The GOLD scream room

[Cortopassi]

Or today's price. Well, that was a great effing year just had in gold.

[buddtholomew]

Pretty sad...another PP beating.
Losing hope.

[I Shrugged]

Yesterday wasn't my worst day, that's for sure.

My 1 year return says 4.0% as of this morning.
3 yr... 2.8%
5 yr... 2.7%
10 yr... 4.0%

I have almost half tilt in stocks to international, and in bonds to LT tax exempt. So not a true PP but in the same rough framework.

In the ZIRP doldrums, there just is not going to be much in the way of return from the PP.
Hey, you could have been 100% stock and done great, though!

[Cortopassi]

I read something on some pro-gold website that now seems to make a lot of sense, if you are one for manipulation theory. There's no way "the powers that be" could let gold end the year with a higher gain than stocks. And it seems like they'll get their wish.

It is certainly disheartening to now see lots of people come out and say 2017 will suck for gold as well. Of course no one knows anything and I will just hold my nose in January and add what I need to in order to rebalance.

Who knows, people are also saying it is time for the dollar to start rolling over as well after the tear it has had for the past 4 months.

[Cortopassi]

Or today's price. Well, that was a great effing year just had in gold.

According to Google finance, GLD is up 7.26% YTD. Seems decent to me, as long as you ignored everything in between, as you are supposed to.

You're right. It will be lower on the opening price a bit, but it is all the anchoring bias of seeing the 14% up in July for the PP dissipate over the past 5 months, drip drip drip.

[dualstow]

I read something on some pro-gold website that now seems to make a lot of sense, if you are one for manipulation theory. There's no way "the powers that be" could let gold end the year with a higher gain than stocks. And it seems like they'll get their wish.

Well, it seems like a lot of people think something or other is rigged. When stocks were bad and we had all those senate hearings, stocks were rigged. Now that they're up, no one's complaining.

Gold had an incredible ten-year run. As you said, no one knows, and there's no guarantee that gold will go up anytime soon, for any reason.

[dualstow]

Pretty sad...another PP beating.
Losing hope.

Buying opportunity?

[Cortopassi]

Pretty sad...another PP beating.
Losing hope.

Buying opportunity?

That's what I have to tell myself, yes.

If the economy is doing well shouldn't the industrial aspects of silver cause it to do better? Apparently not since it is being hammered much worse.

The pounding of metals is always so overdone, I guess that's the HB volatility aspect. The dollar is up huge again today, yet TLT is doing well.

Things just are strange all around.

[Libertarian666]

Fortunately there is no manipulation in the precious metals markets. That was just a normal trade where someone sold $10 billion worth of metal in five minutes!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-1 ... uke?page=1

[dualstow]

Any sources for that besides ConspiracyHedge?

[buddtholomew]

What's surprising to me is a TLT/Cash mix to replicate the BND ETF (VG Total Bond Market Index) 5.6 year duration has out-performed since the hike.

[buddtholomew]

Hey, I'm only human and have emotions too.
Not changing a damn thing.

[dualstow]

Got a single 2017 maple leaf today. My first and possibly my last since I like my gold less pure, but what a thing of beauty!

[JohnnyFactor]

I've heard people say that holding your first gold coin is quite an experience. I bought my first coin in the summer and brought it home to see what the fuss was about. Disappointment would be a mild word. I gave it some time, thinking I just need to let it sink in but nothing happened. After several months, my distaste for the coin resulted in selling it. This feeling was very unexpected and I have a couple theories why it might be.

- Here in Canada, our $1 and $2 currency is in the form of a gold(ish) coin about the same size as a 1oz gold round. I've been using them my whole adult life and have come to equate 'gold coins' with something worth almost nothing and resulting in annoying pocket change.
- Gold coins straddle both my investments and my coin collecting hobby. Sounds like a good thing, but it just results in them not feeling right in either camp.

Gold bars, however, DO appeal to me. They feel like they're worth something, like a little slice of hard wealth. Maybe I just need to channel my inner pirate.

[dualstow]

Johnny I only wish we had something like the loonie & the two-nie in the States. We have the annoying habit of making $1 coins that fail, bc they look like quarters. Over and over.

I don't see my coins for long before they go to a safer place than home.

[Mr Vacuum]

Johnny, interesting story that it bothered you enough to sell. Try silver? The first time I saw bullion was when a buddy showed me some coins. The gold buffaloes were cool for how much value they pack into a small package, but I found the sheen on the silver eagles mesmerizing.

[dualstow]

I only wish we had something like the loonie & the two-nie in the States. We have the annoying habit of making $1 coins that fail, bc they look like quarters. Over and over.

OMG, why? The reason they fail is not because they look like quarters, but because:

resulting in annoying pocket change.

People don't like them bc they are heavy and cumbersome.

I get that people don't want to walk around with a medieval leather fanny pack or pouch full of coins, but I tend to carry no more than four singles at a time. I get fives and tens from the bank, so a few singles bring me up to $9, and voila, I can pay & tip at cash-only places.

But the real answer to your why is that metal coins *last*, whereas our linen-cotton singles have nasty, brutish and short life-cycles. Metal ones and twos are smart.

[ochotona]

Dual, Maples scratch if you look at them. Don't wipe them with any type of cloth. If you must, wash with water and DAB dry only. Don't let them drop or contact other coins at all.

[dualstow]

Dual, Maples scratch if you look at them. Don't wipe them with any type of cloth. If you must, wash with water and DAB dry only. Don't let them drop or contact other coins at all.

Ha, if I look at them! Yeah, I've always shied away from Maples for that reason. I have krugs and eagles mostly. Austrian Philharmonics may be next. I liked the silver ones. Haven't really researched the gold ones yet.

Might just get more American eagles next time. But this Maple is really something. I like the anti-counterfeit mark on the 2017 version.

Edit: Mrs D just smacked the coin with the magnifying glass that I handed her.

[ochotona]

Oh dear.

[JohnnyFactor]

Johnny, interesting story that it bothered you enough to sell. Try silver?

I love silver, in any form. I'm embarrassed to say that I was suckered into silver in 2011 at the peak. I wasn't aware of Jack Bogle or Harry Browne (or common sense) and I was convinced that silver was finally repricing itself to proper valuations. That burn left me wary of silver for a long time, but I've been looking at it again lately. I actually plan on putting 5% in the VP for it. I would like to get some coins but a roll of silver maples is only $200 and I can't see how that would make a meaningful difference without a dedicated room for it, or a very large safety deposit box. They sure are nice though.

Boy, now that I think about it, this destroys my 'common currency' aversion theory. I'll have to think about that some more.

[Mark Leavy]

I just bought a 20 peso gold coin as a 20 year token/anniversary gift for an old friend I met on the road a long time ago in Mexico.

It is possibly the most beautiful coin I have ever held. While I mostly own American Eagles - I love the simplicity and shear beauty of the Mexican coins. Weights are in grams. None of this troy ounce stuff. The alloy is 90% gold and 10% copper. None of this carat stuff. The artwork is... well beautiful.

[dualstow]

I was just binge watching a comedy series on Amazon Prime ["Catastrohe']. Some Americans go to London with some locals and end up in a strip club, and the Brits lament how lucky the Americans are because they can use singles back home for tips, whereas the Brits have to use 5 Quid notes or throw coins at the dancers and risk injury.

Don't know where you hang out, DS, but $9 cash won't go too far around here anywhere other than McD.

Yes, the stripper joke is an inexorable result of any metal dollar coin thread. Even at Puritanical bogleheads.

The $9 is just about exact change. I do carry tens, 20's, and an ATM card.
Fortunately, my favorite cash only restaurant sells gift cards, which I buy with a credit card.

[Kriegsspiel]

I was just binge watching a comedy series on Amazon Prime ["Catastrohe']. Some Americans go to London with some locals and end up in a strip club, and the Brits lament how lucky the Americans are because they can use singles back home for tips, whereas the Brits have to use 5 Quid notes or throw coins at the dancers and risk injury.

Don't know where you hang out, DS, but $9 cash won't go too far around here anywhere other than McD.

Yes, the stripper joke is an inexorable result of any metal dollar coin thread. Even at Puritanical bogleheads.

The $9 is just about exact change. I do carry tens, 20's, and an ATM card.
Fortunately, my favorite cash only restaurant sells gift cards, which I buy with a credit card.

In Leipzig, there is a strip club where you exchange euros for scrip at the door, since the 1 AND the 2 euro currency is a coin! I still have a pile of Stripperbucks somewhere... that must be the real moneymaker at that club.

[dualstow]

hahaha!
The modern economy.