Religion Of Peace Goes To Copenhagen. Free Speech, Religion Under Attack.

[Reub]

Copenhagen shooting during debate on Islam:

"One dead in shooting at a Copenhagen cultural centre, where a meeting about freedom of speech was being held - organised by a Swedish artist who had caricatured the Prophet Muhammad."

"A Copenhagen café holding an event in support of freedom of speech was attacked by two gunmen on Saturday, leaving one man dead and three police officers injured."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -live.html

[Reub]

A second attack occurred at a synagogue  ten hours later. I'm sure that Obama will categorize these as attacks against random folks again.

[Reub]

Just heard that ISIS executed 21 Christians in Libya. Also, the Islamic terrorist murderer in Denmark was on their terrorist watch list. Plus ISIS has recently overrun the city that is 5 miles from the US base in Iraq and attempted to infiltrate the base using suicide belts.

[Mountaineer]

Just heard that ISIS executed 21 Christians in Libya. Also, the Islamic terrorist murderer in Denmark was on their terrorist watch list. Plus ISIS has recently overrun the city that is 5 miles from the US base in Iraq and attempted to infiltrate the base using suicide belts.

Rube, a serious question:  What is it you do, or expect others to do, with this type of information? 

Full disclosure, I'm likely biased because I've pretty much stopped watching the national news - I have found it to be much more peaceful and less stressful to avoid sensationalized "quasi facts" that I can do nothing about until the next election - and probably not then.  But as I said, my question is a serious one; I might learn something I was previously unaware of.

... Mountaineer

[dualstow]

BERLIN -- Police in the German city of Braunschweig cancelled a popular Carnival street parade on Sunday because of fears of an imminent Islamist terror attack.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/german-carn ... -1.2237152

[Reub]

I'd like to preserve our nation and its freedoms. Sticking one's head in the sand is only good until you pop it up and it gets chopped off.

[Mountaineer]

I'd like to preserve our nation and its freedoms. Sticking one's head in the sand is only good until you pop it up and it gets chopped off.

I agree wholeheartedly.  But, what is it you do or expect others to do with this type information?

... Mountaineer

[dualstow]

I can't speak for Reub, but what are we supposed to do with the information when someone lands on the moon? It's news. And it's good to check in and learn what's happening now and then, even if it's not yet in our backyard. Fear is not compulsory- it's just checking in.

[WildAboutHarry]

Watson said of Sherlock Holmes:

"Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth traveled round the sun appeared to me to be such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it."

[Mountaineer]

dual and Wild,

I'm not advocating ignorance at all.  I am mainly asking about why watch someone slam obama 5000 times when a half dozen will show what he is like, or find out that a bunch of people are murdered by a terrorist - when it is the hundredth time I've heard that?  Why not just check in on internet sources, which are usually a bit more objective - maybe - than Fox or CNN or horror of horrors, MSNBC or Hufpost?  Maybe it is my engineering mind, but information without a purpose is useless information - it is only entertainment; and, I almost never watch the same movie 100 times.  I do value local news and enough national news to know when an election is coming up so I can brush up on anything I've missed.  Generally, I find the political news lacking for any meaningful purpose, at least anything that is actionable by me since I'm not a politician.  I'm still curious as what we should DO with another islamic attack (or similar) memo?

... Mountaineer

[Greg]

dual and Wild,

I'm not advocating ignorance at all.  I am mainly asking about why watch someone slam obama 5000 times when a half dozen will show what he is like, or find out that a bunch of people are murdered by a terrorist - when it is the hundredth time I've heard that?  Why not just check in on internet sources, which are usually a bit more objective - maybe - than Fox or CNN or horror of horrors, MSNBC or Hufpost?  Maybe it is my engineering mind, but information without a purpose is useless information - it is only entertainment; and, I almost never watch the same movie 100 times.  I do value local news and enough national news to know when an election is coming up so I can brush up on anything I've missed.  Generally, I find the political news lacking for any meaningful purpose, at least anything that is actionable by me since I'm not a politician.  I'm still curious as what we should DO with another islamic attack (or similar) memo?

... Mountaineer

Your opinion more or less resonates with me. I care more about general themes than I do the day-to-day interactions. That's one of the reasons for the Boston Bombings I waited about 6 months before starting to learn more about it. By then, you've lost the sensationalism and the quasi-facts and can just get to the real meat and potatoes. I feel this is a more efficient way of getting caught up on what is around you because otherwise like the entertainment/celebrity magazine stuff, it can just turn into a time sink with very little real benefit to your life.

[Pointedstick]

And therefore I'm interested in an answer to Mountaineer's question as well:

I'm still curious as what we should DO with another islamic attack (or similar) memo?

The obvious answer is "feel angry or upset about it," which is useless, since it's not actionable. That's why the news is bad for you; 99% of it just makes you feel negative emotions about upsetting but non-actionable information. The is no value to "being informed" if it consists of knowing the disturbing details of faraway events that present no relevance to one's life--not even the entertainment value that's present if the information happens to be nice.

[moda0306]

I certainly can appreciate the macro effects of an "uninformed" public.  But at the individual level it's hard to advocate watching the news and "staying informed."

If one were to want to develop a framework of going about life that would work for both levels, I'd say that developing the following traits would be a good way to be successful both individual and societal level.

1) Learn how to use logic. Not to win arguments so much as to realized when bullsh!t arguments are being used.

2) Seek to understand how people are motivated, generally.

This will both be abundantly useful on an individual level. They also will help you sort out politics to enoug of a degree that if everyone were to have those two traits, we'd probably have much "better government," as even without knowing the details of political events, if politicians know that the people they're talking to are using solid critical thinking skills and understand the human condition, good ideas will rise to the top, and bad ideas will quickly be shot down.

That gives me some peace of mind around adopting HB's philosophy while not being a complete dunce on the issues.

[madbean]

I'd like to preserve our nation and its freedoms. Sticking one's head in the sand is only good until you pop it up and it gets chopped off.

Show me some foreigners who really want to come over here and take our freedom away and have the power to do it and I will be all for fighting them. So far, all I've seen in my lifetime are claims that are nothing more than pure bullshit. The only people really bent on taking our freedom away live in Washington, D.C.

[moda0306]

I'd like to preserve our nation and its freedoms. Sticking one's head in the sand is only good until you pop it up and it gets chopped off.

Show me some foreigners who really want to come over here and take our freedom away and have the power to do it and I will be all for fighting them. So far, all I've seen in my lifetime are claims that are nothing more than pure bullshit. The only people really bent on taking our freedom away live in Washington, D.C.

Not only that, but even if we had a truly threatening enemy at the gates, what is any one person going to do?  And by commenting angrily on an Internet forum, no less... Likely changing nobody's mind.

The amount of depression, anger, fear, and mental energy people expend on things they can't control (when there are simultaneous things that they CAN control to significantly increase their happiness or reduce risk in their lives) is one of the biggest tragedies I see with the human mind.

[Mountaineer]

The amount of depression, anger, fear, and mental energy people expend on things they can't control (when there are simultaneous things that they CAN control to significantly increase their happiness or reduce risk in their lives) is one of the biggest tragedies I see with the human mind.

1007 I think. 

... Mountaineer

[dualstow]

dual and Wild,

I'm not advocating ignorance at all.  I am mainly asking about why watch someone slam obama 5000 times when a half dozen will show what he is like, or find out that a bunch of people are murdered by a terrorist - when it is the hundredth time I've heard that?  Why not just check in on internet sources, which are usually a bit more objective - maybe - than Fox or CNN or horror of horrors, MSNBC or Hufpost? 

Or the Telegraph? Because that's what Reub provided: a link to an internet source, not a Fox video. I'm with you on the not slamming anyone 5000 times.

And by the way, I don't watch much TV news either. My main source is written text, and the best stuff is in-depth and some time after the initial headiness blows over, as Greg said. Like Foreign Affairs.

I'm still curious as what we should DO with another islamic attack (or similar) memo?

I think different people do different things with the information they receive. Many, perhaps most, will do nothing. Maybe someone will cancel their flight to Copenhagen that was scheduled for next Tuesday. In my case, it led to a discussion of the topic with a long-time Italian friend (who's back in Italy).

If the question is a rhetorical one, yes maybe some of us post topics simply because we feel like it. Maybe it's a confirmation of our beliefs. Not every topic or news item is a call to arms.

[Reub]

I'm amazed to see the attitude here that ignorance is bliss. It is really a recipe for disaster. If one can't face up to what is really happening and how large a threat it is then there is no way that we could ever survive it. So go ahead  and rail away about a rogue cop or two if you must. That is much less traumatizing to the psyche than the real threat.

[Mountaineer]

I'm amazed to see the attitude here that ignorance is bliss. It is really a recipe for disaster. If one can't face up to what is really happening and how large a threat it is then there is no way that we could ever survive it. So go ahead  and rail away about a rogue cop or two if you must. That is much less traumatizing to the psyche than the real threat.

Reub, I'm honestly not trying to beat this to death.  I agree with your post above.  However, you still have not answered what you do with this type of info.  I can't speak for the others, but I certainly am not sticking my head in the sand and maybe you just want to make sure every last person knows what you think.  Actually, I can identify with that as I tend to do that on the religion thread, but I do have a stated purpose for doing it.  I'm just curious as to what your purpose is.  You do not need to answer, I won't likely do anything with the answer anyway and curiosity killed the cat 

Dualstow gave a very reasonable, actionable answer - maybe change travel plans or have an interesting discussion with a friend from Europe.

Peace dude!

... Mountaineer (Montani semper liberi [state motto] - and I want to keep it that way, note my avatar - I am ready for the hordes.) 

Edit:  Religion (Christianity) is under attack by far worse foes than the crazy muslims.  The worst attacks are silent and from within (you can interpret that several ways, all likely true).

[moda0306]

Ignorance might not be bliss.  Even if it's something you can't control that you are ignorant about.

But if there is a disaster happening, and you want to do what you can about it, if unable to do so for your country, then for you and your family, what is complaining about it on an Internet forum going to accomplish?

Look we might all disagree on facts, cause and effect relationships, moral philosophies, religious realities, etc. But I'd hope that we can agree on the fact that there's so many evils in the world we can focus on that we can't control, and plenty of addressable issues in our lives that we can, that causing ourselves material daily discomfort over the former at the expense of addressing the latter is going to have a materially negative affect on what our lives otherwise could have been... Regardless of what happens around us, politically.

[Reub]

Do I have all of the answers on what to do about the global threat of Islamo Fascism? No. But I feel that recognizing and realizing the threat is a prerequisite to any action. If one doesn't know what to do about a rapidly spreading fire they should still warn others and quickly call the fire department.

[fnord123]

It really is interesting how differently some of us see the world.  E.g. I read http://reason.com/archives/2011/09/06/h ... ism-should and it seems to me the concern some folks have with terrorism seems extremely overblown.

[WiseOne]

I think the fire alarm was pulled long ago.  The problem is that even if ISIS were to magically disappear overnight, attacks like this will continue as long as there are people out there who think there is only one "right" way to live and think.  (Which btw is a sentiment not limited to radical Muslims.)

The most important response, IMHO, is to avoid self-censorship at all costs.  And, perhaps, to recognize that random acts like this are not a new invention.  Just ask the UK/Northern Ireland, and even look at our own history.  The story of John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry comes to mind, as does the Mormon Mountain Meadows massacre.

[Pointedstick]

It really is interesting how differently some of us see the world.  E.g. I read http://reason.com/archives/2011/09/06/h ... ism-should and it seems to me the concern some folks have with terrorism seems extremely overblown.

I agree. While clearly part of a trend, these are still small-scale, individual events. The likelihood of my dying in a terrorist attack by some Muslim fundamentalist is dramatically, outrageously lower than my likelihood of being killed by a drunk driver or getting cancer or something. Additionally, most of these things seem to happen in European countries with poorly-trained police forces and no tradition of widespread gun ownership and carrying.

Frankly, if there are any geopolitical trends worth worrying about because they might seriously affect us badly at some point in the near future, it's probably what's going on Ukraine right now.

[moda0306]

Reub,

If there was a fire, and you could warn others to leave the premises to save their lives, I'd certainly agree with you doing so.  Similar for calling authorities.

Do you really think you're accomplishing the functional equivalent of either?

I say this respectfully man. Not trying to be condescending.