The Psychology of Money

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technovelist
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by technovelist » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:42 pm
technovelist wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:21 pm
pugchief wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Dude, if the $12,000 RE taxes are a third of your spending in retirement, you're not spending enough. My goal is not to leave a huge inheritance for my kids. Something, sure, but they can bust heir own asses like I did.
Yes, but think of all he gets for that $12k! There's, um, hmm, I'm pretty sure there is something!

By comparison, we pay about $2k a year in real estate taxes, for which we get:
1. Publik skools, which we have never used and will never use (most of the taxes);
2. County roads and sheriff services, which we do use (the former fairly often and the latter very rarely);
3. A hospital, which we have used on occasion.

Somehow I doubt he is getting 6x as much as we are in services, but maybe he is.
Taxes are $10,200. 66% is for the school districts. Up until last week, I had two kids in them, now one. Have they been worth $6700 a year? Absolutely. Will I want to pay it when they are both done? No.

If the system ever changes to where users of specific services pay a surcharge during the years the service is used, like schools, and when done using, taxes go to a much lower level, I would have done that, and would do that. And it would allow me to stay in the area.
I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
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pugchief
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by pugchief » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:44 am

technovelist wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:21 pm
Yes, but think of all he gets for that $12k! There's, um, hmm, I'm pretty sure there is something!

By comparison, we pay about $2k a year in real estate taxes, for which we get:
1. Publik skools, which we have never used and will never use (most of the taxes);
2. County roads and sheriff services, which we do use (the former fairly often and the latter very rarely);
3. A hospital, which we have used on occasion.

Somehow I doubt he is getting 6x as much as we are in services, but maybe he is.
No argument that real estate taxes here are high; they are highest in the nation right now, actually. But income taxes are relatively low here [ya, I know they are zero in TX]. The reality is that the gubmint is going to extract the money from somewhere to pay its bills. Choose your poison. Not sure where TX is getting it, but it isn't just materializing from thin air. Do your taxes include world-class parks and libraries?

Anyway, my point was that I don't think Corto is planning on living on $36,000 a year in retirement (maybe I'm wrong), not that $12,000 is a good value.
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pugchief
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by pugchief » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:48 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:42 pm
Taxes are $10,200. 66% is for the school districts. Up until last week, I had two kids in them, now one. Have they been worth $6700 a year? Absolutely. Will I want to pay it when they are both done? No.

If the system ever changes to where users of specific services pay a surcharge during the years the service is used, like schools, and when done using, taxes go to a much lower level, I would have done that, and would do that. And it would allow me to stay in the area.
There's the rub. The reason the public schools are so good is because everyone living in the district pays for them, even if they aren't using them. You pay for fire protection even if your house doesn't burn down every year. This also keeps your property values high. My daughter is looking for a house now, and the same house in a suburb or two to the east is way less $ because the schools are not as good, particularly at the elementary level.
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by pugchief » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:50 am

technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am
I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
What if they can't afford to? Or choose not to? Isn't it better for society to have everyone educated?
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by sophie » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:53 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:42 pm
technovelist wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:21 pm

Yes, but think of all he gets for that $12k! There's, um, hmm, I'm pretty sure there is something!

By comparison, we pay about $2k a year in real estate taxes, for which we get:
1. Publik skools, which we have never used and will never use (most of the taxes);
2. County roads and sheriff services, which we do use (the former fairly often and the latter very rarely);
3. A hospital, which we have used on occasion.

Somehow I doubt he is getting 6x as much as we are in services, but maybe he is.
Taxes are $10,200. 66% is for the school districts. Up until last week, I had two kids in them, now one. Have they been worth $6700 a year? Absolutely. Will I want to pay it when they are both done? No.

If the system ever changes to where users of specific services pay a surcharge during the years the service is used, like schools, and when done using, taxes go to a much lower level, I would have done that, and would do that. And it would allow me to stay in the area.
Actually there's a few things left off your list:
1. Police, fire, and rescue squad services.
2. Public parks, hiking/biking trails, other outdoor venues (e.g. in NYC we have things like outdoor movies, concerts, kayak launches, community gardens, public pools & skating rinks, tennis courts etc).
3. Street cleaning, wastewater treatment, trash pickup, municipal composting, reservoirs etc. Some of this may be covered by trash & water bills.
4. Public transit (subways, buses, water taxi, light rail, commuter rail). The cost of this is only partially covered by fares.
5. Random stuff that doesn't fit into above categories, like the suicide prevention measures for the George Washington Bridge (seriously).
6. Municipal court system and city government. I suppose some might not consider the latter to be a benefit :-)

Obviously it all depends on which of these services you have, but it still kind of amazes me that property taxes can be so drastically different between locations. It's usually explained as due to cost of living, but that can't even come close to explaining the differences.

Cortopassi - Many municipalities have senior citizen discounts for property taxes. It's usually not well advertised so you need to do some investigating.
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Cortopassi
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by Cortopassi » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:58 am

technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am

I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
Let me get democratic/socialist/communist on you here, but not everyone has high paying jobs and this would seem by default to not allow many families to improve their situation through education. This likely wouldn't have worked for that Italian immigrant with a 7th grade education to end up with sons who are an orthodontist and an engineer (my case).

It might have, sure, but seems less likely for a minimum wage immigrant to afford to live and pay for good schools.
---------------------
Sophie, there are senior citizen's freeze/exemptions available here.
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by Desert » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:27 am

pugchief wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:48 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:42 pm
Taxes are $10,200. 66% is for the school districts. Up until last week, I had two kids in them, now one. Have they been worth $6700 a year? Absolutely. Will I want to pay it when they are both done? No.

If the system ever changes to where users of specific services pay a surcharge during the years the service is used, like schools, and when done using, taxes go to a much lower level, I would have done that, and would do that. And it would allow me to stay in the area.
There's the rub. The reason the public schools are so good is because everyone living in the district pays for them, even if they aren't using them. You pay for fire protection even if your house doesn't burn down every year. This also keeps your property values high. My daughter is looking for a house now, and the same house in a suburb or two to the east is way less $ because the schools are not as good, particularly at the elementary level.
Yeah, that's right. Public education cost averages a whopping $12,000 per student, per year, nationwide. A good school in the Chicago metro likely costs a lot more than that. A family with three kids would be shelling out $36+K per year to send their kids to school if they had to pay the entire cost while the kids were in school.

One way to look at it is that we pay for other peoples' kids to go to school so they can pay for our roads, police, SS, etc. when we're old.
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by hardlawjockey » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:46 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:50 am
technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am
I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
What if they can't afford to? Or choose not to? Isn't it better for society to have everyone educated?
When and where I grew up, the prevailing thought seemed to be that the children paid for their own education, perhaps with a little help from their parents if they were well off (which not many were where I grew up). My own parents bought an off-campus boarding house as an investment that paid for itself and gave us a place to stay for free. Beyond that we were expected to work and save to pay all of the other expenses (and if I remember correctly, the tuition for my first quarter was only $250 - but a lot of money working as a busboy at $.85/hour).

God I'm old.
technovelist
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by technovelist » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:07 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:50 am
technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am
I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
What if they can't afford to? Or choose not to? Isn't it better for society to have everyone educated?
1. If someone chooses not to pay for their children's education, why should I do so?
2. If they can't do it, which would be VERY unusual without the enormous overhead imposed by today's bureaucratic nightmare of public school systems, that would be up to charitable organizations. Would you contribute to such an organization? If not, why not?
3. I'm certain that society would be far better off if everyone got to spend his own money the way he wants to. That's called "freedom".
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by technovelist » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:09 pm

hardlawjockey wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:46 pm
pugchief wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:50 am
technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am
I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
What if they can't afford to? Or choose not to? Isn't it better for society to have everyone educated?
When and where I grew up, the prevailing thought seemed to be that the children paid for their own education, perhaps with a little help from their parents if they were well off (which not many were where I grew up). My own parents bought an off-campus boarding house as an investment that paid for itself and gave us a place to stay for free. Beyond that we were expected to work and save to pay all of the other expenses (and if I remember correctly, the tuition for my first quarter was only $250 - but a lot of money working as a busboy at $.85/hour).

God I'm old.
I doubt you are much older than I am; maybe a few years at most.

My first job paid $1.25/hour, and my first "real" job paid about twice that.
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Cortopassi
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Re: The Psychology of Money

Post by Cortopassi » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:00 pm

technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:07 pm
pugchief wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:50 am
technovelist wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:33 am
I have a much simpler solution: parents pay for their children's education.
What if they can't afford to? Or choose not to? Isn't it better for society to have everyone educated?
1. If someone chooses not to pay for their children's education, why should I do so?
2. If they can't do it, which would be VERY unusual without the enormous overhead imposed by today's bureaucratic nightmare of public school systems, that would be up to charitable organizations. Would you contribute to such an organization? If not, why not?
3. I'm certain that society would be far better off if everyone got to spend his own money the way he wants to. That's called "freedom".
tech, I wonder if you are actually an anarchist guy I know... ;)

I guess it is called society. I am happy to pay for roads, for schools, for snow removal, for police, for fire, etc. There are costs to living in a society. Of course it is not as efficient as it could be but with instant information of the internet, it actually seems to be getting better. Scams, corruption, etc are exposed much more often and in real time, so I have hope.
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