The Lively HSA

General Discussion on the Permanent Portfolio Strategy

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:14 pm

sophie wrote:As a public service announcement: DBA is not a substitute for gold.

Two of the three funds I hold at TD Ameritrade are not commission free (VTI and IAU). I trade rarely enough in the HSA that I don't worry too much about this - except it does make me less likely to want to split up new contributions into the 4 allocations; I'm choosing to buy the lagging asset instead so I only have to pay one fee instead of 3.
I understand it not being gold, it just seems like an interesting asset class. Crops are bountiful because of a multiyear string of good weather, and required energy inputs are cheap. Those conditions won't last forever.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4477
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by pugchief » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:49 pm

ochotona wrote:The US government just lowered the 2018 HSA contribution limit by $50, because of chained CPI. Don't contribute as much as you thought you could, or else you will face a penalty.

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/ ... limit.aspx
This only applies to family limits; the individual limit remains unchanged.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4477
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by pugchief » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:19 pm

Anyone else have problems with the rollover? The TDAmeritrade went quickly, but Lively has asked twice for the cash account money and it still has not been sent. >:(
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:27 am

My DiscoverBenefits old HSA came over within two weeks. You might have to use the source custodian's forms, not Lively's forms. I had to do that.

I am now waiting for my final $600 to move over.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4418
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:44 am

My HSA Bank cash account funds came through last week. If you're also with HSA Bank you might want to call them. You started this before I did and it seems odd that yours is still held up - something must be wrong.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4477
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by pugchief » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:18 am

I did an online chat with HSA bank this morning. She says the funds will be transferring 'soon'. It has been 2 days short of 6 weeks since the request, and she said it can take up to 6 weeks to complete.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:10 pm

Money is sticky isn't it.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Old HSA to Lively in 10 days.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4418
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:28 am

Lively sent out an email yesterday announcing a brilliant but maybe questionable HSA "hack": if you are under age 26 and covered under your parents' high deductible family plan but not a dependent on your parents' tax return, you can make the full family contribution to your own HSA. It seems the HSA criteria don't include any test to guarantee one HSA per HDHP; all HDHP covered members, according to Lively, can contribute to their own HSA as long as they meet the letter of the IRS's list of 4 tests.

This seems unlikely to stand a real test from the IRS. Not to mention that I don't really want them to be drawing attention to HSAs, which as it is are almost too good to be left intact in future budget negotiations.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:21 am

I found a ultrashort bond ETF on the TD Ameritrade side of Lively HSA that I am going to stick new money into until I rebalance. It's iShares floating rate bonds, symbol FLOT. The dividend is 1.54%, which will adjust upward as the Fed tightens, and the share price is much more stable than regular bonds.

It trades commission free if you hold it for more than 30 days at TD.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4418
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:08 am

Nice, thanks ochotona!

Gives me a bit of incentive to tackle the periodic Optum to Lively transfer (my employer uses Optum). Has anyone tried this yet? I remember someone else's employer uses Optum.
User avatar
foglifter
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:37 pm
Location: The Golden State

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by foglifter » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:02 am

sophie wrote:Nice, thanks ochotona!

Gives me a bit of incentive to tackle the periodic Optum to Lively transfer (my employer uses Optum). Has anyone tried this yet? I remember someone else's employer uses Optum.
My employer uses Optum and while I haven't tried recurring transfers I did a couple of manual transfers per year in 2016-2017 and Optum didn't charge me anything. I actually called Optum and asked them about transfer fees, they said they only charge for the full account transfer combined with account closure. They don't charge for partial transfers.

Good news: as was promised, Lively finally added the ability to set up transfers and rollovers to their website. No more PDF form filling/signing. I'll try the new feature later this year.
"Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business, and a third let him keep in reserve."
- Talmud
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Thu May 03, 2018 4:01 pm

The IRS changed the HSA limit again
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4418
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Sat May 12, 2018 8:38 am

I used the new transfer form to snarf funds from my employer (Optum) account. It was super easy, just had to provide the account info online and then e-sign it, then the funds magically appeared. No fee that I'm aware of from Optum, but I was careful to leave some money in the account to prevent them closing it. The fund transfer took a little over a week.

Hopefully they'll keep the account info handy so next time will be even easier, but even so it sure beats the usual process of printing out and mailing a form, waiting 6 weeks, calling to ask what became of it, and re-sending because it got lost.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sat May 12, 2018 6:26 pm

I'm liking the TD Ameritrade trading platform. The conditional orders are cool.
User avatar
foglifter
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:37 pm
Location: The Golden State

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by foglifter » Mon May 14, 2018 12:46 pm

sophie wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:38 am
I used the new transfer form to snarf funds from my employer (Optum) account. It was super easy, just had to provide the account info online and then e-sign it, then the funds magically appeared. No fee that I'm aware of from Optum, but I was careful to leave some money in the account to prevent them closing it. The fund transfer took a little over a week.

Hopefully they'll keep the account info handy so next time will be even easier, but even so it sure beats the usual process of printing out and mailing a form, waiting 6 weeks, calling to ask what became of it, and re-sending because it got lost.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Sophie! Good to know they didn't charge for the partial transfer. I'm planning to move my balance soon, just have to be careful and leave a few bucks in the Optum account.
"Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business, and a third let him keep in reserve."
- Talmud
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Wed May 30, 2018 10:39 pm

HealthEquity to Lively HSA took 3 weeks end-to-end
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:39 pm

I had a change of employers... looks like the new employer offers an FSA, but no HSA! Darn it!
User avatar
foglifter
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:37 pm
Location: The Golden State

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by foglifter » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:42 am

ochotona wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:39 pm
I had a change of employers... looks like the new employer offers an FSA, but no HSA! Darn it!
Are you sure? These days almost everyone offers HDHP plans. Sometimes plan names include something like "HDHP" or "HSA compatible"...
"Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business, and a third let him keep in reserve."
- Talmud
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:27 am

That is true, they do have an HDHP. But, if the employer does not do the HSA funding by a payroll deduction, you don't get that contribution shielded from tax. If I decide not to use the FSA then I can make my own HSA contributions, but then HSA is like a Roth IRA, I don't get all of the tax benefits.

I hope I'm wrong. I have not seen the formal enrollment materials yet, I've had a verbal offer. I will find out next week.
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4418
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:34 am

That is annoying, but the tax benefit is small potatoes. You can partially make up for it by making your full contribution on January 1, but don't let this dissuade you from the HDHP.

Just to make sure I'm still picking the right health plan, I made myself a little excel calculator and plugged in numbers for premiums, deductions, expenses, copays, and of course, the tax benefit of the HSA contribution. The difference was astounding, and it didn't even account for the future benefits of the HSA. No matter how much I fiddled with potential expenses, the HDHP cost me thousands less than the non-HDHP plans. Going with a non-HDHP plan at my employer is seriously failing the IQ test. You might try something similar with your plan options.
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:49 am

It's a small firm I'm going to, and I can talk to the owner about it, I'm sure he wants to get wealthier also.
User avatar
foglifter
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:37 pm
Location: The Golden State

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by foglifter » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:50 pm

ochotona wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:49 am
It's a small firm I'm going to, and I can talk to the owner about it, I'm sure he wants to get wealthier also.
Sophie is right, I came to the same conclusions over and over again. I'm in a small firm as well and they even asked me to do a presentation on HSAs since I was the only one with a substantial experience using HSA. We don't have employer match but still HDHP plan works the best for almost anyone. People who used traditional low deductible plans for years sometimes have hard time to get used to higher deductibles, although they are shelling out tons of money in premiums - regardless of the amount of healthcare they use in a year.

I'd say it might be even easier to champion things like HSA or 401k at a small firm. I successfully did the latter a couple years ago by convincing my boss to move our retirement plan from the lousy plan offered by our benefits provider to Employee Fiduciary.

I think it might be a matter of getting your boss better educated on the options available, I doubt there is any roadblock to adding HSA-qualified high-deductible plan into your medical insurance benefits. My daughter works as an underwriter for a major medical insurance company and as employees they are offered only HDHP plans.

Regarding funding your HSA from the bank account vs. payroll contributions: if your AGI is less than the IRS threshold for social security contributions you miss out on FICA tax deduction (SS and Medicare). However if you AGI exceeds the threshold by at least the annual HSA contribution limit you only lose tax deduction on 1.45% Medicare contribution (which has no threshold) - this could be a wash or you might even come ahead if your employer-provided HSA is a 0-earning cash account with no investment options (you could contribute a lump sum in January in your Lively HSA and invest the whole amount at TDA). You need to assess the costs as well - my employer-provided HSA charges me $2.50 monthly fee, but Lively charges the same for TDA brokerage.
"Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business, and a third let him keep in reserve."
- Talmud
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3214
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:09 pm

So if I have an HDHP, can't I contribute to my Lively HSA by myself, report on Form 8889, enter amount on Form 1040 Line 25, and have my AGI reduced by $8000 for 2019? I am old enough to do the catch-up.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 3377
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: The Lively HSA

Post by Xan » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:30 pm

ochotona wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:09 pm
So if I have an HDHP, can't I contribute to my Lively HSA by myself, report on Form 8889, enter amount on Form 1040 Line 25, and have my AGI reduced by $8000 for 2019? I am old enough to do the catch-up.
That's how I've always done it. I didn't know there was another way, actually.
Post Reply