"Stupid in America"

[Xan]

Speaking of public education, this (fairly old) Stossel special is well worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

[Ad Orientem]

If you want an exercise in humility, try the Entrance Examination for students applying for admission to Cornell University in 1890.
https://archive.org/stream/questionpape ... 3/mode/2up

I have an AA, a BA (cum laude) and two Masters (MA and MLS) and I feel like I would not have passed basic high school in 1890.

[MediumTex]

I think that one reason that not many people went to college back in the day was that it was a lot harder than it is today.

I get the impression that a college degree today from many universitities is equivalent to a high school degree from the mid-20th century back.

Law school was the only really rigorous academic environment I've ever been in.  Everything else has always seemed pretty easy and I have always thought that in many cases the students and teachers liked it that way.  When it starts getting hard, parents start complaining and that entitlement thing starts kicking in.

I think that undergraduate engineering, math and computer science courses are probably very challenging, but I was a political science major, so all I heard were rumors.

[Mountaineer]

If you want an exercise in humility, try the Entrance Examination for students applying for admission to Cornell University in 1890.
https://archive.org/stream/questionpape ... 3/mode/2up

I have an AA, a BA (cum laude) and two Masters (MA and MLS) and I feel like I would not have passed basic high school in 1890.

Oh my - those questions were far harder than I remember from hight school.  I'm thinking my great grandparents (graduated high school in the late 1800s) were a whole lot better educated than I.  As an aside, I was talking with a current high school junior who was telling me how he loved history and how good he was at it, tops in his class.  I asked him what was significant about the year 1066 and he gave me a blank look.  It has been over 50 years since I learned the answer and I still remember.  Go figure.  I'm going to stick with my entropy comment on another thread.

... M

[Libertarian666]

If you want an exercise in humility, try the Entrance Examination for students applying for admission to Cornell University in 1890.
https://archive.org/stream/questionpape ... 3/mode/2up

I have an AA, a BA (cum laude) and two Masters (MA and MLS) and I feel like I would not have passed basic high school in 1890.

Oh my - those questions were far harder than I remember from hight school.  I'm thinking my great grandparents (graduated high school in the late 1800s) were a whole lot better educated than I.  As an aside, I was talking with a current high school junior who was telling me how he loved history and how good he was at it, tops in his class.  I asked him what was significant about the year 1066 and he gave me a blank look.  It has been over 50 years since I learned the answer and I still remember.  Go figure.  I'm going to stick with my entropy comment on another thread.

... M

Yes, I would also have a lot of trouble with that exam, not least because I didn't learn Latin, Greek, French, and German in high school.

I actually did take one year of Latin in either 8th or 9th grade, so maybe I would have been able to answer that part in those days.

[Ad Orientem]

In fairness I should note that things were quite different in the 19th century. There was no assumption that everyone, down to and including the village idiot had a "right" to go to college. There were not the vast plethora of colleges and universities we have today all competing with one another to get and retain students (and their tuition). This has naturally lowered the bar quite a bit in terms of standards. Beyond which many of those applying to Cornell or any other university would likely have come from the ranks of the well off and benefited from the privileges of their social class. Those privileges might well have included private schools and tutors. Still, it is abundantly clear that anyone who aspired to college and the dignity of "an educated man" was expected to have a minimum level of education that is light years beyond what the typical college applicant of 2016 possesses.

[Libertarian666]

In fairness I should note that things were quite different in the 19th century. There was no assumption that everyone, down to and including the village idiot had a "right" to go to college. There were not the vast plethora of colleges and universities we have today all competing with one another to get and retain students (and their tuition). This has naturally lowered the bar quite a bit in terms of standards. Beyond which many of those applying to Cornell or any other university would likely have come from the ranks of the well off and benefited from the privileges of their social class. Those privileges might well have included private schools and tutors. Still, it is abundantly clear that anyone who aspired to college and the dignity of "an educated man" was expected to have a minimum level of education that is light years beyond what the typical college applicant doctoral graduate of 2016 possesses.

FIFY.

[WildAboutHarry]

[quote='Ad Orientem']In fairness I should note that things were quite different in the 19th century. There was no assumption that everyone, down to and including the village idiot had a "right" to go to college. There were not the vast plethora of colleges and universities we have today all competing with one another to get and retain students (and their tuition). This has naturally lowered the bar quite a bit in terms of standards. Beyond which many of those applying to Cornell or any other university would likely have come from the ranks of the well off and benefited from the privileges of their social class. Those privileges might well have included private schools and tutors. Still, it is abundantly clear that anyone who aspired to college and the dignity of "an educated man" was expected to have a minimum level of education that is light years beyond what the typical college applicant of 2016 possesses.[/quote]

And they didn't have your diet sodas and your M-TV!

[moda0306]

In fairness I should note that things were quite different in the 19th century. There was no assumption that everyone, down to and including the village idiot had a "right" to go to college. There were not the vast plethora of colleges and universities we have today all competing with one another to get and retain students (and their tuition). This has naturally lowered the bar quite a bit in terms of standards. Beyond which many of those applying to Cornell or any other university would likely have come from the ranks of the well off and benefited from the privileges of their social class. Those privileges might well have included private schools and tutors. Still, it is abundantly clear that anyone who aspired to college and the dignity of "an educated man" was expected to have a minimum level of education that is light years beyond what the typical college applicant doctoral graduate of 2016 possesses.

FIFY.

Do we really have evidence of this?  From what you guys say, we are way dumber today, on average, than we were in, say, 1970.

I don't really know about that.

It sounds like one of those "oh the crime and murder these days" comments that might not be factual.

But I could easily be wrong in my instincts here so I'm curious what evidence there is of the average HS grad today being materially dumber than that of yester-year.

[Ad Orientem]

... so I'm curious what evidence there is of the average HS grad today being materially dumber than that of yester-year.

Take the test I linked in my first comment and let me know how you do.

[dragoncar]

... so I'm curious what evidence there is of the average HS grad today being materially dumber than that of yester-year.

Take the test I linked in my first comment and let me know how you do.

And how would a 1920 Cornell grad do on my EE exams?

[Ad Orientem]

... so I'm curious what evidence there is of the average HS grad today being materially dumber than that of yester-year.

Take the test I linked in my first comment and let me know how you do.

And how would a 1920 Cornell grad do on my EE exams?

I am assuming a lot of the material you dealt with did not exist in 1920. Was there any material from the 1890 test that vanished from human knowledge prior to your EE exams?