Al Gore & The Iraq War

[moda0306]

I've heard some people swear up and down (I'd say the middle-left for lack of a better term) that Al Gore would NEVER have gone into Iraq and NEVER have let the PATRIOT Act go through, much less support it

After all the democrats and self-ascribed progressives that have led us into wars, and caved to the perma-war surveillance state, I really doubt this.

I'd love to hear what people think here. It's never been "debated" so far as I've heard... and I'm a bit tired of all the hand-wringing of "OMG what if Bush hadn't 'stolen' the election."

I wouldn't put it past Gore to invade a country or two, and severely cut back on civil liberties. But as is usually the case, because he was a "liberal," the fair weather wing of the anti-war left would have been asleep at the wheel, so I'm not sure how much better off we would be today.

[Tyler]

Relevant:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/19 ... aded-iraq/

"Nevertheless, Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction... Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power. Moreover, no international law can prevent the United States from taking actions to protect its vital interests, when it is manifestly clear that there is a choice to be made between law and survival." -- Al Gore, Sept 2002

[moda0306]

A ton of pols not firmly planted in an anti-war stance seemed to go-along for whatever combination of reasons. I'm in no way giving them a pass, but it doesn't convince me they actually would have done the same.

But definitely a good find, Tyler!

Does anyone remember being disgusted by Barbara Lee in her opposition to engaging in Afghanistan? I can... and I'm more than a bit embarrassed with myself.

[farjean2]

Democrats got us into all of the major words of the 20th century

WWI = Wilson
WWII = FDR
Korea = Truman
Vietnam = Kennedy/Johnson

I read somewhere else that in all wars the score is 16 for Dems, 10 for Reps.

So the idea of democrats keeping us out of war is laughable.

According to this web site there has only been one president in our history who didn't wage war...... Jimmy Carter

http://theelders.org/article/only-us-pr ... t-wage-war

[WiseOne]

I've heard some people swear up and down (I'd say the middle-left for lack of a better term) that Al Gore would NEVER have gone into Iraq and NEVER have let the PATRIOT Act go through, much less support it

After all the democrats and self-ascribed progressives that have led us into wars, and caved to the perma-war surveillance state, I really doubt this.

That is my sentiment as well.

That makes me feel a little better about the 2000 election!

I have often wondered, if it hadn't been for the Florida ballots or if the Supreme Court had ruled the other way, would we have had September 11? There was that Presidential Daily Brief in early August titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." outlining their plans in what may have been enough time to stop them that Bush and his team ignored. Perhaps Al Gore would have done the same, but...who knows??? I'm pretty sure that at the time, he was more conscientious than Bush and would at least have read the memo and considered its implications.

[Xan]

I have often wondered, if it hadn't been for the Florida ballots or if the Supreme Court had ruled the other way, would we have had September 11? There was that Presidential Daily Brief in early August titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." outlining their plans in what may have been enough time to stop them that Bush and his team ignored. Perhaps Al Gore would have done the same, but...who knows??? I'm pretty sure that at the time, he was more conscientious than Bush and would at least have read the memo and considered its implications.

That sounds a lot like crystal-clear hindsight. You say there was a memo in early August. How many such memos are received every day? If it's one, or even one a week, and it's acted on in a way that would have stopped 9/11, then daily life would grind to a halt.

And it could easily be dozens a day.

[farjean2]

I have often wondered, if it hadn't been for the Florida ballots or if the Supreme Court had ruled the other way, would we have had September 11? There was that Presidential Daily Brief in early August titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." outlining their plans in what may have been enough time to stop them that Bush and his team ignored. Perhaps Al Gore would have done the same, but...who knows??? I'm pretty sure that at the time, he was more conscientious than Bush and would at least have read the memo and considered its implications.

That sounds a lot like crystal-clear hindsight. You say there was a memo in early August. How many such memos are received every day? If it's one, or even one a week, and it's acted on in a way that would have stopped 9/11, then daily life would grind to a halt.

And it could easily be dozens a day.

Here's an interesting hypothetical I've never heard anybody ask. If Trump's proposed travel ban had been in effect in 2001 would 9/11 have happened?

[Dieter]

I have often wondered, if it hadn't been for the Florida ballots or if the Supreme Court had ruled the other way, would we have had September 11? There was that Presidential Daily Brief in early August titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." outlining their plans in what may have been enough time to stop them that Bush and his team ignored. Perhaps Al Gore would have done the same, but...who knows??? I'm pretty sure that at the time, he was more conscientious than Bush and would at least have read the memo and considered its implications.

That sounds a lot like crystal-clear hindsight. You say there was a memo in early August. How many such memos are received every day? If it's one, or even one a week, and it's acted on in a way that would have stopped 9/11, then daily life would grind to a halt.

And it could easily be dozens a day.

I haven't looked it up, but my recollection is that Bush's team considered Russia the top threat so less attention to the middle East than Clinton or theoretically what Gore's team would have.

Dont know how much difference it would have made though. If didn't stop it,I like to think he would have gotten Bin Laden and not go into Iraq -- he would have had access to the actual intelligence, different advisors, and listened more to our allies....

Would have handled the "surplus" and energy policy differently as well.

[WiseOne]

The Presidential Daily Brief in question was featured prominently in the Senate commission's 9/11 report. There were not "dozens" of them and the brief contained a lot of specifics. The commission report was published and I have a copy somewhere. Highly recommended reading.

In fact, you can read it online:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-911RE ... REPORT.pdf

See especially Chapter 8, "The System was Blinking Red".