Will Trump be Re-elected?

[Cortopassi]

I generally do not have issue with what Trump is doing.

I have a huge issue in the way he goes about what he's doing.

The Bushes got us into multiple wars that cost trillions and thousands of lives, but they were presidential about it. It sounds totally stupid, I know.

But take the latest with Iran for example. It is (IMO) mainly because of Trump and how he approaches things and blatantly lies and twists things that so many more around the world are thinking the tanker attacks were a false flag and can't take the US's word on anything.

A lot will say that he couldn't get done what he has if he didn't use his style. Possibly true. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't obsess about it, but it pains me that Americans can't agree on damn near anything anymore.

[dualstow]

I vacillate between your viewpoint, Corto, and the feeling that it's refreshing to have a Kim Jong Eun-level crazy person in the White House who keeps the rest of the world guessing. The latter feeling, however, is fleeting.

[Maddy]

I agree, Maddy. Hey, what do you think about having a cabin as your avatar, btw?

I used to have one, but a couple of years ago it disappeared. Never could figure out how to resurrect it.

[Xan]

There was a forum transition (the one before last, I think?) in which the avatars were all lost. It's easy for me to think that wouldn't have happened on my watch, but I don't know the issues that were involved. Maddy's cabin and Moda's Matthew Lesko are together in the ether somewhere. Maddy, I do hope you'll find a nice cabin picture and replace it.

[dualstow]

https://www.123rf.com/photo_61474530_st ... cabin.html

[moda0306]

Here's a challenge for anyone that is relatively certain that there's nothing Trump could do or say to change their opinion about him:

Ignore him for a month or two. At the end, see if your life was better or worse during that time. Then move forward as you wish.

Does this apply to his knuckle-dragging perma-defenders/supporters as well as the folks who dislike him? Or was this just meant as a jab at the latter?

For the record, I'm someone who is quite confident that he could do or say some things that could change my opinion of him. Trouble is, he isn't doing or saying things that far outside of what I expected of him coming into the presidency.

I'm convinced that many people would sooner sacrifice their happiness and prosperity than forgo their insane obsession with Trump. In fact, I think Trump has become a one-size-fits-all excuse for many people for their failure to do anything productive with their lives.

What about your insane obsession with "The Left?" Sounds a lot like the conservatives who b!tched about Obama for 8 years claiming he was a muslim traitor commie.

I'm sure there are plenty of Americans, including but definitely not limited to tens of millions of moronic conservatives, that substitute a focus on self-improvement for a focus on all the political wrongs they are "victims" of, and the impending doom of (insert political bogeyman here), when in reality they're just bitter and suck at life and want to point the finger at someone other than themselves. To think it's limited to liberals is a bit asinine.

[Maddy]

What about your insane obsession with "The Left?" Sounds a lot like the conservatives who b!tched about Obama for 8 years claiming he was a muslim traitor commie.

I'm sure there are plenty of Americans, including but definitely not limited to tens of millions of moronic conservatives, that substitute a focus on self-improvement for a focus on all the political wrongs they are "victims" of, and the impending doom of (insert political bogeyman here), when in reality they're just bitter and suck at life and want to point the finger at someone other than themselves. To think it's limited to liberals is a bit asinine.

My disrespect for the Left hasn't kept me from moving forward in my life. I've achieved nearly everything I wanted to and am, by at least my own standards, living the "dream life." Contrast that to an ever-increasing number of progressives, particularly in the millennial age group, who have declared it impossible to succeed in life because of all the impediments that the rest of the world has put in their paths.

[pugchief]

What about your insane obsession with "The Left?" Sounds a lot like the conservatives who b!tched about Obama for 8 years claiming he was a muslim traitor commie.

I'm sure there are plenty of Americans, including but definitely not limited to tens of millions of moronic conservatives, that substitute a focus on self-improvement for a focus on all the political wrongs they are "victims" of, and the impending doom of (insert political bogeyman here), when in reality they're just bitter and suck at life and want to point the finger at someone other than themselves. To think it's limited to liberals is a bit asinine.

My disrespect for the Left hasn't kept me from moving forward in my life. I've achieved nearly everything I wanted to and am, by at least my own standards, living the "dream life." Contrast that to an ever-increasing number of progressives, particularly in the millennial age group, who have declared it impossible to succeed in life because of all the impediments that the rest of the world has put in their paths.

^This

{Trump's} knuckle-dragging perma-defenders/supporters ...and... moronic conservatives

Don't you think that ad hominem attacks (particularly against people who aren't even here to defend themselves - or are you talking about the rest of us here?) cheapen your argument?

[Xan]

I think Moda is saying that the phenomenon of people blaming things outside their control for things going wrong in their lives is not unique to one side of the proverbial aisle. As far as how prevalent it is one place versus another, I don't know. Can anybody come up with something approaching hard numbers?

I think Moda would agree (not to speak for you!) that there are knuckle-dragging perma-supporters on both sides of the aisle as well. He was asking whether flyingpylon's suggestion applied to the pro-Trump ones.

There's no need to pile on Moda, and Moda probably could be a little better about being less abrasive. Let's stay a place where people who disagree can discuss things reasonably rather than another echo chamber.

[flyingpylon]

He was asking whether flyingpylon's suggestion applied to the pro-Trump ones.

It didn’t, because the discussion was specifically about Trump.

But generally speaking, I don’t advise that people allow things that bother them to live rent-free in their head. It doesn’t seem healthy. A guy named Harry Browne explained it better in his book “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World”.

That said, everyone needs to do what’s right for them. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what that is.

[Maddy]

He was asking whether flyingpylon's suggestion applied to the pro-Trump ones.

It didn’t, because the discussion was specifically about Trump.

But generally speaking, I don’t advise that people allow things that bother them to live rent-free in their head. It doesn’t seem healthy. A guy named Harry Browne explained it better in his book “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World”.

That said, everyone needs to do what’s right for them. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what that is.

Yeah, I've thought about Harry Brown's "How I Found Freedom" book over and over as we've seen this anti-Trump movement play out. There couldn't be a more salient example of the "traps" Harry Browne talks about, especially when it comes to what he calls "direct alternatives" and "indirect" ones. The key for him is to make individual choices that actually move us forward toward our objectives--not choices that represent futile cathartic gestures or choices that expect other people to change (or that require them to do so). Significantly, the "progressive" platform is the antithesis of everything Harry stood for.

[moda0306]

He was asking whether flyingpylon's suggestion applied to the pro-Trump ones.

It didn’t, because the discussion was specifically about Trump.

But generally speaking, I don’t advise that people allow things that bother them to live rent-free in their head. It doesn’t seem healthy. A guy named Harry Browne explained it better in his book “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World”.

That said, everyone needs to do what’s right for them. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what that is.

Yeah, I've thought about Harry Brown's "How I Found Freedom" book over and over as we've seen this anti-Trump movement play out. There couldn't be a more salient example of the "traps" Harry Browne talks about, especially when it comes to what he calls "direct alternatives" and "indirect" ones. The key for him is to make individual choices that actually move us forward toward our objectives--not choices that represent futile cathartic gestures or choices that expect other people to change (or that require them to do so). Significantly, the "progressive" platform is the antithesis of everything Harry stood for.

Well not everything. If we are discussing policy preferences, “the left,” while definitely leaving lots to be desired, is probably a bit more anti-war on average (though I’m increasingly wondering how unuseful this gap is), better on the war on drugs, and certain police-related civil liberties issues that Harry championed on a public policy level.

But to your other point I think you’re right, but I mostly discovered that, when I encountered a freshly unthinking left (they seemed ok at questioning authority til bush left), a sort of clueless libertarian submovement thinking Austrian economics was being proven correct, and the vociferously anti-Obama right wing going absolutely bat-shit.

Of course, now we have wings of both pro- and anti-Trumpers looking like utter fools.

HIFFIAUW is an amazing book imo. I mostly debate politics for sport and to overlap with other theories about people’s critical thinking skills. It’s not something I lose sleep over, but it certainly could take up less of my podcast queue.