Finding an Account Manager for PP

General Discussion on the Permanent Portfolio Strategy

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snedgar
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Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by snedgar » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:07 pm

I originally learned about Harry Brown and the PP in 1987 and went all-in in 2007. Along the way, "Failsafe Investing", "The Permanent Portfolio", and of course this message board have been very helpful.

At this point, I'm considering how my PP will be managed as I age and lose ability or as my wife (who has not interest) is left after I'm gone.

I expected that independent, fee-only financial planners/managers would be my best bet for potential off-loading of the management aspects of PP. However, as I have been researching and discussing with several, what I find is that most of them use some form of modern portfolio theory; and they all use some form of "canned" approach which is inconsistent with implementing the PP as I currently do.

Has anyone here found an independent manager willing and able to competently take over management of your PP?

If so, how did you go about finding them?

Thanks!
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pugchief
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:11 pm

You might want to look into one of the robo-brokers like Betterment. I think you can select an asset allocation and they will rebalance as needed automatically for you. Not sure on the details. Otherwise, a fee-only financial planner might work.
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dualstow
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by dualstow » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:18 pm

snedgar wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:07 pm
Has anyone here found an independent manager willing and able to competently take over management of your PP?
Hi snedgar (gardens?)
My accountant also does money management for the elderly, especially those who are losing their eyesight. (I don't use him for that; I'm a spring chicken). He's trustworthy because he's independently wealthy, but he only deals with clients he sees in person.

If you can find someone like that in your physical vicinity via word of mouth, someone who charges a low flat fee, that would be best.

Since that is difficult, I think the back-up plan would be what pugchief suggested. Even Vanguard is getting in on the robo-advisor game, although I don't know how much leeway they give you with regard to setting up the basic parameters. I also don't know how gold acquisition would work if you prefer coins.
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Xan
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by Xan » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:47 pm

There's M1 Finance, where you set your allocation percentages and they maintain those percentages for you. That would also be complicated by the presence of physical gold, of course.
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by Pet Hog » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:09 pm

This post might seem like a joke, but I'm serious.

If anyone wants my help to manage their PP, I'm happy to log in to your account(s) quarterly and reinvest dividends, buy the lagging asset, sell the leading asset, or fully rebalance. I'm comfortable handling individual stocks, ETFs, and mutual funds, and buying treasuries directly, but would not want to handle your physical gold. Anything I could do online would be fine. I have no qualifications as an accountant or money manager, but I understand the mechanics and tax implications of the PP and I'm discreet, honest, and trustworthy. I don't post on this forum often, but when I do it's almost always about the mathematics of the PP.

I'm 50 years old, a PhD in chemistry, self-employed, a frugal minimalist, and have followed the PP for a decade, fully invested in it since 2013. I update my PP spreadsheets daily, so I'd be on top of anything that needed a quick response. I'd charge a flat fee, probably on the order of a couple of hundred dollars a year, completely negotiable depending on the complexity of your situation.

I'm happy to help anyone from this forum, which has provided me with so much education and amusement over the years. I'm not sure I would trust a stranger on the internet either, especially one who goes by the name Pet Hog, but I'm just putting this offer out there. You never know.
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sophie
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by sophie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:00 am

This is a more important question than it seems at first glance! Snedgar, thank you for bringing it up.

We're all able to manage our investments just fine now, but what happens when you're getting up into your 80s and start getting cognitively impaired? Finances are the first place where problems start to arise, and it may not be easily detected by family members because you might look like you're managing everything else just fine.

My mother is now 83 and starting to develop Alzheimer's - I got her to visit a neurologist friend of mine and he did a formal evaluation. Plus I'm a neurologist myself, so I've spotted it earlier than most people would have. My siblings still haven't noticed anything. She's still able to drive, manage a business, take care of her house etc, but she is having increasing difficulty with finances. Which I wouldn't know anything about if I hadn't asked her.

I found that she has a good income (from real estate holdings, my father's pension & SS etc) and some savings, but ZERO cash and high expenses. She's used Morgan Stanley as her primary investment brokerage for many years (back into the 1970s when it was Dean Witter and before discount brokerages were a thing). There is an investment advisor for the past 20 years or so who knows us all very well and that she can visit in person. Nick and I are talking regularly, and it's so worth Morgan's fees to have him keeping an eye on my mother's account and handling details like reviewing her expenses with her and helping her build a cash cushion. (And no, not worried about Nick trying to sell her fancy stuff she doesn't need - he's never done that.)

Setting up with a fee-only financial planner at some point before you really need one is a good idea. The above (full service brokerage with an assigned investment advisor) may be worth considering, although I probably won't go that route myself. I would NOT rely on roboadvisors, or even someone that you can't visit in person, for this.
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ochotona
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by ochotona » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:24 pm

Great topic. Seems like a CPA should be able to do this.
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ochotona
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by ochotona » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:50 am

Snedgar, my niece is a CPA, I will ask her if she is legally allowed to do this type of work. I also want to know if she can do it for me, when I'm elderly she will still be working.
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sophie
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by sophie » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:23 am

ochotona wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:50 am
Snedgar, my niece is a CPA, I will ask her if she is legally allowed to do this type of work. I also want to know if she can do it for me, when I'm elderly she will still be working.
We had asked my uncle's accountant what he'd be willing to do, and apparently not much beyond handling tax returns. Don't know if that's typical.

Ochotona, if you gave your niece a DPOA she could definitely handle that for you if she's willing. You should have one or two backup options though, as she might have stretches of time where she's busy, not available etc. Pairing her with a financial planner might be a good way to go - sort of like the arrangement with my mother and her Morgan advisor.
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by Kbg » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:45 pm

I would imagine if a CPA handled money they would need to get the associated licenses and would be asking for more oversight and reporting requirements.
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by dualstow » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:57 pm

We need to get the word ‘fiduciary’ in here before we get to the second page. (✓ )
Protests are erupting in Iran. It’s not just about gas prices.
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ochotona
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Re: Finding an Account Manager for PP

Post by ochotona » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:42 pm

Kbg wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:45 pm
I would imagine if a CPA handled money they would need to get the associated licenses and would be asking for more oversight and reporting requirements.
You know, I'm not sure. If the CPA isn't earning a commission on the sale of securities to the client, if they are performing a pure service, rebalancing and distributing from the client's own chosen distribution, per the client's instructions, would they need the FINRA Series 7 license? If I gave a Power of Attorney to my Orange Cat, he could do that work without a Series 7 license.
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