Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

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Maddy
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by Maddy » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:38 am

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:12 am

Do you have an example of Omar being an apologist for FGM?

You have misquoted me.

Maddy wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:03 am
That's been the elephant in the livingroom since the beginning. . . How is it that an apologist for a culture that claims the right to dismember a woman's genitalia against her will ends up in this position to begin with? Is a person whose culture absolutely precludes her from making decisions independent of patriarchal authority disqualified from acting as a US Congressional representative by virtue of the fact that she is de facto incompetent, controlled by who-knows-what unelected, unaccountable persons or entities?
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:45 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:59 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:01 pm
Maddy wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:03 am
How is it that an apologist for a culture that claims the right to dismember a woman's genitalia against her will ends up in this position to begin with?
Mutilating penii is part of the American culture, but lots of males are politicians.
I'm not sure what argument this point advances, but surely you don't equate the removal of a foreskin with the various extreme forms of FGM. Review the anatomy. The closest anatomical approximation in a male would be the complete amputation of the penis coupled with the construction of a crude opening for the excretion of urine.

The circumcision debate is fine, and no doubt there are men who feel violated by having had this procedure performed on them during infancy, but the reality of that procedure puts it on par with the removal of a skin tag--a far cry from the radical procedures performed in muslim cultures for the purpose of disabling women for life.
I was making the point that male US politicians are usually proponents of American culture, which mutilates genitals too. I don't think we need to get into a excretion of urine contest about who is better at it.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by moda0306 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:04 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:38 am
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:12 am

Do you have an example of Omar being an apologist for FGM?

You have misquoted me.

Maddy wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:03 am
That's been the elephant in the livingroom since the beginning. . . How is it that an apologist for a culture that claims the right to dismember a woman's genitalia against her will ends up in this position to begin with? Is a person whose culture absolutely precludes her from making decisions independent of patriarchal authority disqualified from acting as a US Congressional representative by virtue of the fact that she is de facto incompetent, controlled by who-knows-what unelected, unaccountable persons or entities?
That wasn't a quote... more so an assumption that your accusation had more teeth/specifics, especially considering how much almost every politician has been an apologist of a culture that (insert terrible institutional practice here), but actually defends the practice... many of whom are controlled by who-knows-what unelected, unaccountable persons or entities.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:12 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:45 pm
I don't think we need to get into a excretion of urine contest
LOL!!
Perfect
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by Maddy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:50 am

No "contest" is needed, and none is implied. The fact is that there is no practice even remotely analogous to FGM in western culture.

No doubt there are men who will whine about being "mutilated" in infancy as the result of routine circumcision, and perhaps they have a legitimate gripe. But that's irrelevant to this discussion. The fact is that there are many examples within mainstream American culture of children being subjected to significant bodily intrusions against their will. We pull rotten teeth out of children's heads, inject them with vaccines, amputate cancerous limbs, sew up cleft palates, and perform a whole host of similar procedures--all intended in some manner to benefit the child or (in rare cases) to achieve a public health benefit. Not a one of them is carried out with the purpose of physically disabling a person in a ritualized expression of subjugation. To the contrary, FGM is a practice that, both symbolically and in actuality, expresses the nearly complete subjugation of a woman to to the will of her father or husband (and to an extended cast of male characters that make up the patriarchal society). It demonstrates, quite graphically, that she has no control or prerogatives when it comes to even the most personal aspects of life and personhood.

So I find it more than a little eyebrow-raising that a female apologist for a culture that neither recognizes nor allows women to exercise any independent agency not only ends up in Congress but positions herself front and center with a bullhorn as some kind of vanguard of the Radical Left. Isn't the obvious inference that she is not acting of her own accord, but rather at the behest of unidentified persons or entities? The argument that every politician is corrupt and acting under the influence of others does not mitigate or detract from the dubious constitutional validity of this situation. Not only does the kind of "influence" we're talking about defy normal public disclosure and campaign finance laws, this woman's culture and beliefs may very well have rendered her incapable of acting independently and therefore de facto incompetent to act as a United States congressional representative.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by dualstow » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:54 pm

I like that first paragraph, Maddy.

As for the second, it is ironic isn't it. There have been accusations that AOC is being "run" by the Young Turks guy if I remember that right. Was it kriegsspiel who posted the video? What I've always felt about Omar is not that she's being controlled by someone else but that she is either blind to her hypocrisy or chooses to be. She picks and chooses what she likes about each culture. We all do, but most of us are not in office.

I would think a lot of anti-Israel people are happy ("At least she's working to defund Israel"), but overall I see her as dangerous.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by pugchief » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:08 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:54 pm
What I've always felt about Omar is not that she's being controlled by someone else but that she is either blind to her hypocrisy or chooses to be. She picks and chooses what she likes about each culture. We all do, but most of us are not in office.
Or maybe she's just not all that bright?
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by Maddy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:05 pm

pugchief wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:08 pm
dualstow wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:54 pm
What I've always felt about Omar is not that she's being controlled by someone else but that she is either blind to her hypocrisy or chooses to be. She picks and chooses what she likes about each culture. We all do, but most of us are not in office.
Or maybe she's just not all that bright?
Occam's Razor prevails again!
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by moda0306 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 am

The argument that every politician is corrupt and acting under the influence of others does not mitigate or detract from the dubious constitutional validity of this situation.


Mandy...

Yeah it kind of does.

We are only given the options we have and the flaws of the alternatives “mitigate and detract” from the flaws of other candidates or representatives. Just like the fact that you’re an apologist for an orange buffoon with his finger on the button is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Hillary was awful. Not fully of course, as Trumpists still look like fucking clowns, but at least they have that going for them.

More to the point though, In what way is she an apologist for that culture? And how is she dangerous? To me she’s just a naive freshmen congresswoman like any other but with a leftist political angle. She’s far less likely to pose a threat to this country than most deep state perma-war mongers... you know like Elliott Abrams. Who she roundly and rightly smacked around on his history in South America.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by dualstow » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:36 am

moda0306 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 am
And how is she dangerous?
I know exactly how this would escalate if I responded the way I want to. Suffice it to say, I think she is no less guilty of inciting racial hatred than Orange Man. Guiltier, actually.

Either evidence will show some collusion between Omar and Qatar, in which case I’ll add it to this thread, or it won’t.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by moda0306 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:01 am

dualstow wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:36 am
moda0306 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 am
And how is she dangerous?
I know exactly how this would escalate if I responded the way I want to. Suffice it to say, I think she is no less guilty of inciting racial hatred than Orange Man. Guiltier, actually.

Either evidence will show some collusion between Omar and Qatar, in which case I’ll add it to this thread, or it won’t.
Collusion with foreign (Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia) and domestic (capital, oil & gas, banking) interests that differ from mine is common af. However I’m not about giving anyone a pass so if what she did borders on corruption let the facts speak for themselves.

I promise I won’t escalate any debate around her “inciting” racial hatred. I’m legit curious. I find the way incitement is used as an accusation (even towards trump) to be a bit odd as people tend to be really good at seeing incitement by their political enemies and not by themselves. Many have seen the criticisms of Omar to be “incitement” and while I find it all to be a bit much I am legit curious what evidence and examples people have to prove their case. I respect you dualstow so I promise I won’t go all snarky dick on you.
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Re: Omar accused of treasonous plot with Qatar

Post by dualstow » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:15 pm

I respect you, too, and I understand if you don't see it as incitement. There is no incitement in the legal sense of goading someone to get out their pitchfork. (Nor with Trump).
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