Modern TVs & 'the Soap Opera Effect'

[dualstow]

Modern TVs & 'the Soap Opera Effect': Judder, Motion Blur, Motion Interpolation

Have we already discussed this?
Did any of you notice a change in picture quality with regard to motion when you moved from CRTs to flatscreen TVs, especially LCDs?

My last TV was a CRT (cathode ray tube), a big fat one despite its small screen. It was the biggest CRT that I could fit in a small room, and I bought it because I could not stand the "sterile" look of LCD TVs at the time. 2005. Plasma might not have had this problem, but was always too expensive. Computer monitors were also immune, but are only good for watching alone.

I finally caved the other week and got a flatscreen, also our first smart TV. It's a 4K and has a nice crisp picture, and it's big enough that I can read text from far away.

BUT, I had to turn down the anti-motion blur or anti-judder setting, or whatever it's called. I'm one of those people who is very sensitive to the "soap opera effect" (popular term), where even film shot in the 70s looks like it was shot with a video camera. Quick motion, like in cop dramas, seems sped up. A lot of shows look sterile (my term),  just like they did in 2005.

Apparently this has something to do with frame rates, and even expensive TVs are not immune. I'm still reading up on it.

Do you guys know what I'm talking about?

[Pointedstick]

Yes. My sister in law is a professional video person and she hates this too. It's the high framerate! Your TV probably has a way to turn it down to less than 30 FPS, and that will immediately help enormously. It's usually not labeled as such, but the high-framerate settings are usually called something like "sports mode." Or something like that. Turn it off!

[dualstow]

Thanks!

I think the crucial setting is "anti-motion blur" on a lot of TVs. On my particular set it's anti-judder and I changed it on Day One, but there are other settings in the same group that may also help. Viewing experience is definitely better in general since I made the adjustment but occasionally I can still see the effect. I'll check to see if I can change the framerate.

I haven't really tested it with blu-ray, having only watched a space & planet documentary without people moving around. Actually, I don't know if the medium or if the recording makes a difference, since as I wrote, even 70s films have lost their warmth, but I suspect it does.

[rickb]

It's a mismatch between the source frame rate (often 24 fps) and the display frame rate (generally 60 fps).  If the TV is getting input frames at 24 per second but has to generate output frames at 60 per second, there's a problem (since 24 doesn't divide evenly into 60).  There's a reasonably accessible discussion of this at http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-1080p24/

And, yes, the medium and recording matter. 

[dualstow]

Thanks, rick.

[MachineGhost]

Did any of you notice a change in picture quality with regard to motion when you moved from CRTs to flatscreen TVs, especially LCDs?

Only if you didn't do your research before buying.  Most models let you turn the "sopa opera effect" off now, but this wasn't always the case, or especially on low end, second or third-tier models.

For what its worth, a flat screen picture is always more optimal with all that extraneous marketing fiction junk turned off.

Motion blur and judder are two separate things.  Blur is because the pixel response time of the display is too slow (not sure its a real problem anymore except on PC monitors).  Judder is inherent in 24p film when panning or fast action scenes.  Frame rate cannot be manually adjusted.  The anti-judder options (usually under names such as Movie or Cinema mode) just insert blank black intervals or other timing mechanisms to attempt to deal with the problem of displaying at 60hz or its higher iterations (higher Hz will induce the "soap opera effect" if its for improving motion blur which implies the panel is shit at native 60hz or 120hz).  We're all used to judder because movies are filmed at 24hz so I don't see why there needs to be a "soap opera effect" to begin with unless the display cannot handle proper native 24p (very common, even on my plasma).  But some people are anally sensitive to judder and rather have the option to fix that at cost of "soap opera effect"!  A great test for judder is to do the opening pan sequence with the train on Hugo.  If its not smooth all the way down, you've got a display or setting that can't succesfully deal with judder.

Also, AFAIK, only Panasonic or Goldstar (forgot their new name) BluRay players have a Netflix app that supports streaming in 24p.  So if you want the full movie effect, you need a BluRay, a Netflix app that supports it and a display that can actually drive down to 24Hz to display it properly with no gimmicks, either hardware or software settings.  And avoid overhyped tripe like The Hobbit or its sequels which was filmed in 60Hz.  "Soap opera erfect" makes me think of porn.  Always.

[dualstow]

We're all used to judder because movies are filmed at 24hz so I don't see why there needs to be a "soap opera effect" to begin with unless the display cannot handle proper native 24p (very common, even on my plasma).  But some people are anally sensitive to judder and rather have the option to fix that at cost of "soap opera effect"!  A great test for judder is to do the opening pan sequence with the train on Hugo.  If its not smooth all the way down, you've got a display or setting that can't succesfully deal with judder.

I see. That's good information!

Also, AFAIK, only Panasonic or Goldstar (forgot their new name)

LG?