Americas most hated family

[doodle]

I have to say, I admire Shirley's ability to stay relatively calm and collected when debating with the BBC reporter. Pretty fascinating how far these people are willing to go to deliver their message.

http://youtu.be/3pxE6_VY8aM

[Xan]

That video is like a train wreck; it's horrible but I can't look away!

[doodle]

Besides their message, the girls in the family seem quite likeable and down to earth. It's very odd the juxtaposition of such nice people with such a strong message of hate.

[Ad Orientem]

Demonic.

[doodle]

I don't know about that....they just choose to fixate on one particular aspect of the bible. I mean, in one way they could say that they are doing it out of love because they are trying to save people from eternal damnation. I mean, if you really believe in hell and you love your fellow man you would do anything you could to save them from an eternity of hellfire.

[clacy]

And here I thought this thread was going to about the Clintons or the Bushes.

Me too

[clacy]

Demonic.

Ya, it's really bizarre. 

Not to say that I don't judge people from time to time (far too much), but as a Christian you have to remind yourself that it's up to God to judge people.

These creeps are not only assuming far too much in their judgements, but they are also basking in hatred, IMO. 

[Mountaineer]

I don't know about that....they just choose to fixate on one particular aspect of the bible. I mean, in one way they could say that they are doing it out of love because they are trying to save people from eternal damnation. I mean, if you really believe in hell and you love your fellow man you would do anything you could to save them from an eternity of hellfire.

My internet friends might want to give this episode a listen for a good perspective on hell, even if you don't believe it ....... HELL?  YES !!!!!!  As for loving my fellow man, I do, but I won't send the internet police after you if you don't give it a listen. 

http://issuesetc.org/2014/07/18/1-hell- ... ind-71814/

... Mountaineer

[Xan]

I don't know about that....they just choose to fixate on one particular aspect of the bible. I mean, in one way they could say that they are doing it out of love because they are trying to save people from eternal damnation. I mean, if you really believe in hell and you love your fellow man you would do anything you could to save them from an eternity of hellfire.

doodle, that would be a reasonable perspective, but that is not theirs, at least from my interpretation of this video.

Calvinists believe that there are those who were predestined for damnation at the foundation of the world, and those who were predestined for salvation.  Typically, Calvinists agree that we can't really tell who's who.  This can (and should, in my opinion) lead to a serious crisis because no individual person can know for sure that he is in the Elect.  They do believe in Baptism and [a form of] the Lord's Supper, but they believe those are only effective for the Elect, so there isn't any comfort there.

But I digress.  Calvinists are somewhat unique in that they have a rational, logical answer to the "why do bad things happen to good people" question, which I'm sure is a huge part of its appeal.  The answer is that all things that happen in this world are for the good of the Elect.  And bad things can happen to people who seem to be good, but they are actually not Elect.

Remember the scene where the girl says that if she got hit by a car and killed, that it would mean that she was going to Hell, and that her father would be happy because we should rejoice when God exercises his judgment against hellbound sinners?  That's the Calvinist doctrine taken to an extreme.

The other twist these Westboro people have put on it is that they've decided that they (and only they) are Elect.  This is far, far outside the Calvinist mainstream (in addition to violating clear lessons in the Bible) that we don't know who is Elect and who isn't.  (The parables of the sower and the seed, for example, or the wheat and the weeds.)

My point here, doodle, is that they aren't doing all this picketing out of love.  They have no hope of warning anybody, converting anybody, or changing minds.  They have no hope of delivering the Gospel, because, from what I can tell, they don't have Clue #1 as to what the Gospel ["good news"] is.  From the video, they are A-OK with getting a 100% negative response, because that reinforces their belief that they are uniquely Godly in this world.

They say "this is loving", but they don't mean it.  They think they're doing God's will by announcing to everybody that they're going to Hell.  Critically, they are not WARNING people that their current course leads that direction, they are ANNOUNCING that everybody besides themselves was predestined to damnation from the foundation of the world.

I don't know why they've fixated on their favorite issue the way they have, but there are MASSIVE theological problems that run a lot deeper than that with these people.  I think Ad Orientem is right.

[Mountaineer]

Questions:

Are the Westboro demons any worse than the demons that surround and sometimes possess the rest of us?  Or just more visible?  Is the Westboro "family" more sinful than you or me?  What do you propose to do with that information you just developed?


demon - noun
1 an evil spirit or devil, esp. one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
• a cruel, evil, or destructive person or thing

sin - noun
an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law: a sin in the eyes of God | the human capacity for sin.
• an act regarded as a serious or regrettable fault, offense, or omission

... Mountaineer

[Ad Orientem]

Questions:

Are the Westboro demons any worse than the demons that surround and sometimes possess the rest of us?  Or just more visible?  Is the Westboro "family" more sinful than you or me?  What do you propose to do with that information you just developed?

Hmmm... Exorcism?

[Mountaineer]

Questions:

Are the Westboro demons any worse than the demons that surround and sometimes possess the rest of us?  Or just more visible?  Is the Westboro "family" more sinful than you or me?  What do you propose to do with that information you just developed?

Hmmm... Exorcism?

That might work.

... Mountaineer

[Xan]

The same filmmaker visited again four years later (2010, I think) and did a sequel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJbam-Ph7nA

[barrett]

Desert, I agree with you that its amazing they have not been knocked off. Could it be that the rest of our society is more civilized than they are? My 16-year-old daughter is watching the segment right now and says she feels like it's an episode of Animal Planet.

[doodle]

We should remember that we are judging these peoples actions from our particular point in history. In the Middle Ages the vast majority of us would have probably gone along with them especially if some tragedy were to befall our town.

[doodle]

Im confused....I thought that Jesus preached to love your enemy.

You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Christians baffle me in the way they just completely ignore the central teachings of their savior.......

[Ad Orientem]

Im confused....I thought that Jesus preached to love your enemy.

You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Christians baffle me in the way they just completely ignore the central teachings of their savior.......

These people aren't Christians. They are a cult.

[doodle]

Im confused....I thought that Jesus preached to love your enemy.

You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Christians baffle me in the way they just completely ignore the central teachings of their savior.......

These people aren't Christians. They are a cult.

Here you have Christians on both sides hating each other........yay religion!

Christianity itself is a cult....

[Ad Orientem]

Im confused....I thought that Jesus preached to love your enemy.
Christians baffle me in the way they just completely ignore the central teachings of their savior.......

These people aren't Christians. They are a cult.

Here you have Christians on both sides hating each other........yay religion!

Christianity itself is a cult....

You misunderstand. I do not hate them. I hate what they are doing under the false pretense of Christianity.

[doodle]

But yeah, society in general is more restrained than I would expect, at times.  If these freaks showed up at the funeral of one of my relatives, I think I'd make the national news. 

Shouldn't you love them desert?

[doodle]

You Christians are a bunch of hypocrites, which is what frustrates me so much. You know every arcane inconsequential detail of about the bible but you completely ignore and refuse to apply the central teachings to your life......what's worse, you don't even try!...maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote though. Maybe your overflowing love and compassion towards these people is what would make the evening news?

Stop calling yourselves Christians if you completely ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ for crying out loud!

[Ad Orientem]

You Christians are a bunch of hypocrites, which is what frustrates me so much. You know every arcane inconsequential detail of about the bible but you completely ignore and refuse to apply the central teachings to your life......what's worse, you don't even try!...maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote though. Maybe your overflowing love and compassion towards these people is what would make the evening news?

Stop calling yourselves Christians if you completely ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ for crying out loud!

Of course we are hypocrites! And we all sin repeatedly, despite knowing we should not. But that really is kinda the point of Christianity. Christ did not come into the world to save the righteous. A monk was once asked what he and the other monks did all day long. He replied, "we fall down and then get back up."

I am not sure who or what set you off on this little anti-religious tear, but maybe you should go watch a movie or do something relaxing. You seem rather tightly wound this morning.

[doodle]

You Christians are a bunch of hypocrites, which is what frustrates me so much. You know every arcane inconsequential detail of about the bible but you completely ignore and refuse to apply the central teachings to your life......what's worse, you don't even try!...maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote though. Maybe your overflowing love and compassion towards these people is what would make the evening news?

Stop calling yourselves Christians if you completely ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ for crying out loud!

Of course we are hypocrites! And we all sin repeatedly, despite knowing we should not. But that really is kinda the point of Christianity. Christ did not come into the world to save the righteous. A monk was once asked what he and the other monks did all day long. He replied, "we fall down and then get back up."

I am not sure who or what set you off on this little anti-religious tear, but maybe you should go watch a movie or do something relaxing. You seem rather tightly wound this morning.

Hahaha! I don't think I am capable of having a discussion about Christianity if I have to to suspend all logical reason in order to do so.

My only consolation regarding this topic is that organized religion and faith in the bible has been in a century long decline. One day humans will look back on all this nonsense and chuckle at our superstitious ignorance in the same way we do when we look at any of the long dead religious systems of our ancestors.

[Pointedstick]

Hahaha! I don't think I am capable of having a discussion about Christianity if I have to to suspend all logical reason in order to do so.

My only consolation regarding this topic is that organized religion and faith in the bible has been in a century long decline. One day humans will look back on all this nonsense and chuckle at our superstitious ignorance in the same way we do when we look at any of the long dead religious systems of our ancestors.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... ivil-6079/

[Mountaineer]

You Christians are a bunch of hypocrites, which is what frustrates me so much. You know every arcane inconsequential detail of about the bible but you completely ignore and refuse to apply the central teachings to your life......what's worse, you don't even try!...maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote though. Maybe your overflowing love and compassion towards these people is what would make the evening news?

Stop calling yourselves Christians if you completely ignore the teachings of Jesus Christ for crying out loud!

doodle, you are so very stuck in the law.  I hope that one of these days you will hear and understand the central message of Christianity is the Gospel.

... Mountaineer