Figuring Out Religion

[Michellebell]

Not the greatest analogy, I think. If the television completely breaks, the show goes on but the receiver is no longer partaking in it.

Personally, I think it will be nice to find out that Libertarian666 is right and that isn't the end but I'm sure I won't be too disappointed if I just cease to exist. When I was young, that thought really scared me but after a lifetime of practicing it every night it doesn't seem so bad.

The show is like the soul or spirit. The television is nothing more than lifeless parts, just like bodies will "turn to dust" after we die and be "no longer partaking in it." Something must happen that makes a person alive one minute and dead the next. I'd think that physically the body may be no different when you compare the two states about a minute apart, but prior to the death, there is a life-force that is coursing through the body that is causing its cells to continue to grow and reproduce, and after that moment, that life force is gone. Science says that energy cannot be destroyed. It can only change forms. So where does it go? It can't vanish.

I used to believe that we just cease to exist also. For me it was an incredibly depressing way to live. Just believing that I have a purpose here and that I'll be able to look back on my life and feel some sense of accomplishment for all I learned or at least sought to do makes my life much more meaningful.

[Xan]

I just read through John again, and I don't see anything that even resembles anti semitism. I do see a lot of negativity directed at the self-righteous, the decent right wing religious folks of their time, the pharisees. But it's hard to twist anti-semitism into the NT, particularly given the fact that Jesus was a Jew, as were the majority of the authors of the NT. But I suppose if I hated Jews and went looking for support, I could wring something out to satisfy my existing bias.

I had assumed that the declaration "salvation is of the Jews" was from Matthew, but no, it's from John. Hardly anti-Semitic. And Matthew has this exchange:

And a Canaanite woman from that region came to Him, crying out, Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is miserably possessed by a demon.” But Jesus did not answer a word. So His disciples came and urged Him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” “Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” “O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Jesus was sent only to the house of Israel. The Hebrews are the children and everyone else are the dogs. Racism against the Jews I tells ya!

[Xan]

Here's an article on Luther that I read recently, and seems appropriate to put here on this day, and in this current period in our country:

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/arti ... sh-problem

Glad to see a Christian acknowledge the dark side of Luther. I don't believe it's a stretch to say he bears a lot of responsibility for the holocaust.

I would also suggest you turn the same honest spotlight on some other antisemitic writings from which Luther drew his inspiration - namely the gospels.

For what it's worth, the LCMS has an official resolution on this matter:

WHEREAS, Anti-Semitism and other forms of racism are a continuing problem in our world; and

WHEREAS, Some of Luther's intemperate remarks about the Jews are often cited in this connection; and

WHEREAS, It is widely but falsely assumed that Luther's personal writings and opinions have some official status among us (thus, sometimes implying the responsibility of contemporary Lutheranism for those statements, if not complicity in them); but also

WHEREAS, It is plain from Scripture that the Gospel must be proclaimed to all people — that is, to Jews also, no more and no less than to others (Matt. 28:18-20); and

WHEREAS, This Scriptural mandate is sometimes confused with anti-Semitism; therefore be it

Resolved, That we condemn any and all discrimination against others on account of race or religion or any coercion on that account and pledge ourselves to work and witness against such sins; and be it further

Resolved, That we reaffirm that the bases of our doctrine and practice are the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions and not Luther, as such; and be it further

Resolved, That while, on the one hand, we are deeply indebted to Luther for his rediscovery and enunciation of the Gospel, on the other hand, we deplore and disassociate ourselves from Luther's negative statements about the Jewish people, and, by the same token, we deplore the use today of such sentiments by Luther to incite anti-Christian and/or anti-Lutheran sentiment; and be it further

Resolved, That in our teaching and preaching we take care not to confuse the religion of the Old Testament (often labeled "Yahwism") with the subsequent Judaism, nor misleadingly speak about "Jews" in the Old Testament ("Israelites" or "Hebrews" being much more accurate terms), lest we obscure the basic claim of the New Testament and of the Gospel to being in substantial continuity with the Old Testament and that the fulfillment of the ancient promises came in Jesus Christ; and be it further

Resolved, That we avoid the recurring pitfall of recrimination (as illustrated by the remarks of Luther and many of the early church fathers) against those who do not respond positively to our evangelistic efforts; and be it finally

Resolved, That, in that light, we personally and individually adopt Luther's final attitude toward the Jewish people, as evidenced in his last sermon: "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they might become converted and would receive the Lord" (Weimar edition, Vol. 51, p. 195).

[Maddy]

It's hard to deny that the quest for power dominates most human interactions. However, my own observation throughout a lifetime of watching and analyzing people suggests that the motivation behind the urge to acquire power usually has less to do with the desire to become Godlike (the biblical take) than to compensate for deeply ingrained feelings of inadequacy and shame. The term "classical narcissism," as used in psychoanalytic circles, describes this phenomenon in which a very fragile, "puffed up" ego structure conceals a fairly constant battle with feelings of worthlessness and powerlessness . I have worked closely in the trenches with a number of very "powerful" people who, within the privacy of a trusted relationship, resemble wounded little children in their need for constant affection and affirmation.

In this sense, I think that mainstream religion once again has it all wrong when it focuses on the "God complex" as the root of all evil.

[farjean2]

I just read through John again, and I don't see anything that even resembles anti semitism. I do see a lot of negativity directed at the self-righteous, the decent right wing religious folks of their time, the pharisees. But it's hard to twist anti-semitism into the NT, particularly given the fact that Jesus was a Jew, as were the majority of the authors of the NT. But I suppose if I hated Jews and went looking for support, I could wring something out to satisfy my existing bias.

Like I said above, it's doubtful that you would see it because you aren't looking for it. Here's a paragraph from a Wiki page on the subject....

The Gospel of John has long provided anti-Semites with grist for their mill.[28] There are 31 instances where the gospel uses the word Ἰουδαῖοι, the Jews in a hostile sense,[29] among the 63 uses[30] of the word in this gospel,[31] and all Jewish groups are lumped together, with no distinctions made between them. The Sadducees, prominent elsewhere, disappear.[32] The enemies of Jesus are described collectively as "the Jews", in contradistinction to the other evangelists, who do not generally[33] ascribe to "the Jews" en masse calls for the death of Jesus. In the other 3 texts, the plot to put him to death is always presented as coming from a small group of priests and rulers, the Sadducees.[31][34] John's gospel is thus the primary source of the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus, which later became fixed in Christian minds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... _Testament

Also interesting that this is the latest of the 4 gospels, written between 80 and 90 A.D. Not only does it present a different picture of Jesus than the other three gospels but also the Jews.

[Michellebell]

I just read through John again, and I don't see anything that even resembles anti semitism. I do see a lot of negativity directed at the self-righteous, the decent right wing religious folks of their time, the pharisees. But it's hard to twist anti-semitism into the NT, particularly given the fact that Jesus was a Jew, as were the majority of the authors of the NT. But I suppose if I hated Jews and went looking for support, I could wring something out to satisfy my existing bias.

Like I said above, it's doubtful that you would see it because you aren't looking for it. Here's a paragraph from a Wiki page on the subject....

The Gospel of John has long provided anti-Semites with grist for their mill.[28] There are 31 instances where the gospel uses the word Ἰουδαῖοι, the Jews in a hostile sense,[29] among the 63 uses[30] of the word in this gospel,[31] and all Jewish groups are lumped together, with no distinctions made between them. The Sadducees, prominent elsewhere, disappear.[32] The enemies of Jesus are described collectively as "the Jews", in contradistinction to the other evangelists, who do not generally[33] ascribe to "the Jews" en masse calls for the death of Jesus. In the other 3 texts, the plot to put him to death is always presented as coming from a small group of priests and rulers, the Sadducees.[31][34] John's gospel is thus the primary source of the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus, which later became fixed in Christian minds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... _Testament

I never noticed any anti-semitism either. Really I'd say there was the opposite message - No Jew or gentile, just everyone in Christ, right? according to the writings of Paul

Jesus was critical of the religious leaders, who were Jewish, but not because they were Jewish but because they were hypocrites. He observed the Sabbath himself and considered himself a Jew.

[farjean2]

I never noticed any anti-semitism either. Really I'd say there was the opposite message - No Jew or gentile, just everyone in Christ, right? according to the writings of Paul

I just added a note to my previous post about how it is interesting that the gospel of John depicts not only a different picture of Jesus than the other three but also of "The Jews". It is believed to be the last gospel written, somewhere between 80 and 90 AD so Christianity has been alive for some 50 to 60 years already and Jerusalem fell to the Romans 10 to 20 years prior in 70 AD - a judgment many Christians believed was due to their rejection of Christ (and many still do believe this).

(I'm not a Jew, BTW).

As for Paul, sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Paul got his theology from the same Jesus that we see in the gospels.

[Maddy]

As for Paul, sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Paul got his theology from the same Jesus that we see in the gospels.

You can say that again.

By the way, he didn't (get his theology from Jesus). Paul never met the historic Jesus and went on record as stating that he had no need to learn about Jesus from those who did know him. His inspiration came entirely from a "revelation" that he alone experienced.

[Mountaineer]

As for Paul, sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Paul got his theology from the same Jesus that we see in the gospels.

You can say that again.

By the way, he didn't (get his theology from Jesus). Paul never met the historic Jesus and went on record as stating that he had no need to learn about Jesus from those who did know him. His inspiration came entirely from a "revelation" that he alone experienced.

“And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:4-7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[Maddy]

As for Paul, sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Paul got his theology from the same Jesus that we see in the gospels.

You can say that again.

By the way, he didn't (get his theology from Jesus). Paul never met the historic Jesus and went on record as stating that he had no need to learn about Jesus from those who did know him. His inspiration came entirely from a "revelation" that he alone experienced.

“And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:4-7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Other accounts say that the witnesses saw the flash but heard no voice. I guess that's a mistake anybody could make.

[farjean2]

As for Paul, sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Paul got his theology from the same Jesus that we see in the gospels.

You can say that again.

By the way, he didn't (get his theology from Jesus). Paul never met the historic Jesus and went on record as stating that he had no need to learn about Jesus from those who did know him. His inspiration came entirely from a "revelation" that he alone experienced.

And this is the basic fodder for the "Christ Myth" theory. That it was indeed "another Jesus" from whom Paul got his revelation. Interestingly, Paul warns about those who preach "another Jesus" so obviously it must have been happening. Wouldn't it be interesting to have some record of the other Jesuses that were being preached so we could compare them?

[Mountaineer]

As for Paul, sometimes I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that Paul got his theology from the same Jesus that we see in the gospels.

You can say that again.

By the way, he didn't (get his theology from Jesus). Paul never met the historic Jesus and went on record as stating that he had no need to learn about Jesus from those who did know him. His inspiration came entirely from a "revelation" that he alone experienced.

And this is the basic fodder for the "Christ Myth" theory. That it was indeed "another Jesus" from whom Paul got his revelation. Interestingly, Paul warns about those who preach "another Jesus" so obviously it must have been happening. Wouldn't it be interesting to have some record of the other Jesuses that were being preached so we could compare them?

I met Jesus once in Piedras Negras, Mexico. He had quite the accent.

[Mountaineer]

And this is the basic fodder for the "Christ Myth" theory. That it was indeed "another Jesus" from whom Paul got his revelation. Interestingly, Paul warns about those who preach "another Jesus" so obviously it must have been happening. Wouldn't it be interesting to have some record of the other Jesuses that were being preached so we could compare them?

I met Jesus once in Piedras Negras, Mexico. He had quite the accent.

That's so weird, I met Jesus in Mexico also. He was huge.

Indeed, The really big dude in many a Way.

[farjean2]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessind ... ake-sense/

[Mountaineer]

Should the Christian stand all day long at the grave of all joys which he enjoyed in past years? Through Holy Baptism a great stream of joy has been conducted in his heart, which does not drain away, but streams forward with his life until its waves carry him into the sea of a blessed eternity. Should the Christian be reminded all day long that the flowers of his youth fall more and more? He stands planted by God in the water of his Baptism as a palm tree which becomes greener and greener and whose leaves never wither. His Baptism makes death for him like a short winter's nap, out off which an eternal spring, an eternal youth, follows. Thanks be to God I am baptized! Happy New Year and a joyous forever!


From a Sermon on New Year’s Eve by Pastor C. F. W. Walther:

For Baptism is a bath that washed me not only once when I received it—washed me pure with Christ’s blood—but it continuously washes me clean even daily for as long as I hold it in faith. For just as that same water of the flood drowned the sinners, but Noah with his relatives were brought to salvation and carried to Mount Ararat, so also did the water of my Baptism drown my sins, but my soul was brought to the eternal mountain of divine grace. And just as once those same waves of the Red Sea, which swallowed up Pharaoh and his army, were a protective wall for Israel, so also has my baptismal water swallowed up all of my damnation and is for me a sure wall before God’s wrath and punishment….

Now then, all of you who believe in God’s Word, let your watchword for entering the new year be this: “I am baptized!” Although the world may laugh at this comfort, the enthusiasts vex its confidence … nevertheless, abandon any other dearly held pledges and speak only throughout the entire year to come, in all terrors of conscience and necessity through sin and death: “I am baptized! I am baptized! Hallelujah!” And you shall prevail! In every time of need, you will find comfort in your Baptism; on account of it Satan will flee from your faith and confession; and in death you will see heaven opened and will finally come into the joy of your Lord to celebrate a great year of jubilee, a year of praise, with all the angels forever and ever. Amen!

[farjean2]

From a Sermon on New Year’s Eve by Pastor C. F. W. Walther:

For Baptism is a bath that washed me not only once when I received it—washed me pure with Christ’s blood—but it continuously washes me clean even daily for as long as I hold it in faith. For just as that same water of the flood drowned the sinners, but Noah with his relatives were brought to salvation and carried to Mount Ararat, so also did the water of my Baptism drown my sins, but my soul was brought to the eternal mountain of divine grace. And just as once those same waves of the Red Sea, which swallowed up Pharaoh and his army, were a protective wall for Israel, so also has my baptismal water swallowed up all of my damnation and is for me a sure wall before God’s wrath and punishment….

Now then, all of you who believe in God’s Word, let your watchword for entering the new year be this: “I am baptized!” Although the world may laugh at this comfort, the enthusiasts vex its confidence … nevertheless, abandon any other dearly held pledges and speak only throughout the entire year to come, in all terrors of conscience and necessity through sin and death: “I am baptized! I am baptized! Hallelujah!” And you shall prevail! In every time of need, you will find comfort in your Baptism; on account of it Satan will flee from your faith and confession; and in death you will see heaven opened and will finally come into the joy of your Lord to celebrate a great year of jubilee, a year of praise, with all the angels forever and ever. Amen!

What a rambling, incoherent piece of nonsense.

If you really want to live next year without "terrors of conscience through sin and death" I suggest using your powers of reason. If there really is a God of wrath and punishment who would drown every living creature on the planet except for 8, including women, children, and babies why would anyone consider an asshole like that worthy of worship? Some do, I guess, in the same way that women who suffer domestic abuse give excuses that he really does love me.

So if you worry that maybe the Christian god of wrath really does exist start by checking out that story of Noah and the ark. Does it make one god damn bit of sense to believe it was a literal event in history? Answer that to your own reasonable conclusion and then be done with such nonsense. Or bow down and worship him like the people in N. Korea do their divine leader.

[Xan]

farjean,

You are free to disagree, but your post exemplifies many of the things that MediumTex was trying to avoid in this forum (and in this thread). This should not be a place that raises anyone's blood pressure. Please tone down the name-calling and the swearing.

[farjean2]

farjean,

You are free to disagree, but your post exemplifies many of the things that MediumTex was trying to avoid in this forum (and in this thread). This should not be a place that raises anyone's blood pressure. Please tone down the name-calling and the swearing.

That's rich, considering the nature of Mountaineer's post. Obviously you don't see this because you are a Christian and this is just the way Christians are allowed to get away with talking because we have to respect everybody's religious beliefs. You get to tell everyone that god is mad at you enough to drown you and your family but in his mercy he allowed for a blood sacrifice to appease his anger and we are supposed to be respectful of that belief. I am not. Sorry, but I will do my best to keep my opinions to myself from now on.

[Mountaineer]

farjean,

You are free to disagree, but your post exemplifies many of the things that MediumTex was trying to avoid in this forum (and in this thread). This should not be a place that raises anyone's blood pressure. Please tone down the name-calling and the swearing.

That's rich, considering the nature of Mountaineer's post. Obviously you don't see this because you are a Christian and this is just the way Christians are allowed to get away with talking because we have to respect everybody's religious beliefs. You get to tell everyone that god is mad at you enough to drown you and your family but in his mercy he allowed for a blood sacrifice to appease his anger and we are supposed to be respectful of that belief. I am not. Sorry, but I will do my best to keep my opinions to myself from now on.

farjean,

I apologize that my post which was addressed to Christians apparently upset you so. May your god provide you comfort while you are on this mortal coil. I know THE God provides much comfort to those who believe in His promises. And, I thought you would enjoy the post since you asked for it in the 2018 thread ( viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9309#p166655 ). Regardless, Happy New Year!

Blessings, Mountaineer

[Mountaineer]

"In worship the congregation experiences its Lord most intimately. Here it lives in nearest proximity to its Groom in a heavenly life on earth, an earthly life in heaven. Worship is the most beautiful flower of earthly life. Just like land in the middle of the ocean, the Word and the Sacraments stand in the inner life and worship of the congregation. You have one week behind you, a new week lies in front of you. Between these two weeks is the day of Communion Sunday. You desire to draw near to God with the congregation. What do you, whether you are a shepherd or sheep, have to do first? You do what all religions say is necessary for the soul: you cleanse it like feet that have become dirty from the activity of daily life. In other words, you prepare yourself for worship by confessing your sins and receiving absolution. Being cleansed from sin you enter into the joys of the particular festival day or Sunday. But the worshiper finds that earth still has other burdens and sorrows, both present and future. Life, death, and eternity, with all of their bitter fruits and consequences, threaten you as you journey to the heavenly kingdom. Worries burden you and keep burdening you. But no longer does sin torture you, no longer do you fear evil, no longer do you sigh longingly, but joyful confidence fills your soul. You sit beneath the face of the Lord. In the sermon you begin to experience the blessed communion of the saints who rejoice in the Lord. The worshiping congregation experiences itself as the Bride of the Lord, rich not only in and through Him but also in and through one another. The congregation, in its fullness, thinks of the special needs and miseries upon the earth, delights in all good things, and goes before the altar of the Lord with intercessions, petitions, and prayers. All worshipers are blessed and approach the throne of blessing knowing they are worthy. The worshipers realize that the Church is one unit both here and everywhere. Pilgrims are one in their prayers and are cleansed with all of the blessed saints in heaven." ...Rev. J.K. Wilhelm Loehe

[Maddy]

This thread needs to be taken out back and shot.

[Cortopassi]

This thread needs to be taken out back and shot.

No smilies, so I assume that wasn't necessarily said in jest....

I personally don't currently believe in the religion I was brought up in (Catholic), or God in general (but I tell you, that sentence is still very difficult to write! From my upbringing, I still have a sense that he's up there marking me down in his big book of bad people...)

But if Mountaineer and others believe, more power to them. We are all free to listen or to not listen. As long as no one is forcing their beliefs on me by force, you can believe whatever you'd like.

At many times I wish I could be like Mountaineer -- to have such faith must feel pretty good. My brother and his family are that way. I have always been the black sheep. My mother, 82, finally accepted it just a few short years ago!

Happy New Year!

[Mountaineer]

This thread needs to be taken out back and shot.

No smilies, so I assume that wasn't necessarily said in jest....

I personally don't currently believe in the religion I was brought up in (Catholic), or God in general (but I tell you, that sentence is still very difficult to write! From my upbringing, I still have a sense that he's up there marking me down in his big book of bad people...)

But if Mountaineer and others believe, more power to them. We are all free to listen or to not listen. As long as no one is forcing their beliefs on me by force, you can believe whatever you'd like.

At many times I wish I could be like Mountaineer -- to have such faith must feel pretty good. My brother and his family are that way. I have always been the black sheep. My mother, 82, finally accepted it just a few short years ago!

Happy New Year!

Since the topic of this thread is "Figuring Out Religion", perhaps my response to the above two posts will be helpful in helping with that ... or not.

My initial feelings upon reading the two posts: Hopeful and seeing God at work. I'll explain why.

First to Maddy's post: I perceive Maddy to be very intelligent and very self-reliant based on her posts in this forum. I would characterize my self that way also. I too was in her shoes for many years, but generally, I was more apathetic toward religion than her "shoot it" remark indicates she is at present. I have great empathy for those self-reliant types who struggle with religion, and before anyone says "I'm not a religious person, or I don't need religion" I would beg to differ. If one ponders that statement seriously, I believe everyone has some sort of religion or god. It may be nature, it may be gardening, book reading, investing, fitness, helping the poor, cooking, or any number of endeavors that brings one comfort or stimulation or meaning. There is always hope that God will somehow snatch that person out of their apathy or disgust or intolerance toward Christianity. In the meantime, Scriptures say that Christians will be persecuted by the "world, i.e. non-believers". Thus, every time Christians are persecuted, even mildly on an internet forum, I am reminded of the veracity of Scripture; persecution is to be expected. We in this country have escaped the brunt of that persecution for a few hundred years; it will only get worse the closer the time to Christ's return. So, the more the persecution, the closer I am to living eternally with a perfect body and soul in the presence of Jesus. No more aches, pains, sorrow, or sadness. Come Lord Jesus!

Secondly to Cortopassi's post: His post indicates to me a sleeping-for-now Christianity and shows evidence of Christian graciousness. I expect God will use something that will get him back to church - perhaps pondering the reasons for his mother's late life conversion. Many of my friends who were raised Catholic have similar experiences. They have lingering feelings of guilt and fear a wrathful God. Those who have decided to read and study the Scriptures themselves (vs. just listening to their Priest) generally have a revelation; the Bible is the story of Jesus, the First Testament is about the need for a Savior and God's plan to deliver Him, the Second about the Savior and what He did ... FOR ME! The God of wrath who acted to bring the Savior to intersect with the world and save it becomes hidden, the revealed God shines forth and is understood as forgiving and gracious no matter how big ones sins. He wants everyone. Many will have ears to hear and go to where He has promised to be (in Word and Sacrament) when two or three are gathered together. From what I read and hear, and is true of my friends, the former Catholics who study the Scriptures usually end up in an Eastern Orthodox or Lutheran congregation, sometimes Presbyterian, or even sometimes back in a Catholic congregation with a renewed understanding; the liturgical congregations seem to have more appeal to them than the big box mega churches which do not have a commonly held confession that is subscribed to throughout the denomination - they tend to be Pastor dependent re. the doctrine.

My two cents.

[Maddy]

First to Maddy's post: I perceive Maddy to be very intelligent and very self-reliant based on her posts in this forum. I would characterize my self that way also. I too was in her shoes for many years, but generally, I was more apathetic toward religion than her "shoot it" remark indicates she is at present.

Just for the sake of clarity, it's religion--and not the message of the gospel--that causes me angst.

[Ad Orientem]

Merry Christmas everyone. Christ is born! Glorify Him!

https://youtu.be/7cQaEmKRYPo