For all you Putin Fans

[dualstow]

The Bill Browder 'Atlantic' piece is worth a read. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ee/534864/

You can always read the counter arguments at RT if you like that sort of thing.

[dualstow]

No there are not , not to my knowledge.
I have only seen suggestions that we normalize relations or "make friends with" Russia. Nothing wrong with that. Pragmatic. I just don't think we can do it while Putin is in power, and that's saying something considering the long list of despots we've worked with.

[WiseOne]

Good article, indeed, and with a lot of very specific information that I've not seen anywhere else. Thanks for posting!

I don't think anyone disagrees about Putin's morals. I don't however see what this has to do with the ongoing investigation. It sounds like if there was any illegal activity in this country, it was on the part of the lobbyists hired on behalf of Russian interests who failed to register as such. I'd be happy to see them prosecuted and barred from future lobbying positions.

Also, we've sided with plenty of similar bad actors in the past, and America has committed its own share of human rights abuses. I think the point many of us made was not necessarily to "make friends" with Putin, but to forge agreements with Russia for dealing with Syria and at the very least, avoid instigating a war with them (as in military action).

[dualstow]

(WiseOne) I don't however see what this has to do with the ongoing investigation. It sounds like if there was any illegal activity in this country, it was on the part of the lobbyists

Perhaps. But surely you see Russia's motives for meddling now. As someone wrote on reddit, this is the easiest game of connect-the-dots I have ever played.

[WiseOne]

Certainly they had a motive to break into the DNC email server. So did a lot of other parties, governmental and private. Interesting that other instances of hacking are usually blamed on the institutions, with almost no attempt to go after the hackers (because it's nearly impossible). I'd say the DNC is mainly at fault for not appropriately securing their server, or training their staff not to click on phishing links. I don't know about you all, but I get several of these a day even with spam filters blocking 90% of them.

I guess the motive you're referring to is that they assumed that the Magnitsky Act would be overturned if the Republicans took control? Not only has that not happened but I should think that would be unlikely no matter who won. I'm afraid I still view the whole thing as a witch hunt aimed at undermining Trump. They could save themselves the trouble though. He's doing a perfectly good job of that on his own.

[dualstow]

I guess the motive you're referring to is that they assumed that the Magnitsky Act would be overturned if the Republicans took control?

I don't think they assumed anything, but I do think they are trying their darnedest to change, weaken or eliminate the Magnitsky Ask Act so that P can get his overseas stash back. The election meddling is just the latest effort.

I certainly agree with these two items:

I'd say the DNC is mainly at fault for not appropriately securing their server, or training their staff not to click on phishing links.

(Trump's) doing a perfectly good job of that on his own.

[WiseOne]

Yes, probably. I doubt the Russians are the only ones who are unhappy with something the U.S. has done. Since we're the world's self-styled protector, there are a lot of Magnitsky Acts out there that are perfectly reasonable to do, but that have made us some enemies. North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Philippines, Cuba...there's quite a long list when you think about it. The grown-up response to this is to realize you're vulnerable and act accordingly. I'd really only be shocked if Russia were the only country that has tried to hack a U.S. political institution.

Sure, it's not unreasonable to be trying to connect the dots, it's just the effort being put into it and the exclusive focus on just this one thing that bothers me. You damn well know that there's an ulterior motive for pursuing this that has nothing to do with Russia. And what will we do about it anyway? Your tax dollars at work! On the other hand, the media get some entertaining stuff to report, so I suppose it's all good.