Trump as tragicomedy

[ochotona]

In my humble opinion, the biggest acute threat to US security by far is that Islamic terrorists get ahold of a nuclear weapon and detonate it in a large US city. I hope and pray that our people are much more focused on trying to stop that than worrying about Russia or North Korea attacking us. We should definitely be working with Russia to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists, because Russia has the same concern.

Islamic terrorists would be buying it from North Korea, very likely. In exchange for a pallet loaded with gold.

or from N Korea by way of Iran for a pallet load of cash that they got from ...somewhere...

[Kriegsspiel]

The whole idea that Russia is a credible threat to the U.S. is laughable on its face, and thus it seems obvious to me that it's just another bogeyman manufactured by the establishment media on behalf of the military-industrial complex.

In capability, or intent?

Seems like a curious statement, regardless.

Both. What is their annual budget for military spending versus ours? Of course, they still have nuclear weapons, and so do we. Mutually Assured Destruction still applies.

A lot of US military spending is wasted (Smedley would agree, I think), whereas the Russian budget is more constrained and wisely spent. The Russians have good electronic warfare capabilities, and good psyops and information operations. They also have a lot of organized crime and computer geeks. Software, like bombs, can damage nuclear plants, electrical grids, corporations, government agencies. Basically, warfare probably won't look like it has in the past. So that's why I think it's naive to think Russia has laughable capabilities.

Regarding intent, are we seriously afraid that Putin is going to invade America? It's just laughable.

Of course, they are tinkering around the edges to try to get an advantage militarily and/or economically, but we do the same to them, and every other major country in the world does it too, even to their allies.

LOL, yes. They wouldn't charge into our teeth like retards. Russia is not capable of invading and occupying the US like they did with Crimea, and they certainly don't want to. If their intent is to damage the US, there are tactics with much lower risk and higher upside to employ. I think this is what you meant by "tinkering around the edges," but where our opinions differ is that I think the "tinkering" stuff has become powerful enough to be a viable tactic in its own right. Talking, again, about psyops, hacking/sabotage, special operations.

We might just be talking past each other in what our definitions of "threats" are.

The Cold War is over. We aren't fighting the specter of worldwide Communism anymore, although even that was mainly just a pretense.

It seems like you are still thinking like a Cold Warrior, wrt budgets, nuclear weapons.

We actually have a lot in common culturally with Russia. There is no reason for us to be in conflict with them.

Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too I think we'd both agree that the US and Russia have common enemies (Islamists) that we could work together against.

[stuper1]

Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too

There was no need for a war with Germany and Italy in the 1940s either. War is a racket.

[Libertarian666]

Americans had a lot in common with Germany and Italy in the 1940s too

There was no need for a war with Germany and Italy in the 1940s either. War is a racket.

Correct.

[dualstow]

LOL, yes. They wouldn't charge into our teeth like retards. Russia is not capable of invading and occupying the US like they did with Crimea

So no Red Dawn?

[Kriegsspiel]

It gets a Kriegsspielian "unlikely" rating

[Maddy]

Further to Moda's request for a "source" establishing the absence of evidence sufficient to initiate an investigation, the following testimony provided by FBI Director Christopher Wray at a House Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday would seem to pretty much settle the issue:

Two simple questions: How did the FBI's Russia investigation start? And was it started because the Trump "dossier" was presented to somebody at the FBI?

Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) asked FBI director Christopher Wray those questions at a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday, but he got no answers:

"How did the Russia investigation start?" DeSantis asked Wray. "Did (FBI counterintelligence agent)Peter Strzok -- was he -- did he start it?"

Wray answered, "I'm not aware of who started the investigation within the FBI."

DeSantis followed up: "Was it started because the dossier was presented to somebody in the FBI?"

"I don't have the answer to that question," Wray said.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/su ... ump-russia

[Tyler]

Wray is either lying or totally incompetent.

Either way, he must be fired.

I'd bet decent money that he refused to answer the questions because he doesn't want to undercut the OIG report due to drop any day now that will tear it all down. Lots of recent anti-investigation news (FBI demotions, Strzok entanglements, judge recusals, etc) are probably direct results of early blowback from that report.

[Kriegsspiel]

Further to Moda's request for a "source" establishing the absence of evidence sufficient to initiate an investigation, the following testimony provided by FBI Director Christopher Wray at a House Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday would seem to pretty much settle the issue:

Two simple questions: How did the FBI's Russia investigation start? And was it started because the Trump "dossier" was presented to somebody at the FBI?

Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) asked FBI director Christopher Wray those questions at a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday, but he got no answers:

"How did the Russia investigation start?" DeSantis asked Wray. "Did (FBI counterintelligence agent)Peter Strzok -- was he -- did he start it?"

Wray answered, "I'm not aware of who started the investigation within the FBI."

DeSantis followed up: "Was it started because the dossier was presented to somebody in the FBI?"

"I don't have the answer to that question," Wray said.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/su ... ump-russia

Wray is either lying or totally incompetent.

Either way, he must be fired.

But we know the answer to this question, don't we?

But if everyone in government who was incompetent or a liar was fired then there wouldnOH NOW I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THIS

[moda0306]

Trump has no problem with the CIA, permanent war, gangster global capitalism, etc, as long as it's doing what he sees as being "in our interests" as they murder, torture, lie, steal, and secretly manipulate the public. He just wants to use these tools for less globalist aims. He's no enemy of the deep state. He just wants to use its power somewhat differently.

What we are witnessing, at worst, is two wings of the permawar surveillance state engage in quasi-espionage against each other. What we are witnessing is our corrupt justice system actuall turning against power rather than doing its bidding.

So in that context I won't lose one ounce of sleep for a neofascist police statist at the head of the executive branch when the corrupt justice he wants dealt to poor brown people gets turned on him.

That said, I'm more than willing to simultaneously call for the indictment of any other powerful folks engaging in illegal activity on-behalf. Hillary Clinton... CNN... Faux Newd... James Clapper... Other individuals and institutions who act illegally or immorally towards the public they're supposed to serve, can rot with the rapey slimeball Trump.

But if the globalist wing of the deep state wants to go to engage a secret "war" with the jingo wing, I'm more than happy to watch. Trump is simply an imperialist war-monger of a different flavor.

[Maddy]

Trump has no problem with the CIA, permanent war, gangster global capitalism, etc, as long as it's doing what he sees as being "in our interests" as they murder, torture, lie, steal, and secretly manipulate the public. He just wants to use these tools for less globalist aims. He's no enemy of the deep state. He just wants to use its power somewhat differently.

I'd be surprised if Trump fully understands, at this point, what the deep state is and what its objectives are. No doubt his learning curve has been steep, but he's had neither the time nor the experience to know what's really at stake, who's really running the show, and little information or control he has over anything. It may be that the oligarchy will, in the end, play him like a fiddle (as they have every president in recent history), but I think it's too early to brand him one way or another.

[Kriegsspiel]

Trump has no problem with the CIA, permanent war, gangster global capitalism, etc, as long as it's doing what he sees as being "in our interests" as they murder, torture, lie, steal, and secretly manipulate the public. He just wants to use these tools for less globalist aims. He's no enemy of the deep state. He just wants to use its power somewhat differently.

I'd be surprised if Trump fully understands, at this point, what the deep state is and what its objectives are. No doubt his learning curve has been steep, but he's had neither the time nor the experience to know what's really at stake, who's really running the show, and little information or control he has over anything. It may be that the oligarchy will, in the end, play him like a fiddle (as they have every president in recent history), but I think it's too early to brand him one way or another.

I think he understands exactly what the deep state is and what its objectives are.

If he can stay alive and avoid being railroaded out of office I believe he will go down as a great President.

I think he's gonna need to start a war or something to join that club.

[Kriegsspiel]

Ok, maybe just win one.

Though I don't think anyone really wins wars anymore*.

*For instance
Iraq Prime Minister Declares Victory Over ISIS

"Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi of Iraq declared victory over the Islamic State on Saturday, announcing the end of more than three years of battles to regain control over nearly one-third of the country that had been under the terrorist group’s dominion...

Hours before Mr. Abadi’s speech, a bomb suspected of being planted by insurgents exploded in the center of Tikrit"

[moda0306]

Trump has vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state.

I'd love to see tech's evidence that he's any sort of reliable threat to the deep state.

But I know we won't get it.

[flyingpylon]

Trump has vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state.

Or maybe he’s just “pacing and leading” on some or all of those issues.

[Benko]

Trump has vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state.

I'd love to see tech's evidence that he's any sort of reliable threat to the deep state.

But I know we won't get it.

Advocated for=words. What has actually changed/been done on the basis of those words?

[Maddy]

In today's headlines, the Pentagon has made known its intent to defy President Trump with regard to his ban on transgenders in the military. So you tell me: Who's actually in charge, and what reason is there to believe that the Pentagon isn't establishing US foreign policy as well?

[Benko]

in all fairness candidate trump did "vociferously advocated for torture, imperialistic war and theft, murdering family-members of alleged "terrorists," and an expanded police state." i don't recall president trump advocating or following through on any of this hyperbolic election nuttery at all. this is certainly in keeping with how heat of the campaign bloviating is forgotten by most/all candidates... he has however(against all political norms) managed to follow through on some of his legitimate campaign promises which is an unorthodox precedent that i am happy to see set...

The deep state is all too much in charge in many areas.

If Trump were more ruthless and authoritarian as people think, he would have fired Comey day 1, cleaned house as fast as possible and the country would have been better off.

[Cortopassi]

How much of the last minute stuff was done by Obama just in order to potentially mess with Trump were he to win?

***Transgendered people -- June 2016, 8 years into his presidency, is when Obama decided to allow them? Why not earlier?

-- Section 1. Policy. (a) Until June 2016, the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) (collectively, the Departments) generally prohibited openly transgender individuals from accession into the United States military and authorized the discharge of such individuals. Shortly before President Obama left office, however, his Administration dismantled the Departments' established framework by permitting transgender individuals to serve openly in the military, authorizing the use of the Departments' resources to fund sex-reassignment surgical procedures, and permitting accession of such individuals after July 1, 2017. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Homeland Security have since extended the deadline to alter the currently effective accession policy to January 1, 2018, while the Departments continue to study the issue.

***Utah Bears Ears, in December 2016??:

Obama, as expected, named 1.35 million acres of federal land as the Bears Ears National Monument in late December, just a month before leaving office. Tribes and environmentalists celebrated, but Utah officials were angry.

***Jerusalem, seems every president in the past 25 years ran on this but then pulled back, but Trump finally pulled the trigger?
------------------------
My head is spinning. Last month I was 100% anti-Trump, after voting for him. I am now starting to reverse that position....

until 25 more women come out and accuse him of sexual misconduct....

Yes, my head is spinning.

[dualstow]

Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?

between the lines.

[Maddy]

Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?

This is a very interesting and eye-opening multi-chapter work that delves into the Deep State's intimate connections to Hollywood, the music industry, pedophilia, the military-industrial complex, the U.S. intelligence apparatus, the occult, psychedelic drugs, and the hippy movement.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/

[dualstow]

Where is the best place to read about the so-called deep state?

This is a very interesting and eye-opening multi-chapter work that delves into the Deep State's intimate connections to Hollywood, the music industry, pedophilia, the military-industrial complex, the U.S. intelligence apparatus, the occult, psychedelic drugs, and the hippy movement.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/laurelcanyon/

oooh i like that one, i read all the way through it a couple years ago, it was a strange and almost addictive read on the sixties and the counterculture... it put an entirely different spin on it for me as a post sixties child, it created a wonderful and healthy skepticism in me about a decade its music and culture that i was mostly just in awe of beforehand....

I started it. Thank you!

[Maddy]

As I skim this morning's news concerning the surfacing of FBI e-mails referring to an "insurance policy" addressed to the unlikely possibility of a Trump presidency, I'm thinking that you've got to be nuts to conclude that Trump has voluntarily allied himself with the Deep State. Who could possibly be targeted in this Stalinesque way and not become rabidly disenchanted with the establishment?

[Maddy]

I recently heard an excellent interview with Stephen Cohen, self-avowed liberal and professor emeritus of Russian studies at New York University and professor emeritus of politics at Princeton University. His view is that the recurring baseless accusations of treason against President Trump have become a serious national security threat by thwarting the effort toward diplomatic rapprochement and fueling a brewing international crisis comparable to the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962.

Those "progressives" who think Trump is the problem need a reality check and should give some serious thought to whose agenda they are, in reality, supporting.

"What he's being accused of is treason. This has never happened before in America, that there is a Russia agent in the White House. And we have a whole array of allegations from Putin helped him get in the White House, to his associates are doing wrong things with Russians."

"There is no evidence there was any wrongdoing, and indeed Flynn should have talked to the Russian ambassador. That was his job. This is beyond belief now... This has become a national security threat to us in and of itself,"he explained.

"Two motives have driven this false narrative about Trump, that he is somehow a Kremlin agent. There have been two forces. One is the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party, which doesn't want to admit she lost the election... and that may be because she wants to run again.... At the same time, there has long been in Washington, let's call it the fourth branch of government -- the intelligence services, who have opposed any rapprochement or cooperation with Russia."

"Remember, in 2016, President Obama worked out a deal with Russian president Vladimir Putin, for military cooperation in Syria. He said he was going to share intelligence with Russia, the way Trump and the Russians were supposed to do the other day. Our Department of Defense said they wouldn't share intelligence, and a few days later, they killed Syrian soldiers ["by accident"] violating the agreement, and that was that," he explained.

"So we can ask: Who is making our foreign policy in Washington today?"

Host Tucker Carlson presses him to explain and Cohen says: "You and I have to ask a subversive question. Are there really three branches of government. Or is there a fourth branch of government? These intel services? What we know for a fact, Obama tried not very hard, but he tried for a military alliance with Putin in Syria against terrorism, but it was sabotaged by the Department of Defense and its allies in the intelligence services. Trump sais on the campaign trail, 'Wouldn't it be great to cooperate with Russia?' My answer is, it would be great. And Trump wants that to happen, but he is being thwarted. Every time he gets close, we get a new leak of a story."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... today.html

Related video interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhkzF0npUnc

[moda0306]

I recently heard an excellent interview with Stephen Cohen, self-avowed liberal and professor emeritus of Russian studies at New York University and professor emeritus of politics at Princeton University. His view is that the recurring baseless accusations of treason against President Trump have become a serious security threat to the United States by obstructing the effort toward diplomatic rapprochement and fueling an international crisis of monumental proportion.

Those "progressives" who think Trump is the problem need a reality check and should give some thought to whose agenda they are, in reality, supporting.

"What he's being accused of is treason. This has never happened before in America, that there is a Russia agent in the White House. And we have a whole array of allegations from Putin helped him get in the White House, to his associates are doing wrong things with Russians."

"There is no evidence there was any wrongdoing, and indeed Flynn should have talked to the Russian ambassador. That was his job. This is beyond belief now... This has become a national security threat to us in and of itself,"he explained.

"Two motives have driven this false narrative about Trump, that he is somehow a Kremlin agent. There have been two forces. One is the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party, which doesn't want to admit she lost the election... and that may be because she wants to run again.... At the same time, there has long been in Washington, let's call it the fourth branch of government -- the intelligence services, who have opposed any rapprochement or cooperation with Russia."

"Remember, in 2016, President Obama worked out a deal with Russian president Vladimir Putin, for military cooperation in Syria. He said he was going to share intelligence with Russia, the way Trump and the Russians were supposed to do the other day. Our Department of Defense said they wouldn't share intelligence, and a few days later, they killed Syrian soldiers ["by accident"] violating the agreement, and that was that," he explained.

"So we can ask: Who is making our foreign policy in Washington today?"

Host Tucker Carlson presses him to explain and Cohen says: "You and I have to ask a subversive question. Are there really three branches of government. Or is there a fourth branch of government? These intel services? What we know for a fact, Obama tried not very hard, but he tried for a military alliance with Putin in Syria against terrorism, but it was sabotaged by the Department of Defense and its allies in the intelligence services. Trump sais on the campaign trail, 'Wouldn't it be great to cooperate with Russia?' My answer is, it would be great. And Trump wants that to happen, but he is being thwarted. Every time he gets close, we get a new leak of a story."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... today.html

"Libs" that support the ilk of Hillary are surely in many forms a threat insofar the establishment dems are a threat to our liberty and security.

But that doesn't mean that all the areas outside of Russia that people are extremely weary of Trump aren't warranted. While we're worrying about Trump/Russia relations, Trump might ignite a war with North Korea. There are lots of threats in the establishment, and lots of idiots outside of it.

Trump is certainly not THE problem... but to think that he's not A problem is ridiculous. Nobody that impulsive, unable to articulate a coherent thought, and willing to employ violence can be written off as leader of the largest killing force in the world.