The thought crimes of Donald Trump

[screwtape]

So, according to Donald Trump, the people sneaking across the border from Mexico to enter the U.S. illegally are not the most desirable Mexican and Latin American citizens? Some are even rapists?

What's really amazing to me is that the only story we get in the media is about how outrageous and offensive Donald Trump's statement was and how liberals are reacting to it, not whether what he said has any truth to it or not.

I'm not a fan of Trump but I like the way he's playing this and it's obviously working based on the polls. Your average politician would already be backtracking and apologizing with "I'm sorry if I offended any one". I'm thinking maybe he could end up surprising in the upcoming election. 

[Pointedstick]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/dona ... his-party/

Trump's statements are very much mainstream in the conservative part of the electorate.

[MediumTex]

Trump is an idiot, but if he is going to be crucified for these comments we should at least have a discussion about whether they are true.

As with the flag debate, though, the media doesn't care about exploring the merits of his claims; the media just smells blood in the water and wants to take someone down.

There are eerie parallels between the flag debate and Trump's Mexico comments in that they both involve an aging symbol of belligerence on its way to complete obsolescence that was resurrected by the media for the purpose of entertainment and agitation.

Did anyone hear that TV Land will no longer be showing re-runs of The Dukes of Hazzard because of its racist content?  I thought it was a joke at first, but apparently it's not.

[screwtape]

As with the flag debate, though, the media doesn't care about exploring the merits of his claims; the media just smells blood in the water and wants to take someone down.

Ann Coulter on the subject of rapists and other criminals coming across the border .... http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-07-01.html

And is there anybody who really believes that what Donald Trump said wasn't true? (unless you want to twist his words to say that he meant everyone coming across the border illegally is a rapist?) He also said some of them were good people but do you think, for the most part, that these are the best and brightest of Mexico and Latin American coming here in search of the American dream?

Jeb Bush might say that.

[MachineGhost]

Did anyone hear that TV Land will no longer be showing re-runs of The Dukes of Hazzard because of its racist content?  I thought it was a joke at first, but apparently it's not.

What racist content????  That show was as clean as a hillbilly.  There's probably more racism in a single episode of Justified or Sons of Anarchy than the entire series.

[screwtape]

Move along people. Nothing to see here. Nothing at all:

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/murders/@@wa ... up-listing

Figured you'd show up in this thread sooner or later unless you are enjoying yourself so much in New Zealand that you forgot all about us here in the poor old U.S.A.

[MediumTex]

Did anyone hear that TV Land will no longer be showing re-runs of The Dukes of Hazzard because of its racist content?  I thought it was a joke at first, but apparently it's not.

What racist content????  That show was as clean as a hillbilly.  There's probably more racism in a single episode of Justified or Sons of Anarchy than the entire series.

That's what they want you to believe.

The truth is that Dukes of Hazzard was one of the most racist shows ever to appear on television.

In addition to having a car named after a well-known U.S. traitor and emblazoned with a symbol of racism and hatred, the hound who played Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane's beloved dog, Flash (the dog's real name was Cyrus Wagner), was actually anything but a loveable pup off camera, and had known associations to various dog racist groups around the country.  He was once recorded in front of a rally saying: "We need to clean our kennels and exterminate all of these mutts and mongrels!!!"

Below is a photo of the show's racists cast, including the sweet-looking but black-hearted Flash.

[Pointedstick]

Of course it's racist, MT. How many black people, hispanics, and Asians do you see there? None? Then it's racist! Case closed.

[MediumTex]

Move along people. Nothing to see here. Nothing at all:

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/murders/@@wa ... up-listing

Dang, that list makes it look like ALL Mexican drug traffickers are murderers as well.

Because of our ridiculous drug laws, we basically siphon the worst of Mexico's society into work near our borders securing safe passage for drug shipments, which includes all sorts of violence.  I guess the drug smugglers just do the rapes in their free time.

In addition to the violent criminals that our drug laws import from Mexico, our appetite for cheap manual labor (I've heard it called "Manuel Labor") also pulls in many poor but very hardworking Mexicans into the U.S., many of whom are very productive members of our society who help lower the cost of housing by providing cheap skilled labor in the construction trades.  I don't fault them in the least for going where the economic opportunity is.

If you look at the crime rates of Mexicans in the U.S. who are not associated with the drug trade, I suspect it is similar to the crime rates of other low income groups.

[MediumTex]

Of course it's racist, MT. How many black people, hispanics, and Asians do you see there? None? Then it's racist! Case closed.

That's right!!!  Racists!!!

What’s worth noting, though, is that The Dukes of Hazzard, while not the most diverse show in television history, did, in fact, feature some black characters. The only regular black character was neighboring Chickasaw County Sheriff Little, portrayed by Don Pedro Colley, but over the course of seven seasons, the show featured at least 19 other black characters. Ji-Tu Cumbuka, Kevin Peter Hall, Al White (2 episodes), Hal Williams, Herb Jefferson Jr. (2 episodes), Steven Williams (2 episodes), Wally Taylor, John Dewey Carter, Ella Mae Brown, Ernie Hudson, James Reynolds, Woody Strode, Harrison Page, Teddy Wilson, Jesse D. Goins, William Allen Young, James Avery, Tony Brubaker, and Ken Foree all had roles during the series’ 146 episodes.

That’s an average of about one every seven episodes, at a time when the traditional lack of diversity on television was a lot worse than it was in, say, the nineties. Yet The Dukes of Hazzard, set in rural Georgia, outpaced two of the biggest 90s hits on television. In its 180-episode run, Seinfeld only managed to feature 19 black characters, while Friends was so white, they made a song about it.

LINK

[dragoncar]

I love the Mexican people, but Mexico is not our friend. They're killing us at the border and they're killing us on jobs and trade. FIGHT!

[MediumTex]

I love the Mexican people, but Mexico is not our friend. They're killing us at the border and they're killing us on jobs and trade. FIGHT!

How is Mexico killing us on jobs and trade?

Cheap foreign labor lowers the cost of products for U.S. consumers, right and opens up more markets for U.S.-made goods, right?  (Remember that up until recently, the U.S. was the #1 manufacturing economy in the world).

In the 10 years before NAFTA (effective 1-1-1994), the U.S. unemployment rate was 6%-8%.  In the 10 years after NAFTA, the U.S. unemployment rate was 4%-6%.  I don't see how free trade with Mexico has killed jobs or trade.

[MediumTex]

In addition to the violent criminals that our drug laws import from Mexico, our appetite for cheap manual labor (I've heard it called "Manuel Labor") also pulls in many poor but very hardworking Mexicans into the U.S., many of whom are very productive members of our society who help lower the cost of housing by providing cheap skilled labor in the construction trades.  I don't fault them in the least for going where the economic opportunity is.

Definitely the U.S. corporatism is looking to cheap labor where it can get it. They import it where they can, and will export that labor where they can. This group is the must responsible for the problem and their partnership to weaken border controls by controlling political action. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I'd like nothing more than for ICE to start kicking in the doors of some company CEOs at 3AM and take the into custody and start shutting down some businesses nationally.

And it may in fact be true that the cheap labor helps with construction, etc.

But that all misses the point that we don't need unskilled immigration. We have more than enough uneducated and unskilled people here already to do that work. The importation of this kind of labor just makes things worse but keeping unemployment high and wages low or falling.

I wonder for instance if things like Ferguson would have happened if the teen black unemployment rate wasn't so high? I then wonder how that black unemployment is greatly exacerbated by importation of cheap labor willing to work for cash under the table, or with stolen identities. 

If you look at the crime rates of Mexicans in the U.S. who are not associated with the drug trade, I suspect it is similar to the crime rates of other low income groups.

But don't we have enough criminals from that group already? Why do we need Mexico's as well?

I'm not saying I want to import more Mexicans, I'm just saying that it is a far more symbiotic relationship than people like Trump may want to admit.  I'll bet Trump's companies employ LOTS of Mexicans.

And the Mexican laborer issue may be beside the point because it seems like Trump is distinguishing between Mexican laborers and Mexican criminals, and it is the latter he is saying we don't want any more of.

[MediumTex]

How is Mexico killing us on jobs and trade?

I don't care about jobs and trade for the corporations leveraging cheap labor. There is no doubt it's a benefit to them to import cheap labor.

What is more interesting is the stagnation of wages across multiple industries, and the affect on lower income employment. You even see this now in the tech field where real wage growth is flat due to abuse of imported H1B labor.

On the lower end for instance, my first job was washing dishes at age 14. Today, I couldn't get that job. There would definitely be an illegal doing it. How does that kind of situation help American citizens? How would it have helped my 14 year old self that didn't have skills to do anything else but needed the money?

Fundamentally, importing labor and wages remaining low means there is no labor shortage. There is a labor surplus allowing that to happen.

You don't think a 14 year old white person could get a job washing dishes today?

When I was 14 I worked in the parking lot of a giant flea market, and then I moved up to a car wash when I was 15.  I worked with a lot of Mexicans at both places, but it never felt like we were competing against each other.  Both were crappy jobs and they were always hiring at both places because it was so hard to find ANYONE to do that work.

I know how you feel about immigration, but on the other end of the spectrum doesn't the U.S. benefit from being able to siphon a lot of the top talent from the rest of the world?  Doesn't that make the U.S. more productive?

Don't stagnating wages indicate a good balance of supply and demand in the labor market and act as a damper on inflation?  I've never seen a rapid rise in wages that wasn't accompanied by a rapid increase in the stuff you buy with your wages.

[dragoncar]

I love the Mexican people, but Mexico is not our friend. They're killing us at the border and they're killing us on jobs and trade. FIGHT!

How is Mexico killing us on jobs and trade?

I don't know, you're gonna have to ask Trump

[MediumTex]

So do you think that all of the foreign born doctors are lowering the quality of medical care or just lowering the wages of doctors?

The reason I ask is that I know several Indian cardiologists and they all seem to be making LOTS of money and they seem like they are very competent as well.

[Mountaineer]

When I was 14 I worked in the parking lot of a giant flea market, and then I moved up to a car wash when I was 15.  I worked with a lot of Mexicans at both places, but it never felt like we were competing against each other.  Both were crappy jobs and they were always hiring at both places because it was so hard to find ANYONE to do that work.

The problem has been identified!  You had a work ethic, as did your Mexican buds.  What the heck is the matter with you guys?  Don't you want free stuff?  Get with the program man, your kind is ruining a perfectly good system.

... M

[Lonestar]

When I was 14 I worked in the parking lot of a giant flea market, and then I moved up to a car wash when I was 15.  I worked with a lot of Mexicans at both places, but it never felt like we were competing against each other.  Both were crappy jobs and they were always hiring at both places because it was so hard to find ANYONE to do that work.

The problem has been identified!  You had a work ethic, as did your Mexican buds.  What the heck is the matter with you guys?  Don't you want free stuff?  Get with the program man, your kind is ruining a perfectly good system.

... M

You are exactly right!  We didn't have the immigration issue 40 years ago because it was more difficult to board the entitlement wagon (and I think we may have had more U.S. citizens still doing low income work, unlike today). 

[MachineGhost]

If we ever adopt a Citizen's Dividend, we damn well better actually tighten up the border and enforce it and allow it to only legal citizens and probably drop the birth clause in the Constitution. 

I really don't know what the hell the Border Patrol does now that allows so many illegal-undocumented-alien immigrants to get into the country.  Are they just all twiddling their thumbs or are they intentionally understaffed?  The whole situation is sooo perplexing.  Who exactly in Congress has the power to prevent effective border enforcement and how do they go about wielding it?  I'm tired of conspiracy theories or speculation.  No one really takes this issue on in my view.

It really frustrates me when legitimate refugees must wait years to get settled here while we have leaky borders for the worst gang thugs and relatives of Mexico and Central America to come in.  Where are the brass balls to get rid of these criminals???  We can be completely dicks to Arabs halfway across the world but here at home, everyone is a complete pussy.  What kind of cognitive dissonance is that?

[Lonestar]

If we ever adopt a Citizen's Dividend, we damn well better actually tighten up the border and enforce it and allow it to only legal citizens and probably drop the birth clause in the Constitution. 

I really don't know what the hell the Border Patrol does now that allows so many illegal-undocumented-alien immigrants to get into the country.  Are they just all twiddling their thumbs or are they intentionally understaffed?  The whole situation is sooo perplexing.  Who exactly in Congress has the power to prevent effective border enforcement and how do they go about wielding it?  I'm tired of conspiracy theories or speculation.  No one really takes this issue on in my view.

It really frustrates me when legitimate refugees must wait years to get settled here while we have leaky borders for the worst gang thugs and relatives of Mexico and Central America to come in.  Where are the brass balls to get rid of these criminals???  We can be completely dicks to Arabs halfway across the world but here at home, everyone is a complete pussy.  What kind of cognitive dissonance is that?

Considering how vast the Texas Lower Rio Grande Valley and the Big Bend area really is, it would be impossible for the Border Patrol to apprehend most of the illegals (I think I'm supposed to refer to them as Dreamers).  This does not even take into account AZ and CA borders.

They catch a few and send some back.  They turn around and swim right back over.

The agents have to exercise extreme caution when dealing with the sometimes dangerous intruders.  As you may recall, several years ago two agents shot a drug dealer as he was trying to escape back into Mexico.  They spent a couple of years in prison.

And by the way, they can never catch these drug dealers once they return to Mexico.  BUT, they were fortunate enough to catch this guy and bring him back to Texas to testify against the two Border Patrol agents.  How fortunate!

[Pointedstick]

Yeah, the Mexican border is too vast to effectively police without dramatically increasing law enforcement manpower and building a huge guarded wall or something, all of which would be extremely expensive and highly problematic for the small government and Libertarian wings of the Republican party.

The problem with Republicans is that they have no particularly coherent position on immigration. They are not willing to spend the resources building the infrastructure necessary to effectively prevent and reverse illegal immigration, nor are they willing to sanction business interests that spur it on. They're left to rage against hispanics (despite the fact that more than half of new immigrants are from Asia) without offering any realistic solutions.

[WiseOne]

If we ever adopt a Citizen's Dividend, we damn well better actually tighten up the border and enforce it and allow it to only legal citizens and probably drop the birth clause in the Constitution. 

+1 to dropping the birth clause.  The mothers in this vignette were likely here illegally, but their children were born on American soil are the means by which the entire family can obtain welfare benefits.  Take away that citizenship right, and there's no welfare.

This one simple move would take away one of the biggest incentives to jump the border and would visibly shrink the welfare rolls.  And it's essentially free.  Not sure why none of the Republicans have ever brought it up, apart from the obvious very negative response they'll get from Hispanics.

[Pointedstick]

Perhaps the cheapest solution of all is to prevent Mexicans (and Latin Americans) from wanting to be adopted by the USA in the first place. Why are they streaming over here? For the most part, they're fleeing drug war violence and its aftereffects. They would stay in their homes in their own societies if they could; who wouldn't? The USA has an ugly history of supporting disastrous drug policies in the region that have led to the rise of narcoterrorism, paramilitary gangs, and the hollowing-out of peaceful industry. If we want impoverished, undereducated hispanics south of the border to stop coming here, maybe we should stop pushing diplomatic, economic and military policies that are harming the ability of their societies to operate normally.

[Lonestar]

Yeah, the Mexican border is too vast to effectively police without dramatically increasing law enforcement manpower and building a huge guarded wall or something, all of which would be extremely expensive and highly problematic for the small government and Libertarian wings of the Republican party.

A wall and military patrols are way cheaper than adopting Mexico.

We guard the North/South Korea border with high success. It can be done in the U.S. In fact, why not bring those troops in Korea back here to guard our border and let the Koreans worry about their own border? Why is their border our concern?

Illegals that slip through can be denied jobs through employer enforcement, denied welfare, denied free travel by validating visas to be in the country for the most minor infraction, etc. Deport, deport, deport all violators. Let them appeal from their home country once deported and don't allow them to appeal before that.

It can be done, but has not be done due to deliberate government policy.

Personally I think we should hire the Israelis to build the wall and security monitoring as they've done on their own borders with walls. Then radically increase the size of ICE to go after employers providing jobs to illegals. We can have Mexico fund the building of the wall through sanctions, or seizing their oil rigs in the Gulf with the U.S. Navy and Marines to pay for it.

Then I would deny the use of any state driver's license that grants them to illegals for any Federal identification purpose. Consider those licenses tainted for opening bank accounts, air travel, etc. That will force states that made that decision to withdraw those laws when their legal citizens can no longer board planes, etc. with those IDs. Think now pissed CA residents will be when they need a Passport as the only officially recognized ID to fly go Vegas.

There are many ways to address these issues with existing federal legislation. But again, nobody wants to do it.

All very logical solutions Craig, but why spend hundreds of billions of dollars when simply doing what WiseOne suggested and refuse all welfare benefits?  Couple that with stiff laws that prohibit hiring the illegals and you got a winner!  No expensive fence and no vast army of enforcers.  A almost "costless" solution if correctly implemented.

Then there is no incentive for them to come in the first place unless they are in the drug business.  Maybe, just maybe we could even politely deal with them.  Maybe treat them like the military treats offenders that cross barriers.

None of this will ever come to pass because the left wants all the votes these immigrants can provide and the right is afraid to offend anyone.

Trump has no chance but at least he is not afraid to speak out!

[Lonestar]

And one more thing................here in Texas we have a lot of hard working, good family oriented, law abiding illegals from Mexico.  I sincerely wish there were reasonable legal channels that would allow them a path to citizenship.  If they are truly coming here to escape the poverty and violence from south of the border, and not to live free off the government, then more power to them.