American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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vnatale
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American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by vnatale » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:51 pm

For those of you are Americans living in the United States and buying gold coins as part of your gold investment, where do you stand on the difference in prices between the American Eagle and the Canadian Maple Leaf? And, for what reasons do you buy one or the other.

In an email last night, I asked this question of one of the gold dealers:

"Finally, the Eagle and Maple Leaf each have the same quantity of gold, correct? What is the reason for the slight premium for the American version?"

The response I received:

"Yes, both the eagle and maple leaf are a full troy once. Do the popularity, recognition and the fact it’s USA the eagle buys and sells for a bit of a higher premium. Also the American Eagle is more private..... no reporting requirements when you choose to sell doesn’t matter how few or how many. The maple leaf is reportable on 25 coins or more."

Thanks for any responses as part of my Permanent Portfolio plan for the gold coin portion is deciding how to apportion it between the Eagles and the Maple Leafs.
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Cortopassi
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:28 pm

I look for the lowest premium, which has usually been on Krugerrands in the past. I think they are all nice looking and I have some of each. Panda's are nice too.
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vnatale
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by vnatale » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:32 pm

Regarding my question...this is additional information from Craig / Tex's book:

"For a U.S. investor, it is recommended that you buy American Eagles, Krugerrands, or Canadian Maple Leafs. While Krugerrands and Maple Leafs often sell for a lower markup than American Eagles, the American Eagle coin will normally provide a higher premium when you go to sell it (all three coins have the same one-ounce gold content). Any coin dealer will buy these coins so there is no need to worry that you'll get stuck with a coin you can't sell."

Vinny
vnatale wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:51 pm
For those of you are Americans living in the United States and buying gold coins as part of your gold investment, where do you stand on the difference in prices between the American Eagle and the Canadian Maple Leaf? And, for what reasons do you buy one or the other.

In an email last night, I asked this question of one of the gold dealers:

"Finally, the Eagle and Maple Leaf each have the same quantity of gold, correct? What is the reason for the slight premium for the American version?"

The response I received:

"Yes, both the eagle and maple leaf are a full troy once. Do the popularity, recognition and the fact it’s USA the eagle buys and sells for a bit of a higher premium. Also the American Eagle is more private..... no reporting requirements when you choose to sell doesn’t matter how few or how many. The maple leaf is reportable on 25 coins or more."

Thanks for any responses as part of my Permanent Portfolio plan for the gold coin portion is deciding how to apportion it between the Eagles and the Maple Leafs.
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ochotona
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by ochotona » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm

Maple Leafs scratch like crazy. Even rubbing them with a cotton cloth will cause damage. If you drop one on the table it will ding. On the floor... Probably it bends in half.
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by drumminj » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:11 pm

ochotona wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm
Maple Leafs scratch like crazy. Even rubbing them with a cotton cloth will cause damage. If you drop one on the table it will ding. On the floor... Probably it bends in half.
Moral of the story -- avoid fondling your gold!

Or....get a 1970s kruggerand to fondle and keep the rest in the safe.
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ochotona
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by ochotona » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:56 pm

drumminj wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:11 pm
Moral of the story -- avoid fondling your gold!
Or....get a 1970s kruggerand to fondle and keep the rest in the safe.
I keep some silver at home and fondle it. My 100 oz silver ingot.
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by dualstow » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:36 pm

ochotona wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm
Maple Leafs scratch like crazy. Even rubbing them with a cotton cloth will cause damage. If you drop one on the table it will ding. On the floor... Probably it bends in half.
^ This ^

I have one maple leaf and it's beautiful. But, krugerrands and american eagles have other metals that harden the coin, and that's worth it for long term holders.

Vinny, could you confirm that when you said "Level 4" investor you were referring to something in Craig and MT's book? (As Geaux Saints suggested in the other thread).

(edited to spell Vinny’s name properly)
Last edited by dualstow on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fri, Oct 11: Once again, I am happy for PointedStick. Last I heard, he was all in stocks.
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by vnatale » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:40 pm

Yes. Confirmed. Level 4 offers the most diversification and the most safety. Level 1 offers the least. Level 1 takes far less time to set up than Level 4.

One can start all four investments at Level 1 and then gradually increase the level of each of the investments, one at a time or all at once.

Vinny

dualstow wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:36 pm
ochotona wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm
Maple Leafs scratch like crazy. Even rubbing them with a cotton cloth will cause damage. If you drop one on the table it will ding. On the floor... Probably it bends in half.
^ This ^

I have one maple leaf and it's beautiful. But, krugerrands and american eagles have other metals that harden the coin, and that's worth it for long term holders.

Vinnie, could you confirm that when you said "Level 4" investor you were referring to something in Craig and MT's book? (As Geaux Saints suggested in the other thread).
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ochotona
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by ochotona » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:30 pm

vnatale, you asked a question in another thread about tax. Are you familiar with the special tax treatment surrounding gold, and the arguments for or against holding gold in IRAs, Roth IRAs, or taxably? I would argue that there is no one size fits all strategy, that where you place your gold is an important part of your overall taxation strategy and how you plan to take distributions in retirement. This is why one argument is to place gold in all the places, to diversify it across different type of tax treatments. That's OK, but if you have a particular angle, you should pay attention to it.

My angles are:
1. I can use physical or ETF gold as a way to make a donation to my Church. Any capital gains vanish, and I don't pay cash to Church.
2. Gold might end up, over the rest of my life, being a really strongly performing asset. Therefore, I have put lots of my physical and ETF gold in Roth IRA form, so it won't get taxed at all, and it can be passed to my heirs. Home run potential assets to Roth
3. I will have low income years age 65-70, so I can take gold capital gains at that time
4. You can tax-loss harvest with taxable gold

Basically, I don't use Traditional IRAs for gold, because Traditional IRAs might end up with you being taxed at a higher rate for gold cap gains than just selling physical. The Collectibles tax caps you at 28%. That could be useful.


Journal of Accountancy:

"For tax purposes, physical gold investments are classified as collectibles. Gains on collectibles held for one year or less are taxed as ordinary income—the same tax treatment as short-term capital gains (STCGs). Gains on collectibles held more than one year are taxed as ordinary income, except the maximum collectibles tax rate is 28%"

STATE SALES TAXES ON GOLD… BAD!!! https://www.texmetals.com/sales-tax
Don’t live in a State which taxes gold if it’s impossible to drive to a tax-free State to pick up purchases
Last edited by ochotona on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by jacksonm2 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:03 pm

I have some of both, but mostly American Eagles.
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vnatale
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by vnatale » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm

Did you have any systematic way of apportioning? Like 75% of purchases of one and 25% for the other? Or, has it been more haphazard?

Thanks

Vinny
jacksonm2 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:03 pm
I have some of both, but mostly American Eagles.
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Re: American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?

Post by jacksonm2 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:08 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm
Did you have any systematic way of apportioning? Like 75% of purchases of one and 25% for the other? Or, has it been more haphazard?

Thanks

Vinny
More haphazard than systematic, to be sure.

Bought mostly Eagles until one day I thought it would be cool to buy some other kinds and Maple Leafs were my choice.
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