Kids: Then and Now

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sophie
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by sophie » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 am

Wow, quite an eye opening article. The "anti-discrimination"-caused chaos in schools is nuts. So wonderful that my property taxes are going to pay for what amounts to city-provided day care.

I'm sure this former NYC teacher has better insight than I do, but I couldn't help thinking that the sentence about the kids resenting the fact that "less is expected of them" is pure, unsupported speculation. Here's another speculation: They've been taught their whole lives that they can get by in life just fine without having to subject themselves to any form of work or discipline, and that the world owes them a living. The only thing to be resented is any hint of school-imposed authority. There's really no chance that this attitude can be changed solely by public school.

Downsides of affirmative action, I guess?
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by jacksonM » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:41 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:31 am
How do you even tell
That’s how we infiltrate you, mwah ha hahhhh.
According to the most recent studies, Ashkenazi Jews have quite a lot of European DNA, so you could say they’re Caucasian.

Even if you accept these “disparities”, and I don’t know that we should — the book was never peer-reviewed— they’re just generalizations, aren’t they? And, as we continue to interbreed, any disparities will melt away.
Well, I can tell that someone like Ben Shapiro is a Jew because he wears a beanie but other than that I find it pretty hard. Adam Sandler's Hannukah song sorting this out for us was a hoot.

I didn't know Murray's findings were never peer reviewed but if they weren't maybe that's because nobody else would want to touch them with a ten foot pole. And given what happened to him and others that might have been smart.

If you've had much experience interacting with other races, are Murray's findings really that surprising? If you believe in evolution why wouldn't you expect to find disparities in IQ among racial groups?
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by stuper1 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:55 pm

I can certainly accept the possibility that one race could have a different average IQ than another race, just like some races are clearly better equipped for certain sports than other races. And at this point maybe it's good for me to advertise my self-belief that I am not consciously racist. I have friends from every continent and general racial group on earth.

Here's the question I have for the human biodiversity people who believe that some races are statistically smarter than others: if that in fact were shown to be the case, then what would we do with that information? What changes in social policy would be indicated?
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l82start
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by l82start » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm

if your ancestors were consistently starving, under constant threat from warlords or tyrants of one sort or another, had to have many kids in order for a few strong (but not necessarily the brightest) to survive ... and this has happened for generation after generation after generation.... I suspect anybody’s IQ would be lower as well.. the fact that certain races "seem" to have lower IQs may have far more to do with the above than it has to do with race, unless those factors are accounted for....
I suspect a couple generations of western living would bring IQ scores up to par or near par for any group..

(until they started to let their kids get dumbed down by a government education..)
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:09 pm

sophie wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 am
Wow, quite an eye opening article. The "anti-discrimination"-caused chaos in schools is nuts. So wonderful that my property taxes are going to pay for what amounts to city-provided day care.
Heh
I'm sure this former NYC teacher has better insight than I do, but I couldn't help thinking that the sentence about the kids resenting the fact that "less is expected of them" is pure, unsupported speculation. Here's another speculation: They've been taught their whole lives that they can get by in life just fine without having to subject themselves to any form of work or discipline, and that the world owes them a living. The only thing to be resented is any hint of school-imposed authority. There's really no chance that this attitude can be changed solely by public school.

Downsides of affirmative action, I guess?
Individuals gonna individual. A couple of my military friends refused to identify themselves as black in order to get assignments they wanted because they didn't want to feel like they didn't earn it.
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:18 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:55 pm
Here's the question I have for the human biodiversity people who believe that some races are statistically smarter than others: if that in fact were shown to be the case, then what would we do with that information? What changes in social policy would be indicated?
Social policies shouldn't limit or boost people artificially, they should let people shine or be dull based on their own characteristics and traits. That seems just, yea?

EDIT

So in this case, don't force kids to go to public schools. Let them go to charter schools if they want to.
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:38 pm

l82start wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm
if your ancestors were consistently starving, under constant threat from warlords or tyrants of one sort or another, had to have many kids in order for a few strong (but not necessarily the brightest) to survive ... and this has happened for generation after generation after generation.... I suspect anybody’s IQ would be lower as well.. the fact that certain races "seem" to have lower IQs may have far more to do with the above than it has to do with race, unless those factors are accounted for....
I suspect a couple generations of western living would bring IQ scores up to par or near par for any group..

(until they started to let their kids get dumbed down by a government education..)
It would probably help if they assimilated. For instance, Pakistanis living in the UK seem to have a problem with inbreeding and associated disorders (including low cognitive ability obviously), despite having lived there for quite a while.
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by stuper1 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:46 pm

l82start wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm

I suspect a couple generations of western living would bring IQ scores up to par or near par for any group..
How did "western living" get to be the gold-standard for civilization? Were westerners blessed with "magic dirt" as some would claim? Was it just dumb luck? Do westerners have an inherent IQ advantage?
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:53 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:31 am
How do you even tell
That’s how we infiltrate you, mwah ha hahhhh.
According to the most recent studies, Ashkenazi Jews have quite a lot of European DNA, so you could say they’re Caucasian.
jacksonM wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:41 pm
Well, I can tell that someone like Ben Shapiro is a Jew because he wears a beanie but other than that I find it pretty hard. Adam Sandler's Hannukah song sorting this out for us was a hoot.
jackson really wants to know how to tell.
dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:31 am
Even if you accept these “disparities”, and I don’t know that we should — the book was never peer-reviewed— they’re just generalizations, aren’t they?
jacksonM wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:41 pm
I didn't know Murray's findings were never peer reviewed but if they weren't maybe that's because nobody else would want to touch them with a ten foot pole. And given what happened to him and others that might have been smart.
*Shrug*
dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:31 am
And, as we continue to interbreed, any disparities will melt away.
Maybe?
If you believe in evolution why wouldn't you expect to find disparities in IQ among racial groups?
Aversion to hatefacts.
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by l82start » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:11 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:46 pm
l82start wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm

I suspect a couple generations of western living would bring IQ scores up to par or near par for any group..
How did "western living" get to be the gold-standard for civilization? Were westerners blessed with "magic dirt" as some would claim? Was it just dumb luck? Do westerners have an inherent IQ advantage?
necessity is the mother of invention ?
rising to the challenge of harsh climates opens the eyes to the possibility of achieving something other than a hungry, oppressed, dimwitted life dedicated to squeezing out a couple offspring capable of enduring the same ? ?

....just a wild guess by the way... :-\
In a free society, the last refuge of the moron is tyranny.

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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu May 16, 2019 5:56 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:55 pm
Here's the question I have for the human biodiversity people who believe that some races are statistically smarter than others: if that in fact were shown to be the case, then what would we do with that information? What changes in social policy would be indicated?
". . . the SAT will include a new measure for privilege beginning this year.

Along with scores measuring math and reading comprehension, the test will include an "adversity score" that indicates a test taker's social and economic background. College Board, the New York nonprofit that administers the test, rolled out a beta version to 50 colleges last year and found it led to greater nonwhite student enrollment" link

Image

So like, the opposite of what I suggested.
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Re: Kids: Then and Now

Post by dualstow » Thu May 16, 2019 7:58 pm

Adversity Score - that pretty sums up the extreme Left this decade.
So, this isn’t ‘The Onion’?
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