Figuring Out Religion

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MachineGhost
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote:Seven Myths about Death and Dying
This is a great old article by Pr. Melius. The seven myths are:
1. Death is natural.
2. Christians will be judged.
3. When you die you become an angel.
4. When you die you are through with your body.
5. Funerals are for the living, not for the dead.
6. The soul sleeps.
7. The funeral of a Christian is a celebration.

Read the article here. It's fantastic and full of comfort.
http://blogs.lcms.org/2011/myths-about- ... ers-4-2011
The "answer" to #4 is pretty funny.... shades of the Jehovah Witness cult there. I wonder how a cryogenically frozen body gets to come back to life without turning into mush upon defrosting? What about the Egyptian mummies who had all their organs pulled out through a very small opening? What about those who had their bodies cremated -- does the body image still exist and is it gonna be reassembled atom by atom?

P.S. I'm in for cremation. Don't wanna linger due to any sentimental attachments.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:The real fun starts when you start googling for an explanation of how it was that the magicians of Egypt could pull these same feats off. The explanations will give you a fascinating peak into the fundamentalist Christian mind though you might actually find it rather disturbing. You'll be hard-pressed to find any suggestion at all that the whole ancient story is complete and utter nonsense. It's the Word of God so it has to be a true story. It cannot be otherwise.
One of the best quotes from that P&T Bible is Bullshit episode was when Shermer said something like: "Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons."
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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MachineGhost wrote:
curlew wrote:The real fun starts when you start googling for an explanation of how it was that the magicians of Egypt could pull these same feats off. The explanations will give you a fascinating peak into the fundamentalist Christian mind though you might actually find it rather disturbing. You'll be hard-pressed to find any suggestion at all that the whole ancient story is complete and utter nonsense. It's the Word of God so it has to be a true story. It cannot be otherwise.
One of the best quotes from that P&T Bible is Bullshit episode was when Shermer said something like: "Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons."
You claimed not long ago to be "super smart". So where does that leave us?
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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I've often heard mainstream Christians defend their beliefs, when backed into a corner, by asserting that "Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned."

The problem with mainstream Christianity, which for all practical purposes is synonymous with evangelicism, is that the majority of its followers are not discerning things spiritually. Instead, they take non-physical realities and reduce them to the most concrete, pedestrian terms, which is why you end up with bizarre, inconsistent doctrines chock full of logical fallacies concocted in an effort to supply coherence to a belief system that is fundamentally in disarray. If indeed they believed that spiritual things must be discerned in spiritual terms, I wager they'd be a whole lot more comfortable with the gnostic interpretation of things which, as I've previously pointed out, looks a whole lot more like eastern mysticism than it does mainstream protestantism.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Xan wrote:You claimed not long ago to be "super smart". So where does that leave us?
Exactly! But don't worry, I'm sure P&T will attack my beliefs too.

The one about penis enlargement via hypnosis was amusing.

They're rather superficial on some topics given the amount of time available. It seems easiest to demolish the "Big Idea" bullshits like recycling.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Transhumanism: The Danger of Humans without Bodies

http://blogs.lcms.org/2016/transhumanis ... out-bodies

Some excerpts:

Transhumanism is the movement that awaits a revolutionary breakthrough in technology where a human personality is uploaded into a robotic body so that the human might live beyond bodily death.

To understand transhumanism, we need to have a firm grasp on postmodernism, the prevailing philosophy of our age. Postmodernism operates from an atheistic worldview and sees human beings as merely the chance products of evolutionary development. Humanity is malleable and subjective, always evolving and changing. There is nothing permanent about humanity. Human beings are nothing more than social constructs, the sum total of our subjective experiences.

It is interesting how postmodernism shares the same beliefs and goals of the ancient heresy called gnosticism. Gnosticism sees the body as the prison-house of the soul. With gnosticism, the goal of life is to escape the body and be translated to a higher spiritual plane of existence beyond creaturely-ness. The body is merely a stubborn obstacle to be overcome. Transhumanism takes one giant leap beyond mere cosmetic adjustments to the body. It seeks a humanity that is unembodied, unencumbered by the limitations of our mortality. Like gnosticism, transhumanism seeks a body-less humanity.

Why has the transhumanist movement gained such traction in intellectual circles? Because theist or atheist, we are fundamentally religious creatures. The notion that life ends at death might be intellectually satisfying, but such a hopeless belief can never satisfy our souls. Even atheists crave religion, crave an eschatology, crave a hope for a future. Transhumanism provides such a hope.

Transhumanism substitutes faith in technology for faith in God. If we don’t believe the story of the God who conquered death for us, transhumanism holds onto the hope that we can conquer death ourselves. But that hope is an illusion. The dream of uploading one’s mind onto a robot to achieve immortality is the mere fantasy of individuals looking for comfort that they will never find apart from the Gospel.

The transhumanists are on a search for an immortality, but that search is futile, as futile as our first parents who searched for life apart from God but found only death. But the futile endeavors of man are not futile to God. What man seeks to do, God has done. The Son of God has defeated death for us.

In view of the Gospel of the bodily resurrection from the dead, who needs the body-less humanity of transhumanism? Christianity proclaims an eternal future with a body—a real, human, creaturely body—immortal, restored and re-created in the image of the New Man, Jesus Christ, free of sin and death, to live with God forever.

In view of the Gospel promise, the dream of humans without bodies, of our minds being uploaded into robots so as to live forever, seems less like a dream, and more like a nightmare.

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Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Xan wrote:You claimed not long ago to be "super smart". So where does that leave us?
I have given this some further thought. It goes back to what one fundamentally believes in as their core Operating System...

1) An ever increasing intellectual dynamic search for the functionally objective truth (i.e. knowledge and wisdom).

or

2) The statist emotional comfort of faith-based fantasies -- which are typically the opposite of accepting any self-responsibility for one's life, one's choices and the resulting outcome, hence the seductive hand-washing of kowtowing and submitting to capricious "rules" and "laws" emanating from a supposed all-powerful, omniscient diety or dieties at the worst.

We know that humans cannot handle an emotional vacuum so they will overwhelmingly choose the latter. It is the path of least resistance. One needs to have an extremely strong prefrontal cortex to do so otherwise and not join up in any cultural brainwashing.

The problem with the former is it is a volatile position. There is no steady-state certainty. There is always a clear and ever-present danger that any set of beliefs will be overturned and/or invalidated by new evidence which will then be painfully difficult to accept because we all form emotional attachments to our current Operating System.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote: The transhumanists are on a search for an immortality, but that search is futile, as futile as our first parents who searched for life apart from God but found only death.
How do you know it is futile? You are only making a theological assertion that has no basis in fact and can't be proven, just like all of your other religious assertions. Science has done many things that were once thought to be impossible. I think DNA editing might be another way that could lead to at least longer life spans in the future.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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MachineGhost wrote:
Xan wrote:You claimed not long ago to be "super smart". So where does that leave us?
I have given this some further thought. It goes back to what one fundamentally believes in as their core Operating System...

1) An ever increasing intellectual dynamic search for the functionally objective truth (i.e. knowledge and wisdom).

or

2) The statist emotional comfort of faith-based fantasies -- which are typically the opposite of accepting any self-responsibility for one's life, one's choices and the resulting outcome, hence the seductive hand-washing of kowtowing and submitting to capricious "rules" and "laws" emanating from a supposed all-powerful, omniscient diety or dieties at the worst.

We know that humans cannot handle an emotional vacuum so they will overwhelmingly choose the latter. It is the path of least resistance. One needs to have an extremely strong prefrontal cortex to do so otherwise and not join up in any cultural brainwashing.

The problem with the former is it is a volatile position. There is no steady-state certainty. There is always a clear and ever-present danger that any set of beliefs will be overturned and/or invalidated by new evidence which will then be painfully difficult to accept because we all form emotional attachments to our current Operating System.
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons."

How do you know that everything you just said isn't a weird thing you are skilled at defending?
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: The transhumanists are on a search for an immortality, but that search is futile, as futile as our first parents who searched for life apart from God but found only death.
How do you know it is futile? You are only making a theological assertion that has no basis in fact and can't be proven, just like all of your other religious assertions. Science has done many things that were once thought to be impossible. I think DNA editing might be another way that could lead to at least longer life spans in the future.
Thank you for attributing the quote to me, but it came from the author in the link. You seem to quite frequently get the attributions incorrect or mixed up. E.g. the you and your in your post above.

Anyway, I think the author in the linked material quite nailed your response concerning science and DNA by this part of the previous excerpts:

Transhumanism substitutes faith in technology for faith in God. If we don’t believe the story of the God who conquered death for us, transhumanism holds onto the hope that we can conquer death ourselves. But that hope is an illusion. The dream of uploading one’s mind onto a robot to achieve immortality is the mere fantasy of individuals looking for comfort that they will never find apart from the Gospel.

Blessings dude, and may the peace of God find you and free you from your illusions.
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote: Transhumanism substitutes faith in technology for faith in God.
I don't know if Transhumanism will ever happen but that sounds like a pretty good substitute to me. The Bible says faith can move a mountain but I've yet to see it happen. I have seen human technology tunnel through them however.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: Transhumanism substitutes faith in technology for faith in God.


I don't know if Transhumanism will ever happen but that sounds like a pretty good substitute for me. The Bible says faith can move a mountain but I've yet to see it happen. I have seen human technology tunnel through them however.


It's all about timing, TIMING! May God open your ears to hear so you can make use of all the abilities God has given you. God's peace. I do know now why you have tunnel vision. Thanks for clarifying. :)

2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (ESV) 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Xan wrote:How do you know that everything you just said isn't a weird thing you are skilled at defending?
It's quite possible that none of us are ultimately responsible for what beliefs we choose to believe in. But that wouldn't make us very human and I think empirical and anecdotal evidence soundly contradicts such a notion. Yes, I know you don't like the ideal of self-responsibility instead of submitting to your "God" without second thought, but we must all seriously consider the fact that we could be utterly wrong about what we believe in. We have no real factual way of knowing in an empirical sense for sure what is so until we die for good -- everything is second order, tertiery and/or fabricated "evidence" up to that point.

Personally, I think its acting from a position of weakness in kowtowing to some "Grand Poobah" faith and hedge your bets just because you're fearful of spending eternity in some "purgatory" or "hell" for being a naked ape. If "Grand Poobah" was truly loving, wise, understanding and operated using reason instead of being an emotionally sadistic, volatile prick, then he/she/it would immediately understand the logic and forgive you for your "sins". So I can sleep at night. I have faith.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote: It's all about timing, TIMING!
What does that mean?
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: It's all about timing, TIMING!
What does that mean?
curlew,

It means: 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (ESV) 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

I suspect many of our differing views about Scripture are due to us having been taught differing types of interpretation methods and due to us holding differing presuppositions. For example in your question about the meaning of "it's all about timing", and in the context of the Scripture I quoted, are you refering to events prior to the Last Day, or events afterward in the new creation when you say you have not seen faith move mountains?

God's peace to you.
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote:
curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: It's all about timing, TIMING!
What does that mean?
curlew,

It means: 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (ESV) 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
I still don't know what your timing comment or the verse you are quoting has to do with whether transhumanism is possible or not. My view is that I agree with you that with God it is not possible, but with humans it might be. As for the verse, I'm not a Christian so I only look to things that are seen. Looking to things unseen does not compute to me.
Mountaineer wrote: I suspect many of our differing views about Scripture are due to us having been taught differing types of interpretation methods and due to us holding differing presuppositions. For example in your question about the meaning of "it's all about timing", and in the context of the Scripture I quoted, are you refering to events prior to the Last Day, or events afterward in the new creation when you say you have not seen faith move mountains?

God's peace to you.
I am only referring to the verse where Jesus said if you have faith as a mustard seed you can speak to a mountain and tell it move. He said this in the context of his disciples trying to cast out a demon and wondering why it didn't work. But then he also admitted that the he kind of demon they were trying to cast out was a tough one and also required prayer and fasting along with faith. If there was any reference to timing/last day/new creation in this story, I missed it.

As for methods of interpretation I was never taught one and never had any interest in the subject. To my way of thinking, if the Bible truly was the divinely revealed Word of God, then where do the man made rules of interpretation come from? Are they also divinely inspired? So I just read the Bible and let the Holy Spirit interpret it for me, eschewing all man-made interpretations. You might be thinking this is why I ultimately rejected Christianity and you might be partly right. Once I realized that the "Holy Spirit" was nothing more than my imagination I had no man-made dogma left to hold onto.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
curlew wrote:
What does that mean?
curlew,

It means: 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (ESV) 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
I still don't know what your timing comment or the verse you are quoting has to do with whether transhumanism is possible or not. My view is that I agree with you (or the author of that piece but I assumed you agreed with him) that with God it is not possible, but with humans it might be. As for the verse, I'm not a Christian so I only look to things that are seen. Looking to things unseen does not compute to me.
Mountaineer wrote: I suspect many of our differing views about Scripture are due to us having been taught differing types of interpretation methods and due to us holding differing presuppositions. For example in your question about the meaning of "it's all about timing", and in the context of the Scripture I quoted, are you refering to events prior to the Last Day, or events afterward in the new creation when you say you have not seen faith move mountains?

God's peace to you.
I am only referring to the verse where Jesus said if you have faith as a mustard seed you can speak to a mountain and tell it move. He said this in the context of his disciples trying to cast out a demon and wondering why it didn't work. But then he also admitted that the he kind of demon they were trying to cast out was a tough one and also required prayer and fasting along with faith. If there was any reference to timing/last day/new creation in this story, I missed it.

As for methods of interpretation I was never taught one and never had any interest in the subject. To my way of thinking, if the Bible truly was the divinely revealed Word of God, then where do the man made rules of interpretation come from? Are they also divinely inspired? So I just read the Bible and let the Holy Spirit interpret it for me, eschewing all man-made interpretations. You might be thinking this is why I ultimately rejected Christianity and you might be partly right. Once I realized that the "Holy Spirit" was nothing more than my imagination I had no man-made dogma left to hold onto.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:
curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
curlew,

It means: 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (ESV) 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
I still don't know what your timing comment or the verse you are quoting has to do with whether transhumanism is possible or not. My view is that I agree with you (or the author of that piece but I assumed you agreed with him) that with God it is not possible, but with humans it might be. As for the verse, I'm not a Christian so I only look to things that are seen. Looking to things unseen does not compute to me.
Mountaineer wrote: I suspect many of our differing views about Scripture are due to us having been taught differing types of interpretation methods and due to us holding differing presuppositions. For example in your question about the meaning of "it's all about timing", and in the context of the Scripture I quoted, are you refering to events prior to the Last Day, or events afterward in the new creation when you say you have not seen faith move mountains?

God's peace to you.
I am only referring to the verse where Jesus said if you have faith as a mustard seed you can speak to a mountain and tell it move. He said this in the context of his disciples trying to cast out a demon and wondering why it didn't work. But then he also admitted that the he kind of demon they were trying to cast out was a tough one and also required prayer and fasting along with faith. If there was any reference to timing/last day/new creation in this story, I missed it.

As for methods of interpretation I was never taught one and never had any interest in the subject. To my way of thinking, if the Bible truly was the divinely revealed Word of God, then where do the man made rules of interpretation come from? Are they also divinely inspired? So I just read the Bible and let the Holy Spirit interpret it for me, eschewing all man-made interpretations. You might be thinking this is why I ultimately rejected Christianity and you might be partly right. Once I realized that the "Holy Spirit" was nothing more than my imagination I had no man-made dogma left to hold onto.
My method of interpretation has some similarity to yours and possibly some significant differences. Mine is "Scripture Interprets Scripture" and is the Word of God - thus it is God based and not man based. Yours seems to be "The Holy Spirit tells man to look within". Mine says the Holy Spirit's purpose is to make Jesus known. Yours seems to say the Holy Spirit tells you to base your interpretation on your own thoughts. Mine says the only place where Jesus is known is in the Scriptures, not in my sinful, corrupt heart. Mine is based on the external Word. Yours seems to be based in that internal sinful, corrupt heart. My presupposition is the Scriptures are the inspired, inerrant Word of God. Yours seems to be man's reason rules. Forgive me if I have misinterpreted your comments or misrepresented your beliefs.

As for the mustard seed passages. Have you considered the demon (Satan's minion) could be or symbolic of unbelief or doubt with the demon's mission being trying to diminish faith? Jesus, fully God and fully man, may have been the only person who had zero doubt, thus he had no difficulty casting out the most powerful demon and ultimately defeating even leader of the demons, the Father of Lies, Satan, on the cross for all time and for all people. Think about the passage of Peter walking on the water toward Jesus. He only began to sink when he doubted, when he took his eyes of Jesus.

Re. timing in the mustard seed parable: It is important to read Scripture in context. Sometimes the context is the passage, sometimes the Chapter, and sometimes the whole Bible. Thus, when one reads the mustard seed parable talking about faith to move mountains, when is it the Scriptures say that we will be perfect (i.e. including perfect faith)? Before the Last Day or after (see Revelation 21)? There is only one person to ever have perfect faith on this side of the Last Day - Jesus.
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote: My method of interpretation has some similarity to yours and possibly some significant differences. Mine is "Scripture Interprets Scripture" and is the Word of God - thus it is God based and not man based. Yours seems to be "The Holy Spirit tells man to look within". Mine says the Holy Spirit's purpose is to make Jesus known. Yours seems to say the Holy Spirit tells you to base your interpretation on your own thoughts. Mine says the only place where Jesus is known is in the Scriptures, not in my sinful, corrupt heart. Mine is based on the external Word. Yours seems to be based in that internal sinful, corrupt heart. My presupposition is the Scriptures are the inspired, inerrant Word of God. Yours seems to be man's reason rules. Forgive me if I have misinterpreted your comments or misrepresented your beliefs.
So, the difference between you and me is that you let the Holy Spirit reveal Jesus to you through the scriptures without relying on your own thoughts whereas I used my sinful corrupt heart? I have no idea how to respond to that. If that's what you want to believe, go with it.

Actually, I am quite familiar with the "Scripture Interprets Scripture" idea. The problem is that Scripture often contradicts Scripture and says two different things. And also if you look up most of the places where the gospels say that the Old Testament scriptures reveal Jesus, you will see that it does no such thing. (Whoops - there goes my sinful corrupt heart thinking again).
Mountaineer wrote: As for the mustard seed passages. Have you considered the demon (Satan's minion) could be or symbolic of unbelief or doubt with the demon's mission being trying to diminish faith? Jesus, fully God and fully man, may have been the only person who had zero doubt, thus he had no difficulty casting out the most powerful demon and ultimately defeating even leader of the demons, the Father of Lies, Satan, on the cross for all time and for all people. Think about the passage of Peter walking on the water toward Jesus. He only began to sink when he doubted, when he took his eyes of Jesus.
Yes, I have considered that those stories were meant to be symbolic and probably never really happened.
Mountaineer wrote: Re. timing in the mustard seed parable: It is important to read Scripture in context. Sometimes the context is the passage, sometimes the Chapter, and sometimes the whole Bible. Thus, when one reads the mustard seed parable talking about faith to move mountains, when is it the Scriptures say that we will be perfect (i.e. including perfect faith)? Before the Last Day or after (see Revelation 21)? There is only one person to ever have perfect faith on this side of the Last Day - Jesus.
And sometimes you're just making the context up as you go along (whoops again).
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Matthew 13
The Purpose of the Parables
10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Edit: For you who try to defend against the unknown (e.g. the PP believers) try antifragility, (the ultimate reason for faith in the promises of Jesus?). ;) ;D

https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Thin ... 0812979680

Watch out for those Black Swans you can't see.
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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interactive processing wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: Yours seems to be "The Holy Spirit tells man to look within". Mine says the Holy Spirit's purpose is to make Jesus known. Yours seems to say the Holy Spirit tells you to base your interpretation on your own thoughts. Mine says the only place where Jesus is known is in the Scriptures, not in my sinful, corrupt heart. Mine is based on the external Word. Yours seems to be based in that internal sinful, corrupt heart. My presupposition is the Scriptures are the inspired, inerrant Word of God. Yours seems to be man's reason rules. Forgive me if I have misinterpreted your comments or misrepresented your beliefs.
so when if you are filled with the spirit and receive "the word" where exactly do you receive it? of not in your own thoughts twisted by reason or in your corrupt and sinful heart* then where?? what is this magical state where you experience the "external", without it ever being processed through or by you in any way....


You got that right. Whenever confronted with reason that contradicts your beliefs, just make it go away by chalking it up to a corrupt and sinful heart and quoting some scripture.
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MachineGhost
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by MachineGhost »

Here are much better quality versions of the two Penn & Teller episodes I previously posted:

Creationism http://www.watchseries.ac/link/allmyvideos.net/3965941
The Bible: Fact or Fiction? http://www.watchseries.ac/link/allmyvideos.net/3965482
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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God is always right. The article below shows yet another example of what happens when we ignore God's will for us. His Law is intended to show our sin and to show how God wants us to live in accordance with his will. His Gospel shows us the way of salvation and His forgivness for that sin.

... Mountaineer

http://cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapm ... ays-it-was

"Syphilis is literally making a comeback thanks to homosexual men," said LaBarbera. "It's the new gay disease. I think upwards of 80, high 80s, maybe 90% of syphilis cases are now linked to men who have sex with men. Not all of them identify as gay. You’ve got the secret, you know, a lot of people they don’t call themselves gay but they’re practicing sodomy on the side or what have you."

"I mean what we’re finding in science is that homosexuality is as bad as God said it was, and you can’t change that," said LaBarbera.

Last year, Dr. Gail Bolan, director of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) Division of STD Prevention, stated that the health organization is "seeing what we are calling pretty much an epidemic of syphilis among men who have sex with men," which started in 2000 but has dramatically increased since 2008, as CNSNews.com reported.
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
curlew
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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Mountaineer wrote:God is always right. The article below shows yet another example of what happens when we ignore God's will for us. His Law is intended to show our sin and to show how God wants us to live in accordance with his will. His Gospel shows us the way of salvation and His forgivness for that sin.

... Mountaineer
I don't have syphilis but I do have psoriasis so now you've got me wondering which law of God I might be violating. Maybe it's the one in Leviticus 19:19 that says not to wear clothes made of two kinds of cloth. I'll have to go through all my clothes and check.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

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curlew wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:God is always right. The article below shows yet another example of what happens when we ignore God's will for us. His Law is intended to show our sin and to show how God wants us to live in accordance with his will. His Gospel shows us the way of salvation and His forgivness for that sin.

... Mountaineer
I don't have syphilis but I do have psoriasis so now you've got me wondering which law of God I might be violating. Maybe it's the one in Leviticus 19:19 that says not to wear clothes made of two kinds of cloth. I'll have to go through all my clothes and check.
Well, curlew, only you and God know for sure, but my guess is the First Commandment is your primary personal nemesis. [Explanation from the Book of Concord, Large Catechism]

Blessings and God's peace to you ..... and may your psoriasis be bearable.

... Mountaineer

The First Commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

1] That is: Thou shalt have [and worship] Me alone as thy God. What is the force of this, and how is it to be understood? What does it mean to have a god? or, what is God?

2] Answer: A god means that from which we are to expect all good and to which we are to take refuge in all distress, so that to have a God is nothing else than to trust and believe Him from the [whole] heart; as I have often said that the confidence and faith of the heart alone make both God and an idol.

3] If your faith and trust be right, then is your god also true; and, on the other hand, if your trust be false and wrong, then you have not the true God; for these two belong together, faith and God. That now, I say, upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your god.

4] Therefore it is the intent of this commandment to require true faith and trust of the heart which settles upon the only true God, and clings to Him alone. That is as much as to say: "See to it that you let Me alone be your God, and never seek another," i.e.: Whatever you lack of good things, expect it of Me, and look to Me for it, and whenever you suffer misfortune and distress, creep and cling to Me. I, yes, I, will give you enough and help you out of every need; only let not your heart cleave to or rest in any other.

5] This I must unfold somewhat more plainly, that it may be understood and perceived by ordinary examples of the contrary. Many a one thinks that he has God and everything in abundance when he has money and, possessions; he trusts in them and boasts of them with such firmness and assurance as to care for no one.

6] Lo, such a man also has a god, Mammon by name, i.e., money and possessions, on which he sets all his heart, and which is also the most common idol on earth.

7] He who has money and possessions feels secure, and is joyful and undismayed as though he were sitting in the midst of Paradise.

8] On the other hand, he who has none doubts and is despondent, as though he knew of no God.

9] For very few are to be found who are of good cheer, and who neither mourn nor complain if they have not Mammon. This [care and desire for money] sticks and clings to our nature, even to the grave.

10] So, too, whoever trusts and boasts that he possesses great skill, prudence, power, favor, friendship, and honor has also a god, but not this true and only God. This appears again when you notice how presumptuous, secure, and proud people are because of such possessions, and how despondent when they no longer exist or are withdrawn. Therefore I repeat that the chief explanation of this point is that to have a god is to have something in which the heart entirely trusts.

More at: http://bookofconcord.org/lc-3-tencommandments.php
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3
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