[quote=doodle]But the products are being made oftentimes as a way to generate sales and produce money, not because they really are any better. [/quote]
But you cannot know they are better or worse, a priori. And "better" is in the eye of the beholder. Without a doubt a Harbor Freight angle grinder is inferior to a Metabo angle grinder, but both are superior to a file, at least in terms of speed of action and evenness of result (unless I am operating the grinder ).
And products often are found to have unanticipated or unintended uses (both good and bad). I don't think the manufacturers of hairspray and PVC pipe ever contemplated a potato cannon.
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute. The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"James Madison
In Doodletopia harbor freight junk wouldn't get manufactured because Doodletopians wouldn't want to manufacture and purchase junk of inferior quality that would do a substandard job and quickly break. For single quick uses there would be a thriving rental market for quality tools.....after all why take the effort to build and buy a tool that you are only going to use once and then leave sitting in your garage for decades? For people wishing to purchase a tool there would be a thriving second hand market full of high quality product as well. Doodletopians wouldn't waste their time working to build or buy a product that would end up in the scrap heap. There is a minimal increase in effort required to build something correctly in a quality fashion vs in a junky fashion but the quality product will not only do a better job, but also last 10 times as long.
As for PVC pipe and hairspray I don't see why products in Doodletopia couldn't be utilized for unintended applications....Doodletopians would have many hours to tinker and play around so I'm sure such thins would exist.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
doodle wrote:
For single quick uses there would be a thriving rental market for quality tools
Isn't that what Harbor Freight is? I once bought a Chicago Electric angle grinder, used it once for a job requiring an angle grinder, and then returned it the next day.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
doodle wrote:
For single quick uses there would be a thriving rental market for quality tools
Isn't that what Harbor Freight is? I once bought a Chicago Electric angle grinder, used it once for a job requiring an angle grinder, and then returned it the next day.
Hahahaha....some might consider that wrong, but very Doodletopian behavior. The way I justify such action is to say that I'm saving some poor soul the effort of having to assemble another angle grinder when I can just bump their inventory back up by returning this perfectly good one and reduce the stores future order for angle grinders. I also draw on environmental justification as well as a mitigating factor in my behavior :-)
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
My friend once bought a trailer hitch from A big box store to tow his motorcycle about 500 miles. When he was finished he returned it telling them it didn't work and got his money back knowing he would never use the hitch again and it looked brand new still anyways. At the time I thought that was dishonest, but under doodletopianism that is the correct action to take. Why manufacture another trailer hitch for someone else to buy, while my friends hitch just sits around in his garage.....that is stupid
Last edited by doodle on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
[quote=Pointedstick]Isn't that what Harbor Freight is? [/quote]
All I want to know is, where is Pittsburgh, China?
[quote=doodle]In Doodletopia harbor freight junk wouldn't get manufactured because Doodletopians wouldn't want to manufacture and purchase junk of inferior quality that would do a substandard job and quickly break. [/quote]
But Harbor Freight tools don't necessarily quickly break. I own a Harbor Freight angle grinder. I've used it many times (even to the point of grinding partially through the cord insulation, with a quick electrical tape repair), well beyond a reasonable tool life expectancy. It did not do a substandard job, it is of substandard manufacture (compared to more expensive tools), and on a per-use basis it probably competes with more expensive varieties.
I am glad I have the opportunity (and the market allows such) to make such choices.
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute. The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"James Madison
WAH, Doodletopia isn't about top down controls on the freedom of the market, it is about the market responding to bottom up pressures from a population that has bought into the tenets of Doodletopia. In Doodletopia people don't view consumption in the same manner that people do in our present society, therefore the way that goods get produced and sold is different.
In our present society there are many manufacturers of angle grinders of different quality. Most of them are sitting idle 99% of the time. Many of them are junk and quickly break or do a substandard job. These inefficiencies would drive Doodletopians crazy and a large population of Doodletopians would quickly design methods to reduce the inefficiency and waste of such a system. In our present non Doodletopian world people prefer to spend long hours manufacturing all different types of angle grinders so that they can go out and buy a tool that they use once and never again.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
Anyone want to make an offer on my Husqavarna (sp) chainsaw? Only used a couple of hours. Like new. I'll throw in a new chain and some bar oil. Oh, and you will have to determine how to make it start ..... Should have bought something at Harbor Freight.
... Mountaineer
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 6:23
Mountaineer wrote:
Anyone want to make an offer on my Husqavarna (sp) chainsaw? Only used a couple of hours. Like new. I'll throw in a new chain and some bar oil. Oh, and you will have to determine how to make it start ..... Should have bought something at Harbor Freight.
... Mountaineer
Has anyone come up with a tool sharing app or website that allows neighbors to share tools? If not this would be a great thing. I need a chainsaw for a small tree on my property and then probably won't ever need one again. I can easily handle the job but don't want to go out and spend a couple hundred dollars or more on a good chainsaw.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
[quote=doodle]WAH, Doodletopia isn't about top down controls on the freedom of the market, it is about the market responding to bottom up pressures from a population that has bought into the tenets of Doodletopia. In Doodletopia people don't view consumption in the same manner that people do in our present society, therefore the way that goods get produced and sold is different. [/quote]
My read of Doodletopia is the first thing that would be needed is a Minister of Production.
The market is almost always correct. If people want crap then that is what the market will provide. The reason we have Harbor Freight angle grinders and Metabo angle grinders is that there is a market for both. In Doodletopia, presumably, the one Metabo angle grinder would be deposited with the Minister of Tools awaiting check out. And the waiting list for angle grinder use would be long. The convenience provided by the market (not having to wait, check out, find, steal, etc. an angle grinder) is amazing.
And eventually that Harbor Freight angle grinder provided by the market might find its way to Goodwill, where a Doodletopian can buy it for $0.99! Another market!
[quote=Mountaineer]Anyone want to make an offer on my Husqavarna (sp) chainsaw? [/quote]
Sorry, I'm strictly a Stihl man.
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute. The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"James Madison
I don't think doodle is advocating for any kind of central planning. He's simply pointing out that the character of markets is determined by the character of the customers (you know, the thing that poor Kshartle couldn't wrap his head around!). If the customers mostly want high-quality tools, then the rich ones will buy them, and the poor ones will borrow or rent them rather than buying cheap, lower-quality ones.
Regardless, globalization will ensure that any Doodletopians who want to buy low-quality tools can do it online anyway.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
[quote=Pointedstick]I don't think doodle is advocating for any kind of central planning. He's simply pointing out that the character of markets is determined by the character of the customers (you know, the thing that poor Kshartle couldn't wrap his head around!). If the customers mostly want high-quality tools, then the rich ones will buy them, and the poor ones will borrow or rent them rather than buying cheap, lower-quality ones.[/quote]
Agree that that is doodle's point, but I liked using "Minister of Production" and "Minister of Tools" in a post
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute. The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"James Madison
).
I once bought a Chicago Electric angle grinder, used it once for a job requiring an angle grinder, and then returned it the next day.
Should have bought something at Harbor Freight.