Why Americans are giving up citizenship in record numbers (Taxes not Trump)

[Ad Orientem]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... d-numbers/

[MachineGhost]

They're dwarfed by millionaire immigrants coming in, so who's really the dumb ones? I think its just already overseas expatriates sick of FATCA.

[craigr]

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The prospect of mogul Donald Trump sitting in the Oval Office has driven celebrities and commonfolk alike to contemplate moving to Canada...

Why do lefties always want to move to Canada and not Honduras or Sierra Leone?

[Mountaineer]

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The prospect of mogul Donald Trump sitting in the Oval Office has driven celebrities and commonfolk alike to contemplate moving to Canada...

Why do lefties always want to move to Canada and not Honduras or Sierra Leone?

Or Venezuela, the ultimate socialist experiment gone very, very, bad - every thing from toilet paper to food in short supply. Capitalism certainly has its flaws, just not as bad of flaws as the socialist utopia system.

http://www.gopusa.com/socialism-for-the-uninformed/

... Mountaineer

[MachineGhost]

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The prospect of mogul Donald Trump sitting in the Oval Office has driven celebrities and commonfolk alike to contemplate moving to Canada...

Why do lefties always want to move to Canada and not Honduras or Sierra Leone?

Or New Zealand?

[barrett]

From the article:

"The IRS publishes the names of each American who gives up his or her citizenship. The list comes out every three months, and international tax lawyer Andrew Mitchel has tallied them up. In the first quarter of this year, 1,158 people expatriated — more than 10 times the number in the first quarter of 2008, when Mitchel began his count. Last year, a record 4,279 people renounced their citizenship."

These numbers just look incredibly low to me. We're talking about a country of over 300 million people. A better headline would be "Astounding Percentage Of Americans Choosing To Stay Put." 4,279 works out to about 12 people a day. There just aren't a lot of folks making this decision.

[dualstow]

Canada's cold but I'll definitely take Canada over Honduras. Wow, Honduras sucks. I managed to have a good time, but I was glad to leave. Even the US coast guard people there seemed miserable, or maybe I just got that impression because they were bullying me at an outdoor restaurant.

[jafs]

Liberals like Canada for a lot of reasons:

Canadians are smart and well-informed, generally.
The government works well, and people see it as a positive thing and a way to solve problems.
There's a large middle class, with fewer people at the extremes on both ends (like America used to have).
In a lot of ways, it works like a better version of America - there's still a lot of freedom and a vibrant private sector economy, with plenty of goods/services available.
They're engaged in a lot fewer violent conflicts around the world than we are.
Generally, they treat the environment better than we do, and are more mindful of that.
The health care system, although imperfect, works well for many people, creating a sense of security.

We loved Canada, for all of these reasons and more. When we met with some doctors who had practiced in both countries (a very nice husband and wife), they summed up the difference between Canada and the US in their experience as "If you have a lot of money, you can do better in the US, but if not, you can do better in Canada".

Perhaps there's some confusion between "liberals" and "radical socialists/communists" or some such - this is often the case these days.

[Pointedstick]

There's an uncomfortably large amount of truth to the notion that Canada is like a better-functioning USA. I like it there, too. Liberals also like Western Europe and its other descendent countries (Australia, New Zealand) a lot, for similar reasons.

Something they'll rarely admit though is that a huge part of the reason why these countries work well is because they work hard to preserve their cultural heritage instead of embracing a multicultural "melting pot." (or worse, a "salad bowl"). They have national languages and sometimes national religions. They have very strictly enforced immigration policies. And as a result, they are mostly inhabited by high-quality people from high-quality cultures that stress education, hard work, and contentiousness; people whose cultural backgrounds are almost entirely Western European, Indian, and East Asian. These countries don't have a ton of people from Africa or the middle east, or sizable indigenous populations. For example, the percentage of Canada's population that is not white or Asian is 9.2%. In the UK, it's about 4%. In the USA, it's 31.5%.

The extent to which this is changing in certain countries (e.g. France) is highly-correlated with the rise of huge socio-cultural problems that didn't used to happen there.

[jafs]

Why is it "uncomfortable"?

I don't think Canada has a national language or religion, and I'm not sure what they might do to cement a national culture.

Where did you find percentages of ethnic groups? I looked a little bit and didn't find any of that.

[l82start]

Why is it "uncomfortable"?

I don't think Canada has a national language or religion, and I'm not sure what they might do to cement a national culture.

Where did you find percentages of ethnic groups? I looked a little bit and didn't find any of that.

they have two national languages English and French, I am not sure how "official" it is but they are the two required for signs and labelling, (there is always some French English separation tension going on in Quebec)
I don’t think there is an official religion but my memory says "mostly catholic" at least in the 70s... but that may not be correct or only representative of the area I am familiar with..

and there is hockey, Tim Horton doughnuts, politeness and using eh to end sentences to cement the culture

[Pointedstick]

Why is it "uncomfortable"?
I don't think Canada has a national language or religion

Canada has two official languages: English and French. The UK and Denmark have official languages and religions. Every other European and European-derived country has one or more official languages.

The USA does not have an official language or religion.

Why is it "uncomfortable"?
and I'm not sure what they might do to cement a national culture.

That strikes me as an odd position to take. My impression is that liberals envision a muscular role for government in changing elements its society's culture that are seen as unjust or unfair. Seems weird that none of that power would carry over to protecting the culture. It strikes me as a failure of imagination. My reading of history is that people create government to preserve and promote their socio-economic interests, not for empowering their betters to reform their barbarous ways (not that it always works out either of those ways, of course).

Why is it "uncomfortable"?
Where did you find percentages of ethnic groups? I looked a little bit and didn't find any of that.

Wikipedia.

[jafs]

Thanks for the info.

No, I meant that I don't know what they might actually be doing to cement their culture, if they're doing that. There are certainly any number of things that a government might be able to do if they wanted to do that.

What does the national language thing mean exactly?

And, why is it uncomfortable?

[Pointedstick]

Thanks for the info.

No, I meant that I don't know what they might actually be doing to cement their culture, if they're doing that. There are certainly any number of things that a government might be able to do if they wanted to do that.

In the last few decades, many of them aren't, having embraced multiculturalism. The implication is that those places are going to be much less desirable to visit or live in, even for the liberals who support those multicultural policies.

What does the national language thing mean exactly?

It means anything official needs to be in one of those languages, and it is the stated policy that everyone become proficient in one or more of those languages. A lot of it is just cultural, but some of it has legal implications since it means the government can force schools and shops to stop offering services only in a foreign language, which encourages ethnic ghettoization and inequality.

And, why is it uncomfortable?

My impression is that most liberals are in favor of less-restrictive immigration policies and more domestic acceptance of multiculturalism. They prefer the "salad bowl" vs the "melting pot" or the "monochrome pudding" (I just made that one up). They seem not to understand that their favorite places--as evidenced by their observed behavior in choices of housing and vacationing--are generally more homogenous rather than multicultural, and the multiculturalism they politically and emotionally support will actually shatter the character of the places they love, leading them to unconsciously cluster in homogenous (often gated) communities of wealthy white liberals, which increases the level of inequality that they also claim to hate.

[jafs]

Oh, you meant uncomfortable for liberals - I thought you meant you found it uncomfortable.

The nature of American society/culture has always been multi-cultural, so I never understand people wanting to "preserve" American culture by making it homogeneous.

There seem to be a lot of different cultures in Canada from the Wikipedia page.

I would say that it's almost certainly "easier" for us all to get along with people who are more like us, although that's defined differently for each of us and doesn't necessarily break down along racial/ethnic lines. For example, I prefer intelligent, quiet, considerate neighbors - but I don't care about their ethic origin/sexuality/etc. at all.

I'd rather live next door to a black lesbian in a committed 3-way relationship if she's smart, quiet and considerate than to a straight married white man if he's not.

[Ad Orientem]

One thing worth remembering is that it is a lot easier to spend huge percentages of your national budget on social welfare programs and other liberal candy when you have someone else taking care of your national defense. Canada (and for that matter most of Europe) is a de-facto US military protectorate. Their military could not defend a medium sized city much less their entire country.

[MachineGhost]

There's an uncomfortably large amount of truth to the notion that Canada is like a better-functioning USA. I like it there, too. Liberals also like Western Europe and its other descendent countries (Australia, New Zealand) a lot, for similar reasons.

Something they'll rarely admit though is that a huge part of the reason why these countries work well is because they work hard to preserve their cultural heritage instead of embracing a multicultural "melting pot." (or worse, a "salad bowl"). They have national languages and sometimes national religions. They have very strictly enforced immigration policies. And as a result, they are mostly inhabited by high-quality people from high-quality cultures that stress education, hard work, and contentiousness; people whose cultural backgrounds are almost entirely Western European, Indian, and East Asian. These countries don't have a ton of people from Africa or the middle east, or sizable indigenous populations. For example, the percentage of Canada's population that is not white or Asian is 9.2%. In the UK, it's about 4%. In the USA, it's 31.5%.

The extent to which this is changing in certain countries (e.g. France) is highly-correlated with the rise of huge socio-cultural problems that didn't used to happen there.

You sure hit the nail on the head! Our open borders/unenforcement/non-assimilation policy is destroying us just as the Huns (?) did to Rome.

Canada also has very high marginal income and corporate tax rates, jack-booted raid censorsorhip against what we would consider free speech here (anarchism, porn, anything politically contentious, etc). a dysfunctional/bankrupt health care system that they've had to resort to legalizing private health insurance for an outlet vent, wanton environmental destruction due to oil sands, an unresponsive Federal bueaucracy to the provinces, a huge real estate property bubble that has yet to deflate despite 2007-2009, etc. so its not all milk and cookies like deluded Hollywood celebrities believe (they all talk smack and never act, so just ignore them). So Canada is like our 51st state with a flair for a Louisiana-style Quebec. If Canada had any sense, they would not ever join with the USA or they'll go the way of Great Britain if they don't vote to get the hell out of the EU.