Assange

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Tyler
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Re: Assange

Post by Tyler » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:24 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:25 pm
What the feds are actually accusing him of seems to be conspiring with Bradley Manning to actually steal documents via hacking. If he did that, would that make him more of a criminal and less of a journalist?

Well, in that case the individual who physically stole the documents and gave them to Wikileaks was pardoned* by Obama. I don't see how an unbiased observer can defend that decision while prosecuting Assange. And if we get too deep in the weeds of a publisher conspiring with an insider to illegally obtain classified info, that could get really murky for the media and their government sources really quickly.

BTW, if the general public really does get on board with the idea of taking someone down for illegally storing and disseminating massive amounts of classified data, can you even imagine the cognitive dissonance of parallel trials for Assange and Hillary?

(*) I'm leaving this up because it was quoted by others, but to clarify Manning wasn't technically pardoned but had his sentence commuted and was released from prison seven years into a 35 year sentence. Still, even if guilty it will be interesting to see what sentence people think is appropriate for Assange but not Manning.
Last edited by Tyler on Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:36 am, edited 15 times in total.
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moda0306
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Re: Assange

Post by moda0306 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:25 pm

Tyler wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:35 pm
My feelings are complicated on this one. I can see the argument that his actions releasing classified information harmed the United States and deserves punishment. I can also see the argument that he's no different than a journalist that does this all the time with zero fear of any repercussions. And on top of that, Assange's track record for truth is much higher than that of the US media that regularly selectively leaks classified information or outright lies about it for political purposes. I always find it interesting when people attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

So to me, the core issue here is equal application of the law. Either hold him to the same standard you hold journalists and give him an award, or hold journalists to the same standard you hold him and start handing out indictments. I suspect Trump may see this as a chance to drain the swamp all around, so this may just be the beginning of a very interesting summer. I also think there's a non-zero chance he ends up cooperating in taking down a whole host of other people based on what he knows, so I probably wouldn't be celebrating this news if I'm a politician with something to hide.
Let's not forget also holding politicians accountable for war crimes and the lies that made them plausible, as well as lies about the surveillance state.
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moda0306
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Re: Assange

Post by moda0306 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm

Do we really see Trump doing something favorable for Assange after Pompeo called them a "non-state hostile intelligence service?"

I mean Assange is basically a hulked-out version of Snowden... and Trump wanted to execute Snowden.
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Re: Assange

Post by jacksonM » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:59 pm

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in court if he is ever extradited to the United States. I tend to think that won't happen however.

The reason I think he will never stand trial in the U.S. is because the powers that be will not want all the dirty laundry aired in court and also because of the risk of having the whole case thrown out by a judge (re: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers).
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Re: Assange

Post by technovelist » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:59 pm

jacksonM wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:59 pm
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in court if he is ever extradited to the United States. I tend to think that won't happen however.

The reason I think he will never stand trial in the U.S. is because the powers that be will not want all the dirty laundry aired in court and also because of the risk of having the whole case thrown out by a judge (re: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers).
I think he will be extradited to the US, to help Barr lock up the actual criminals.
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Re: Assange

Post by sophie » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:33 am

Tyler wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:24 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:25 pm
What the feds are actually accusing him of seems to be conspiring with Bradley Manning to actually steal documents via hacking. If he did that, would that make him more of a criminal and less of a journalist?

Well, in that case the individual who physically stole the documents and gave them to Wikileaks was pardoned by Obama. I don't see how an unbiased observer can defend that decision while prosecuting Assange. And if we get too deep in the weeds of a publisher conspiring with an insider to illegally obtain classified info, that could get really murky for the media and their government sources really quickly.
Ha! I forgot about that. Chelsea Manning was (sort of) pardoned, so how come posting the stolen documents is worthy of extradiction & prosecution?

There's no question in my mind that if the documents Julian Assange posted provided dirt on Trump that resulted in Hillary winning the election, no one would be going after him and he wouldn't have had to hole up in the Ecuadorian embassy for 7 years. And there would be no investigation into election meddling, either. BTW, who do you all think pressured Ecuador into withdrawing Assange's asylum protection?
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Re: Assange

Post by technovelist » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:25 am

sophie wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:33 am
Tyler wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:24 pm
Xan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:25 pm
What the feds are actually accusing him of seems to be conspiring with Bradley Manning to actually steal documents via hacking. If he did that, would that make him more of a criminal and less of a journalist?

Well, in that case the individual who physically stole the documents and gave them to Wikileaks was pardoned by Obama. I don't see how an unbiased observer can defend that decision while prosecuting Assange. And if we get too deep in the weeds of a publisher conspiring with an insider to illegally obtain classified info, that could get really murky for the media and their government sources really quickly.
Ha! I forgot about that. Chelsea Manning was (sort of) pardoned, so how come posting the stolen documents is worthy of extradiction & prosecution?

There's no question in my mind that if the documents Julian Assange posted provided dirt on Trump that resulted in Hillary winning the election, no one would be going after him and he wouldn't have had to hole up in the Ecuadorian embassy for 7 years. And there would be no investigation into election meddling, either. BTW, who do you all think pressured Ecuador into withdrawing Assange's asylum protection?
I think it was a deal between the US and Ecuador.

And of course you're right that we would know nothing about election meddling if Hillary had won.
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Re: Assange

Post by jacksonM » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:10 am

Andy McCarthy from National Review, much more knowledgeable about such things than I am, shares my belief that Assange will never see the inside of an American court room.

Lots of food for thought in this article, including the question of why was Bernie Sanders not the target of an investigation for colluding with the Russians? Emails reveal that the DNC hackers only thought Trump had a 25% chance of defeating Hillary and it was Bernie Sanders they were really trying to help.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/ ... th-russia/
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