Gold Coin Counterfeit Detectors

[eufo]

I'm contemplating selling all my paper gold in my Roth IRA, which demands another thread that I'll start, since I value the input of the participants of this forum.

To replace the paper, I will be purchasing enough physical gold that I feel like I need to be concerned about testing for fakes.

I don't know that I could ever trust a bar of gold since I've seen a couple of videos of how the bar can pass all standard tests, but be filled with tungsten. The bar must be opened up to discover it being a fake.

And while tungsten can also be found in some coins, they cannot pass a ping test. Meaning, they cannot mimic the sound of a legitimate gold coin.

I've found two detectors that look pretty good, but with a huge price difference:

https://goldcoinbalance.com - $24 and will do American Eagles, Buffalos, Krugerrands, Maples, Kangaroos, Pandas, Philharmonics. Tests for weight, diameter, and width.

https://www.thefisch.com/ - $329 for all the wallets that will test the above gold coins (except Pandas). To be fair, there are multiple tools for measuring smaller than 1 oz coins as well. If you purchase a wallet, you can get their ping tool for $39, otherwise it sells for $89.

What do you all use?

[ochotona]

I have the goldcoinbalance and I ping them

[Tortoise]

I have the goldcoinbalance but haven't had a chance to "battle test" it yet since I bought it after my last gold coin purchase and haven't bought any new coins in years. I definitely plan to use it when I purchase my next coins.

[...] and I ping them

Do you mean you just use your ears to compare the sound to that of a known gold coin when you ring them both? Or do you use an app to analyze the audio spectrum of the ring?

[hardlawjockey]

I bought the gold coin balance early on when I started collecting bullion coins. At the time it came with a guarantee because no coin had ever been produced that could deceive it and they offered to buy the fake coin for the market price if that ever happened. Last I heard, they withdrew that offer because a tungsten coin had, indeed, passed the physical test. They did point out, however, that a visual inspection of the same coin would have proved it to be a fake and explained why and what to look for.

So I guess if you are trying to separate the chaff from the wheat, the balance would be a good place to start in eliminating the obvious fakes but that would only mean they passed the first test and it still wasn't completely guaranteed. If you are buying from a reputable coin dealer whose reputation is on the line if they ever sold a fake coin, you probably don't even need the coin balance except for providing some peace of mind if you are truly skeptical. If you intend to buy from less reputable dealers or are a true skeptic then I guess you would have to invest in some more advanced technology.

[eufo]

UPDATE:

I have ordered the GoldCoinBalance tonight. I shouldn't be this excited to get a $24 piece of plastic, but there we are.

I only plan on ordering through reputable dealers, but I am a skeptic at heart and like to double check everything. I have placed my first order with APMEX and am looking forward to fondling.

[ochotona]

I just pinged the gold coin and listen with my ear, not with an app. My understanding is that a tungsten coin will make a thud or thunk sound instead of ringing

[dualstow]

I like the Balance very much, but I look forward to the ping test again someday. (Coins are in a bank vault). I did ping them a little bit once after Mark Leavy’s passionate post.

[eufo]

UPDATE:

Received my APMEX order today and am very happy with the way they handled the shipment. Nowhere on the box or label is there any indication of the shipper or what contents may lie inside. This should be an obvious way to do things, but I was still worried that it might say APMEX right on the shipping label.

The gold coin balance was easy and worked perfectly. I pinged the coins, but I'm not too good at it. It sounds much louder in videos I've watched, but I can still hear a distinct (albeit quiet) ringing.

[Libertarian666]

UPDATE:

Received my APMEX order today and am very happy with the way they handled the shipment. Nowhere on the box or label is there any indication of the shipper or what contents may lie inside. This should be an obvious way to do things, but I was still worried that it might say APMEX right on the shipping label.

The gold coin balance was easy and worked perfectly. I pinged the coins, but I'm not too good at it. It sounds much louder in videos I've watched, but I can still hear a distinct (albeit quiet) ringing.

I assume every gold dealer knows not to put their name on the label, even when sending via registered insured mail (as I assume they all do). Why ask for trouble?

[dualstow]

Apmex has always been good to me as well.

[Ad Orientem]

Your best protection against counterfeiting is to always buy from highly reputable dealers. From above I see you ordered from APMEX. They have been in business for a long time and have a stellar reputation. They tend to get a lot of their products directly from the respective mints and last I heard they check everything they acquire from other sources. On a scale of 1-5 I'd say your risk level here is 1. Ditto some of the other well known big dealers like Kitco. My dealings with APMEX have always been completely satisfactory and I have never heard anything untoward about them.

[eufo]

Your best protection against counterfeiting is to always buy from highly reputable dealers.

This seems to be the general consensus and I agree.

However, because I'm the ultimate in paranoia, I picked up a SigmaMetalytics Precious Metal Verifier Pro. I have to say, it's finally given me the peace of mind that I needed. I've only used it with gold and silver, but it's quite simple and thorough.

[Lonestar]

In addition to buying from highly reputable dealers, how about only buying new issue American Eagles (2018) not random year coins? If the dealer is authorized affiliate of the Mint, you are essentially getting coins directly from the Mint eliminating the risk of counterfeit coins. Is my thinking flawed?

[yankees60]

Your best protection against counterfeiting is to always buy from highly reputable dealers.

This seems to be the general consensus and I agree.

However, because I'm the ultimate in paranoia, I picked up a SigmaMetalytics Precious Metal Verifier Pro. I have to say, it's finally given me the peace of mind that I needed. I've only used it with gold and silver, but it's quite simple and thorough.

Anyone else own one of these.

From looking here at the prices of various components related to it, it looks like it is fairly expensive?

https://sigmametalytics.com/PMVPro/

Vinny

[dualstow]

No. I have this piece of plastic that Craig recommended maybe 10 years ago. It works fine, although I don’t even really test coins anymore. These days I buy new ones from Apmex instead of random year, b/c I buy so few.

[ppnewbie]

If your really going to invest in precious metals (silver bars, gold bars, and bullion) It seems like the best thing to do would be to get a sigma metalytics. I think it has a wand to test bars and settings for the different types of coins (Eagles, Buffalos, etc. I’ve been thinking about getting one myself. My local coin shop uses it as well.

[yankees60]

If your really going to invest in precious metals (silver bars, gold bars, and bullion) It seems like the best thing to do would be to get a sigma metalytics. I think it has a wand to test bars and settings for the different types of coins (Eagles, Buffalos, etc. I’ve been thinking about getting one myself. My local coin shop uses it as well.

From the web site I cited could you determine what would be the minimum amount you'd need to spend to do what you wanted it to do?

Vinny

[ppnewbie]

OK so I am no expert here but I believe this is the setup my local coin shop uses when I buy eagles and buffalos. But I have never seen them use the wand because I have not purchased any bars. I think the price differences are based on the wands. If you are only buying coins, then I think the $625 option works.

https://sigmametalytics.com/purchase/pm ... ption.html
https://sigmametalytics.com/purchase/or ... l-pmv.html

I see them on ebay as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sigma-Metalyti ... SwZ1BXf8MV

[dualstow]

I just realized another reason I haven’t tested coins lately. Many of them remain sealed! I have never unsealed them. So, that rules out the goldCoinBalance mentioned on page one.

If one of these gizmos can examine the gold right through the plastic...I still wouldn’t spring for it. $625. I don’t have enough gold to justify it.

[yankees60]

OK so I am no expert here but I believe this is the setup my local coin shop uses when I buy eagles and buffalos. But I have never seen them use the wand because I have not purchased any bars. I think the price differences are based on the wands. If you are only buying coins, then I think the $625 option works.

https://sigmametalytics.com/purchase/pm ... ption.html
https://sigmametalytics.com/purchase/or ... l-pmv.html

I see them on ebay as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sigma-Metalyti ... SwZ1BXf8MV

Thanks. I did see that there were a lot being sold at eBay. But I don't like buying things on eBay that I don't know anything about so I did not go there at all.

Vinny

[Ad Orientem]

I don't think I have been on ebay since the number at the top of the calendar started with one and nine.

[ppnewbie]

To me these make sense if someone starts buying multi oz and kilo bars.

[yankees60]

I don't think I have been on ebay since the number at the top of the calendar started with one and nine.

It can be an excellent place to buy things if you know what you are buying, i.e., what is a good buy.

Vinny

[StJohnVianney]

Goldcoinbalance is no longer guaranteed against American Eagles or Krugerrands and since platinum no longer costs more than gold, it might not work against any gold coin.

From goldcoinbalance.com: "Other cheap metals such as zinc, copper or steel are even lighter than lead. There are only two metals that come close to gold in weight. Platinum, which costs more than gold, and Tungsten, which is so brittle it can't be stamped into a coin."

[dualstow]

Goldcoinbalance is no longer guaranteed against American Eagles or Krugerrands and since platinum no longer costs more than gold, it might not work against any gold coin.

From goldcoinbalance.com: "Other cheap metals such as zinc, copper or steel are even lighter than lead. There are only two metals that come close to gold in weight. Platinum, which costs more than gold, and Tungsten, which is so brittle it can't be stamped into a coin."

Very interesting. I doubt that thieves are going to stock up on platinum to rip people off, but who knows what they're going to come up with next.