Our VP - adding returns and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)

A place to talk about speculative investing ideas for the optional Variable Portfolio

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sapperleader
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Our VP - adding returns and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)

Post by sapperleader »

Long time lurker, and evidently in the mood to post today :)  I danced around the PP and first heard about in 2008.  My wife and I went all in PP in 2012 with the thought that perfect is the enemy of good, and we would tweak our long term allocations as our finances merged and we developed our retirement strategy.  Throughout 2012 and 2013 we contributed to PP buying the trailing asset.  In 2014 we mostly purchased Variable assets, with occasional PP purchases.  That trend continues in 2015 where we are 50% purchasing variable assets, and 50% PP(mostly cash to replenish it after starting house building) .  We really like the PP as a strategy for our entire life, and one that doesn't involve guessing or timing the markets.  I love that it lets us track all of our assets across all accounts both taxable and retirement, while keeping healthy amounts of cash for liquidity.

At the same time, I do think the PP has weaknesses in times of prosperity.  It is not helped by the fact that we have near zero interest rates, which means all that lovely cash is getting eaten by inflation and that long term treasuries interest rates are what my savings account once gave.    It does well, but psychologically it may be difficult to see single digit returns when the market is returning double digits.  Additionally, we have concerns about Social Security availability by the time we retire,  and will not have any pensions in retirement, so having income streams during times of unemployment or retirement is appealing.  I have noticed that in the IT field a person's 50's tends to be a time of struggling to find employment at the wages they saw earlier in life, or their highest earning years and we want to be prepared for both scenarios with income streams outside of our jobs.  All that said, there is no free lunch, so greater returns comes with greater risk and volatility.

So to combat that, we came up with a strategy that adds returns from stock, and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)  The plan is to have us 60% PP, and 40% VP in retirement.  Currently we are 84/16 with 2-3 decades to go until retirement.  We re-balance with new cash contributions and try to avoid selling things.  Our Variable will be made up of 25% blue chip/dividend aristocrats, 7% REITS/real estate, and 8% TBD. 

My TBD category says this in our investing plan "• Other (determined by 2025), We will use this portion to plug in portfolio holes or weaknesses.  Possibilities include  Municipal Bonds,  balanced stock/bond funds like VWINIX or Life Style Growth, total bond indexes, or just increasing existing asset classes(cash is most appealing).  A mixture of approaches is a strong possibility, with current thoughts leaning towards bonds and cash  "

Our final allocation looks like it will be 15% Stock Index(PP), 15% LT bonds(PP), 15% Gold (PP) 15% cash(PP) 25% Dividend Aristocrats(VP), 7% REITS/Real Estate (VP), 8% TBD(VP) (as said above, likely cash and bonds).  That gives us roughly 40% stocks, 20% bonds, 15% gold, 18% cash, 7% real estate as our asset classes.

This follows Graham's advice of never having less than 25% stocks or more than 75%, while using Harry's PP principles to protect our core savings.  Combining low expenses with living off our income from VP(dividends, interest, and rent)  lets us rarely have to draw down PP cash.  It does give us the cushion of PP withdrawing for Great Depression/Great Recession level events when dividends and rent can dissapear. 

All in all we really like this strategy, and feel we can stick to it no matter what.  Variable investing does not have to involve speculating, but does need to have identified goals, follow whatever rules you write down before you start, and be accepting of greater volatility and risks.  If it involves stock picking(even giants like the Dividend Aristocrats) than rules for identifying and buying busineesses(stocks) needs to be developed.  I used bogleheads and Joshua Kennon's investing guide princibles in writing our Financial Plan.

I enjoy stock picking of the Aristocrats.  It is enjoyable picking out businesses, reading their financial documents, and reviewing the financial details and ratios.  My wife and I view it as buying parts of a business and plan on holding these stocks our entire life.  We definitely use the model of if the stock market closed for the next 10 years, are we OK owning this company, and if this company dropped 50% would we want to buy more of it(rather than panic selling).  I spend many hours each month reading the data, and spend a hour or two discussing our purchase options with my wife where we then decide what we are purchasing next.  I also spend many hours keeping an eye on what we own.  There are always buying opportunities, even when the market as a whole is at all new heights.  It often comes because Mr Market is freaking out about scandal or lower than expected earnings. 


If that doesn't sound fun, stick with indexes, they take way less time :)  I would love to hear folk's thoughts and questions.
goodasgold
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Re: Our VP - adding returns and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)

Post by goodasgold »

sapperleader wrote: At the same time, I do think the PP has weaknesses in times of prosperity.  It is not helped by the fact that we have near zero interest rates, which means all that lovely cash is getting eaten by inflation
To paraphrase "The Graduate," just "one word of advice: I-bonds."

It takes several years to build up I-bonds, but there are various ways to boost the maximum amount you are permitted to buy per annum.
sapperleader
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Re: Our VP - adding returns and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)

Post by sapperleader »

Thanks for the advice, we definitively love i-bonds :)  I actually just had lunch with a younger coworker and was telling him about the awesomeness of I-bonds.

  We do split our cash between shallow(t-bills, savings) and deep(ibonds and cd's).  That said, I think they help preserve purchasing power of cash, but are limited by the annual limits, and do not help with our two goals of increasing returns during prosperity and a income stream.  I love using the income stream from dividends now to buy more of all our assets(PP and VP) and it will be nice when we retire.

thanks for the feedback!
Last edited by sapperleader on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Phalanx
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Re: Our VP - adding returns and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)

Post by Phalanx »

Sapper,

In another thread, you mentioned that 30-50 Aristocrats can act like a mini index. Are you tracking that many stocks, or maybe less since you are also invested in a stock index? Does your IPS limit the percent of your portfolio that any individual stock may take, ie Abbott Labs cannot be more than 1% of your VP & PP combined?

Lastly, what role do you expect muni bonds to play in your portfolio, if you decide to invest in those?

Actually, the major asset class weightings for my portfolio are very similar to yours: 45% equity/15% real/40% fixed, noting that I probably have more LTTs than most around here. I plan to keep this asset allocation for the rest of my life. Ever since I stopped speculating/trading and began incorporating PP/Boglehead investment philosophy, I've been very happy with both the results & the peace of mind that comes with accepting that I do not know the future.
sapperleader wrote:At the same time, I do think the PP has weaknesses in times of prosperity.  It is not helped by the fact that we have near zero interest rates, which means all that lovely cash is getting eaten by inflation and that long term treasuries interest rates are what my savings account once gave.    It does well, but psychologically it may be difficult to see single digit returns when the market is returning double digits.
If the tracking error of the PP might make it difficult for you to have peace of mind, I don't think any on this board could begrudge you your VP. A pure PP won't help if you can't adhere to it.
sapperleader
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Re: Our VP - adding returns and income streams(dividends, bonds, real estate)

Post by sapperleader »

Hi Phalanx,

We currently have 33 companies that we own , and a total of 12 more that we are watching but have not yet purchased.  That is my upper limit I I can manage.  It is a balancing act between having a smaller number you can pay closer attention to, versus a larger number with less exposure to each company.  At this point we are viewing our VP as a complementary to the PP, and the IPS has various rules covering buying.  At its core it has the usual VP rules of not using PP money to replenish VP, but VP dividends/income or new cash can go to either.  the rules for capping individual stock can get tricky during accumulation, we have been shooting for 3% each, but due to different buying opportunities some core holdings are in the 5-7% range.  7% is our upper limit, we pass opportunities and pick something else when they get that high. We debated including the percentages we own through the stock index but decided that made things too complicated to manage.  On the upside, the indexes usually one 2 or 3%(or less) of the companies we own in the VP, so our max risk exposure caps out at 5% of portfolio total or so and that is for a very small handful of companies.  Additionally balancing sectors is hard since energy and consumer staples make up so much of the aristocrats out there.  It can also get tricky when many companies own shares in other companies(Altria for instance is tobacco, but also owns 30% of a brewery).  I feel we have a pretty good handle on it but time will tell.

Good question on the muni bonds, my wife asked the same question when I proposed them :)  If we do go with them, its because we wanted a intermediate bond fund for additional income streams, and needed to put them in taxable space.  Ideally we can use tax deferred space, and get a standard bond fund like total bond or be in a low enough tax bracket by that point that we don't need the muni's.  Future self has that problem to figure out, present self says he needs more data :)

I really appreciate your thoughts, I definitely realize that some can see my adding the VP as not needed, but I enjoy the alternate income streams and peace of mind during property or crisis.  I don't think the PP has a tracking error, just that the 4 cycles are not weighted equally(though the future is very much not predictable).  I love that the bulk of our assets are protected in great depression/great recession type events, or if we experience the fun Japan has had the past decades.  I actually got interested in dividend aristocrats when I was researching the great depression and found out how quickly the stock market recovered when you factored in dividends, and reading stories of families surviving off the extra income.
Thanks!
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