How to Normalize the PP's Risk

General Discussion on the Permanent Portfolio Strategy

Moderator: Global Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

There are several simple ways to fix the outsized influence of gold's risk so the portfolio's risk is normalized (or do I mean equalized?).

Trailing Volatility

This is the traditional approach.  First, set a target trailing volatility level, either a number you're comfortable with such as from bonds or the PP's average trailing volatility.  Let's say you decide on 10%.  So given that the trailing volatility of the risky assets are:

Stocks 20%
Bonds 12%
Gold 25%

Then:

Stocks 20% / 10% = 2.0 = 25% / 2.0 = 12.5%
Bonds  12% / 10% = 1.2 = 25% / 1.7 = 20.83%
Gold  25% / 10% = 2.5 = 25% / 2.5 = 10%
Cash  100% - Total of Above

To keep it robust, use the entire history for each of the risk assets so you're not curve fitting to a short-term economic subcycle that will prove to be sub-optimal weight going forward.

Maximum Drawdown

Similar to above, but rather than use trailing volatility, you use the maximum drawdown of each risky asset and decide on a portfolio maximum drawdown target aka portfolio heat.

Real Maximum Drawdown

Same as above, but you use the inflation-adjusted maximum drawdown of each risky asset.

Forward-Looking Volatility

Similar to above, but rather than use trailing volatility, you use the forward-looking implied volatility instead.  This is embeddded in long dated, at-the-money LEAP options for each of the risky assets.

Duration

Similar to the above, but rather than use volatility or maximum drawdown, you use the duration of each risky asset and decide on a portfolio weighted duration target.  This is most useful for those near retirement or with short-term goals to control potential capital losses before commencing withdrawals.  See: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/pe ... p/msg96254

Positive Years

Use an optimizer like Excel's Solver to come up with weights for each of the risky assets that targets for at least a 0% yearly PP return during each of the past 48 years.

Real Positive Years

Same as above, but use the inflation-adjusted yearly real return as a target instead.

Leverage

See: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/va ... #msg110582
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
azmat9
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:56 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by azmat9 »

Awesome, thank you so much!
azmat9
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:56 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by azmat9 »

How do you calculate the volatility of a given asset and do you normalize monthly or annually?
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

azmat9 wrote: How do you calculate the volatility of a given asset and do you normalize monthly or annually?
http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Histor ... Volatility

I would do it annually but using daily prices to make sure all moments are captured.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
frugal
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1019
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by frugal »

MG,

good morning!

But you still use 25% for all assets, right?


Best regards
Live healthy, live actively and live life! 8)
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

frugal wrote: But you still use 25% for all assets, right?
Yup, if only because 1 / 4 = 25%.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

MangoMan wrote: MG, in another thread [not sure which one] you came up with a division of

Stocks    33%
LTT        54%
Gold      13%

Which one of the risk normalizing methods was used to calculate that?
I do not remember.  Does it matter?
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

MangoMan wrote: Probably not, although I want to say that it was volatility, in which case the numbers don't jive with your first post above.

Also, in your opinion, is one of those methods preferable to the others?
Oh, I bet it was inverse volatility!  Can't see how the bond weight would be so high otherwise.

IMO, the forward-looking volatility is the most preferable.  It embeds the "wisdom of the crowd".  But personally I use maximum drawdown as a risk metric not volatility.
Last edited by MachineGhost on Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

MangoMan wrote: What would be the breakdown using MaxDD?
And yet you still use 4x25 regardless?
I dont know as I don't set an explicit MaxDD target.  I finds ways to reduce the MaxDD without modifying the portfolio weightings.  That may change now as I think it makes sense to risk level the three assets.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Lowe
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:54 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by Lowe »

The OP is about deciding how far to let an asset get out of balance, before re-balancing the portfolio, right?

So gold has the ordinary 10% bands, and stocks have 12.5% bands, and bonds have 20.83% bands.  This smooths gold's price swings, relative to stock's smaller swings, or bond's even smaller swings.  Correct me if I am misunderstanding the strategy.

I have done stuff like this already.  Recently I let stocks ride higher than I was supposed to.  I did not have a system, though.  I eventually got scared and rebalanced.
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

Lowe wrote: The OP is about deciding how far to let an asset get out of balance, before re-balancing the portfolio, right?

So gold has the ordinary 10% bands, and stocks have 12.5% bands, and bonds have 20.83% bands.  This smooths gold's price swings, relative to stock's smaller swings, or bond's even smaller swings.  Correct me if I am misunderstanding the strategy.
No, it's about modifying the strategic weights from 25% to whatever is necessary to level the risk contribution of the three assets to match each other.  In the standard HBPP, gold contributes more risk exposure than stocks and bonds; stocks more than bonds, etc..

I like the idea of using custom rebalancing bands for each asset, but the concept needs to prove itself worthy in backtesting.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Lowe
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:54 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by Lowe »

Haha, never mind then.  I have no idea what is going on.

If you decrease gold to 10%, based on a volatility estimate, then are the re-balance bands are then proportional to that ( 10 is to 25 what 4 is to 10 )?  You have probably talked about this elsewhere.
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: How to Normalize the PP's Risk

Post by MachineGhost »

Lowe wrote: Haha, never mind then.  I have no idea what is going on.

If you decrease gold to 10%, based on a volatility estimate, then are the re-balance bands are then proportional to that ( 10 is to 25 what 4 is to 10 )?  You have probably talked about this elsewhere.
No the rebalance bands would stay the same, and in theory all assets would then have an equal chance of hitting them unlike in the standard HBPP.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
Post Reply