Since Finland's experiment is wrapping up, UBI is back in the press.
I'm sure it was touched on in older threads, but I always wonder -- how quickly should a new immigrant be allowed to collect?
How quickly can you leave (forever) after you collect, or rather what would be the penalty?
An older thread, with a very interesting first post - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9718&hilit=basic+income#p171819
Basic Income back in the news
Moderator: Global Moderator
Basic Income back in the news
loot "goods taken from an enemy, etc.," 1839, Anglo-Indian, from Hindi lut, from Sanskrit loptram, lotram "booty, stolen property,"fm. PIE root *reup- "to snatch"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
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boglerdude
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Re: Basic Income back in the news
So the libs want open borders and UBI...
Maybe if we also had full surveillance of public areas, to eliminate crime. its been working in Manhattan
Maybe if we also had full surveillance of public areas, to eliminate crime. its been working in Manhattan
Re: Basic Income back in the news
I was going to ask why you didn't summarize the results of the Finnish UBI trial, but I realized why when I scanned the news articles: they all say completely different things! Hilarious.
I still like the idea of UBI especially as more and more jobs get automated. For the US, I'd vote that only US citizens who are full time US residents should qualify. Children should get only a portion of the UBI until they turn 18. However, two things to fix first:
1) Children born in the US should only qualify for citizenship if at least one parent is a legal permanent resident or citizen. This is how it is in virtually the rest of the world, so cries of "that's racism!" etc are just plain ridiculous. Our current setup made sense during the settlement phase of the 17th &18th centuries and again in the 19th when we were "recovering" from the slave era, but neither of those situations apply currently.
2) Some form of universal health insurance intended to cover catastrophic situations only, by condition not by the usual deductible/copay scheme. Things like routine care, outpatient visits, basic generic medications, uncomplicated maternity, immunizations etc either get paid on a cash basis or via private insurance (which then is really more of a prepaid plan rather than insurance). Otherwise, UBI would simply end up feeding insurance companies.
Until those things are addressed we can't even talk about UBI here. Since this is approximately as likely as hell freezing over, I would guess that UBI is not ever going to happen here - or if it does it will either be too small an amount to be worthwhile, or an unmitigated disaster.
I still like the idea of UBI especially as more and more jobs get automated. For the US, I'd vote that only US citizens who are full time US residents should qualify. Children should get only a portion of the UBI until they turn 18. However, two things to fix first:
1) Children born in the US should only qualify for citizenship if at least one parent is a legal permanent resident or citizen. This is how it is in virtually the rest of the world, so cries of "that's racism!" etc are just plain ridiculous. Our current setup made sense during the settlement phase of the 17th &18th centuries and again in the 19th when we were "recovering" from the slave era, but neither of those situations apply currently.
2) Some form of universal health insurance intended to cover catastrophic situations only, by condition not by the usual deductible/copay scheme. Things like routine care, outpatient visits, basic generic medications, uncomplicated maternity, immunizations etc either get paid on a cash basis or via private insurance (which then is really more of a prepaid plan rather than insurance). Otherwise, UBI would simply end up feeding insurance companies.
Until those things are addressed we can't even talk about UBI here. Since this is approximately as likely as hell freezing over, I would guess that UBI is not ever going to happen here - or if it does it will either be too small an amount to be worthwhile, or an unmitigated disaster.
Re: Basic Income back in the news
Indeed. We’re not living in the era of fake news so much as ‘paint your own reality.’
loot "goods taken from an enemy, etc.," 1839, Anglo-Indian, from Hindi lut, from Sanskrit loptram, lotram "booty, stolen property,"fm. PIE root *reup- "to snatch"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Basic Income back in the news
I watched a recent Tim Pool video where he mentioned a story that said (I think) 70% of Americans understand news as pushing their agenda, not reporting facts.
All of humanity’s problems with coronavirus stem from a man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
- Blasé Kriegsspiel
- Blasé Kriegsspiel
Re: Basic Income back in the news
California city experiments with universal basic income
https://www.apnews.com/758f8d90cb664ba5bca303f93e46da3a
...STOCKTON, Calif. (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang wants to give cash to every American each month.
Susie Garza has never heard of Yang. But since February, she’s been getting $500 a month from a nonprofit in Stockton, California, as part of an experiment that offers something unusual in presidential politics: a trial run of a campaign promise, highlighting the benefits and challenges in real time.
https://www.apnews.com/758f8d90cb664ba5bca303f93e46da3a
loot "goods taken from an enemy, etc.," 1839, Anglo-Indian, from Hindi lut, from Sanskrit loptram, lotram "booty, stolen property,"fm. PIE root *reup- "to snatch"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
Re: Basic Income back in the news
From the piece above:
In the 1960s and 1970s, Republicans Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney oversaw four guaranteed-income experiments scattered across the country when Rumsfeld, later a defense secretary, was director of President Richard Nixon’s Office of Economic Opportunity and Cheney, the future vice president, was his deputy.
loot "goods taken from an enemy, etc.," 1839, Anglo-Indian, from Hindi lut, from Sanskrit loptram, lotram "booty, stolen property,"fm. PIE root *reup- "to snatch"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Basic Income back in the news
"A team of researchers is monitoring the participants. Their chief interest is not finances but happiness. "
They're conducting an experiment to see if giving people money makes them happy? That's fucking retar..
Wait...
except if...
"U.S. Sen. Kamala Harris, one of the top contenders for the Democratic nomination, who has a proposal to give up to $500 a month to working families. . . The Stockton experiment runs through July 2020. Researchers expect to release their first round of data this fall, when the presidential campaigns are preparing for the Iowa caucuses and state primaries."
They're conducting an experiment to see if giving people money makes them happy? That's fucking retar..
Wait...
except if...
"U.S. Sen. Kamala Harris, one of the top contenders for the Democratic nomination, who has a proposal to give up to $500 a month to working families. . . The Stockton experiment runs through July 2020. Researchers expect to release their first round of data this fall, when the presidential campaigns are preparing for the Iowa caucuses and state primaries."
All of humanity’s problems with coronavirus stem from a man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
- Blasé Kriegsspiel
- Blasé Kriegsspiel
Re: Basic Income back in the news
It's like winning the Lottery.dualstow wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:14 pmCalifornia city experiments with universal basic income
...STOCKTON, Calif. (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang wants to give cash to every American each month.
Susie Garza has never heard of Yang. But since February, she’s been getting $500 a month from a nonprofit in Stockton, California, as part of an experiment that offers something unusual in presidential politics: a trial run of a campaign promise, highlighting the benefits and challenges in real time.
https://www.apnews.com/758f8d90cb664ba5bca303f93e46da3a
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAbU1sPqIM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re: Basic Income back in the news
They say the lottery is like a voluntary tax, or the easiest way to get people to pay taxes.
loot "goods taken from an enemy, etc.," 1839, Anglo-Indian, from Hindi lut, from Sanskrit loptram, lotram "booty, stolen property,"fm. PIE root *reup- "to snatch"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
curfew - early 14c., curfeu, "evening signal, ringing of a bell at a fixed hour" as a signal to extinguish fires and lights, ... from Old French cuevrefeu, literally "cover fire"
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Kriegsspiel
- Executive Member
- Posts: 2493
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm
Re: Basic Income back in the news
All of humanity’s problems with coronavirus stem from a man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
- Blasé Kriegsspiel
- Blasé Kriegsspiel
Re: Basic Income back in the news
You know you're in trouble when the best example you can think of for an even more rigorous and stressful degree than your own (that hospitalized you from stress) is the widowmaker otherwise known as English literature. This is either pure clickbait, a supreme example of the campus bubble, a stealth conservative push to mock supporters of UBI, or genuine grounds for the author to sue for being ripped off for his "creative non-fiction" degree.Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:29 amhttps://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... ic-income/
Apparently not satire.
Mechanical engineer, history buff, treasure manager... totally not Ben Gates