and have different lines running everywhere, as well as gas pipes?  Would it be better if it was totally controlled by the government?

I don't think the former would be ideal.  The latter may actually be better, but I'm not sure.  If there is an energy company monopoly anyway, maybe it's best run by the government, not a monopoly corporation.

Do you have any input on how this framework should work in society?

A pure market approach would say that the resources should be private, including the land, oceans, and lakes that rest over these resources, the delivery should be private, consisting of multiple gas & power lines, and that all government should do (if they even believe this, which often they don't (Ron Paul)) is capture externalities.

This seems like an issue that should dispose of terms like "crony capitalism" and have a deeper discussion on the market and gov't failures within the industry.

[Indices]

By the time we convert to a mostly natural gas economy, the price of natural gas which is finite will skyrocket and we will have no choice but to use renewables. Every year they get cheaper as well.

[moda0306]

I just hope we can develop renewables faster than we use the other stuff.

It seems to me with our big houses and long drives to work and big vehicles, most people aren't positioned to pivot well into using 50% of the natural resources they used to.

[Storm]

Yes, the crony capitalists. Like the ones who worked at Solyndra?

Yep, exactly like them.

[Reub]

Thank you. Just checking.