Captured Pilot Burned Alive by ISIS

[Reub]

These Sunni governments see the big elephant in the room, namely Iran. They see them acquiring nuclear weapons, hoodwinking Obama into a raproachment through lies and deception, and establishing their growing influence with new inroads into Syria, Iraq (thanks George Bush!), Lebanon, Yemen, even Argentina, to name a few. They see ISIS as a form of a counterweight to the dangerous Iran partially because we are no longer a counterweight to them and are, in fact, enabling them.

[Jan Van]

We Amerikanskis like to think we control things far more than we actually do. In the Middle East we have been "played" with some amazing finesse over the years for local agendas. In my view our biggest problem is that rather than being a large and evil force in the region, we are often a large and stupid force in the region.

No disagreement there. So why don't we hang back for a change to see how thing evolve, instead of trying to "fix" things?
At some point Isis will self implode, you heard it here first!

[Reub]

ISIS today announced that an American woman who they had previously captured has been killed in a Jordanian airstrike. I'll say it again, Islamic fascism needs to be called what it is and eradicated.

[dualstow]

ISIS today announced that an American woman who they had previously captured has been killed in a Jordanian airstrike.

A merciful way to go, I'm sure, relative to the fate that was awaiting her.

[moda0306]

ISIS today announced that an American woman who they had previously captured has been killed in a Jordanian airstrike. I'll say it again, Islamic fascism needs to be called what it is and eradicated.

We can call it whatever we want... that's semantics.

What I'm wondering is what do you mean by "eradicated?"  Who do you include in that category? And how do we accomplish it?


A few things that come to mind...

Which Islamic dictators does that include?

Which Islamic leaders does that include?

Which Islamic groups/individuals does that include?

What level of war or even genocide would we have to engage in to "eradicate" the enemy?



I'm not saying ISIS shouldn't be faught.  I just don't know what that kind of militaristic tone really means when people say it.

[Reub]

ISIS today announced that an American woman who they had previously captured has been killed in a Jordanian airstrike.

A merciful way to go, I'm sure, relative to the fate that was awaiting her.

They kidnapped her about 18 months ago. I doubt that she met her demise in the fashion that they announced, if at all.

[MachineGhost]

They kidnapped her about 18 months ago. I doubt that she met her demise in the fashion that they announced, if at all.

Why would they suddenly turn down the opportunity to terrorize the world yet again with her gruesome torture or execution?  Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

I'm still pretty amazed the world seems to be just sitting back taking all this.  At what point is the outrage great enough to prod all the sedentary vats of lard into an invasion force?  I don't have to be a NeoCon to be disgusted.

[Reub]

MG, this takes leadership and a fire in the belly of the man in the White House. He is only concerned with wealth distribution and racist cops.

[Ad Orientem]

They kidnapped her about 18 months ago. I doubt that she met her demise in the fashion that they announced, if at all.

Why would they suddenly turn down the opportunity to terrorize the world yet again with her gruesome torture or execution?  Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

I'm still pretty amazed the world seems to be just sitting back taking all this.  At what point is the outrage great enough to prod all the sedentary vats of lard into an invasion force?  I don't have to be a NeoCon to be disgusted.

It's entirely possible that she was killed in an airstrike. Those things happen in war. But this group has a long history lying. I'm with Reub on this one. Pending hard evidence, I would treat any reports of her demise with more than a grain of salt.

[dualstow]

ISIS has no credibility and could certainly be lying. For her sake, I hope they're not, and that she had a swift and painless death.

[Mountaineer]

MG, this takes leadership and a fire in the belly of the man in the White House. He is only concerned with wealth distribution and racist cops.

Don't forget golf and vacations. 

... Mountaineer

[Kbg]

They kidnapped her about 18 months ago. I doubt that she met her demise in the fashion that they announced, if at all.

Why would they suddenly turn down the opportunity to terrorize the world yet again with her gruesome torture or execution?  Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

I'm still pretty amazed the world seems to be just sitting back taking all this.  At what point is the outrage great enough to prod all the sedentary vats of lard into an invasion force?  I don't have to be a NeoCon to be disgusted.

Ok, let's say the invasion force is launched and successfully wipes ISIS off the face of the planet? Then what? The David Petraeus question is an excellent one. Combine it with Collin Powell's "you invade it you own it" observation and the magnitude of the problem becomes clear.

What's doubly whacked is Iran is actively spreading the notion the US is supporting and supplying ISIS.

I think a good old fashioned Cold War proxy fight makes a ton of sense in this case so long as we understand our proxy is using us as much as we are using them. Let's be Chinese on this one and play long ball.

[MachineGhost]

Ok, let's say the invasion force is launched and successfully wipes ISIS off the face of the planet? Then what? The David Petraeus question is an excellent one. Combine it with Collin Powell's "you invade it you own it" observation and the magnitude of the problem becomes clear.

How about we give the liberated Kurdistan back to the Kurds and proceed to topple the Syrian tyrant?  Then go home.  After all, the NeoCon's "own" a lot.  They need to finish the job.

I think a good old fashioned Cold War proxy fight makes a ton of sense in this case so long as we understand our proxy is using us as much as we are using them. Let's be Chinese on this one and play long ball.

Was the Soviet Union abducting innocent American civilians, torturing them and then executing them in gruesome ways publically?

Can you imagine this happening with the head of ISIS?  Come on!  http://video.pbs.org/video/2365371601/

[Reub]

Ok, let's say the invasion force is launched and successfully wipes ISIS off the face of the planet? Then what? The David Petraeus question is an excellent one. Combine it with Collin Powell's "you invade it you own it" observation and the magnitude of the problem becomes clear.

How about we give the liberated Kurdistan back to the Kurds and proceed to topple the Syrian tyrant?  Then go home.  After all, the NeoCon's "own" a lot.  They need to finish the job.

I think a good old fashioned Cold War proxy fight makes a ton of sense in this case so long as we understand our proxy is using us as much as we are using them. Let's be Chinese on this one and play long ball.

Was the Soviet Union abducting innocent American civilians, torturing them and then executing them in gruesome ways publically?

Can you imagine this happening with the head of ISIS?  Come on!  http://video.pbs.org/video/2365371601/

Your point about the Kurds is a salient one. If Obama would get off of his "high horse" and supply our friends the Kurds with the heavy weapons that they asked for a year ago ISIS would be well on its way to defeat. But his puppet masters in Tehran and Turkey might not approve. Again, Obama proves that he is an unreliable ally not to be trusted.

[madbean]

Your point about the Kurds is a salient one. If Obama would get off of his "high horse" and supply our friends the Kurds with the heavy weapons that they asked for a year ago ISIS would be well on its way to defeat.

The Kurds will probably end up with the same deal the Hmong got - resettlement in Detroit.

[Ad Orientem]

Your point about the Kurds is a salient one. If Obama would get off of his "high horse" and supply our friends the Kurds with the heavy weapons that they asked for a year ago ISIS would be well on its way to defeat.

The Kurds will probably end up with the same deal the Hmong got - resettlement in Detroit.

It's not that simple. Most countries in that area do not want an independent Kurdistan. Iraq (a nominal US ally) for fairly obvious reasons and also Turkey with its own large Kurdish minority and fears of an attempt to break away parts of their country.

[Kriegsspiel]

I believe the Kurds already have an American enclave, in Tennessee, of all places. I worked with a Kurdish American, briefly, and he was a very solid guy. They seem to be a pretty cool group of non-Arabs in the middle east. Unfortunately, like Ad says, nobody seems to want them to have their own country. Personally, I'd like to see Iraqi Kurdistan splinter off from that useless goddamn country, whereupon the Kurdish diaspora can head over there, Israel-style. See also: Pipe Dreams.

[Pointedstick]

Personally, I'd like to see Iraqi Kurdistan splinter off from that useless goddamn country, whereupon the Kurdish diaspora can head over there, Israel-style. See also: Pipe Dreams.

We even had an opportunity to do that when we invaded the country and decided to remake its institutions from scratch. Woulda been a simple matter.  Too sensible, I suppose.

[dualstow]

Personally, I'd like to see Iraqi Kurdistan splinter off from that useless goddamn country, whereupon the Kurdish diaspora can head over there, Israel-style. See also: Pipe Dreams.

+1. The Kurds deserve a state. They've been through enough.

I've only met one Kurd in my life, in London in 1990. Nice guy.

[MachineGhost]

I'm sensing Rambo V coming out of all this.  How pathetic that a fictitinous movie has more spine than Obama.

[MachineGhost]

MG maybe you should go do rather than talk.

I've been thinking about it.

[Reub]

Sorry if the Islamo fascist threat is becoming an annoyance for you.

personally it's not so much the threat i find annoying (i don't like it of course) it is the decade after decade of bumbling incompetence, flailing blindly and wishy washy directionless policies that get my goat. If the politicians don't have some sound understanding of the people and nations they are dealing with (..they haven't.. all the way back to carter and maybe beyond), some sound principals guiding their actions/interactions with these country's and their people. we will never get out of the mess that not having those things keeps creating. the random arming and supporting of one bad group/frenemy, then the next when circumstances change, and interfering for short term petrol dollar goals or momentary alliances wont fix the big problem. The military could whip these ISIS creeps or any other group of bad guys, but randomly fighting here and there, against this group then that, without a plan or an endgame (with the guys on the ground shackled by PC rules of engagement) wont get the job done... The overall approach we have taken in the middle east seems more like a recipe for endless war than one for victory.. if we wipe out ISIS today there will be a new enemy tomorrow just like there was Al Qaeda after the Taliban and Saddam after Al Qaeda, Iraq after Afghanistan etc etc etc

[Reub]

If Obama would have listened to his advisors and left a residual force in Iraq ISIS would still be the junior varsity team that our President was calling it.

[Jan Van]

If Obama would have listened to his advisors and left a residual force in Iraq ISIS would still be the junior varsity team that our President was calling it.

Maybe not, they still would have taken much ground in Syria. And (playing if..if..if games) if Obama in that case would have "had the spine" to bomb Assad to blithereens you still would have ISIS play a big role, slaughtering any Allawite, Shia and Christian in sight. 

[Jan Van]

I'm beginning to think that he dearly needs psychiatric help.

What they need is to realize that the USA isn't so sooperdooper great and awesome that it needs to meddle anywhere with anyone because obviously then things will be grrrrreatttttt!

You left "meddling in the Ukraine" off your list :-)