Assange

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Xan
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Assange

Post by Xan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:52 am

Curious what everybody's thoughts are on Julian Assange.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Assange

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:25 am

Summary of my thoughts: Who? ;D ;D ;D

On a slightly more serious note: Behavior has consequences
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Re: Assange

Post by technovelist » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:22 pm

I think he is going to be helping Barr figure out exactly what happened in the 2016 election.
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pugchief
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Re: Assange

Post by pugchief » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:24 pm

OTOH, the elites are out to get this guy because he is telling their secrets. Is he a criminal, or just someone the authorities want out of the way? I don't know which it is.
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Tyler
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Re: Assange

Post by Tyler » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:35 pm

My feelings are complicated on this one. I can see the argument that his actions releasing classified information harmed the United States and deserves punishment. I can also see the argument that he's no different than a journalist that does this all the time with zero fear of any repercussions. And on top of that, Assange's track record for truth is much higher than that of the US media that regularly selectively leaks classified information or outright lies about it for political purposes. I always find it interesting when people attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

So to me, the core issue here is equal application of the law. Either hold him to the same standard you hold journalists and give him an award, or hold journalists to the same standard you hold him and start handing out indictments. I suspect Trump may see this as a chance to drain the swamp all around, so this may just be the beginning of a very interesting summer. I also think there's a non-zero chance he ends up cooperating in taking down a whole host of other people based on what he knows, so I probably wouldn't be celebrating this news if I'm a politician with something to hide.
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Re: Assange

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:24 pm

Trump today:

President Donald Trump, when asked if he still "loves" WikiLeaks as he said in 2016, told reporters in the Oval Office that he knows "nothing about WikiLeaks."

"I know nothing about WikiLeaks. It's not my thing and I know there is something having to do with Julian Assange.
------------------
Sorry, this probably belongs in the Trump Tragicomedy thread....I could have gotten so much further in life if I didn't care about lying. ;)
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Xan
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Re: Assange

Post by Xan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:25 pm

Good points all, Tyler. I'm with you on it being complicated with no easy answers.

Pug is right that this has all the hallmarks of the "powers that be" wanting to get rid of somebody who's inconvenient.

What the feds are actually accusing him of seems to be conspiring with Bradley Manning to actually steal documents via hacking. If he did that, would that make him more of a criminal and less of a journalist?
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Re: Assange

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:29 pm

Interesting Tweet from journalist Glenn Greenwald:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1 ... 8688294915
Here's the extremely contentious interview I did with @NPR this morning on @MorningEdition about the Assange arrest, which became contentious at the start because NPR weirdly lied by introducing me as a "colleague of Julian Assange" - starts at 3:32
Oops, interview is gone now.

Another Tweet from Greenwald:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1 ... 3870425090
NPR bizarrely seems to have deleted their own lie-filled interview with me and replaced it with something else, even as it still promotes the page as including its interview of me. Where is it, @MorningEdition?
If you check out that second link, other Twitter users who recorded the interview are responding with links of mirrors of the interview in the thread so you can hear it. But then they start to become unavailable, and another user posts a link.

I have no idea what is going on, but it is pretty obvious that there is a serious battle going on in the background of the internet right now to frame the Assange narrative as:

Assange= Allbadthings

Greenwald's interview might be worth a listen while it is still available.

Interesting take here from journalist John Pilger.

His basic point:
Assange showed the media is an appendage of ESTABLISHED POWER. He shone a light on that & that was UNFORGIVABLE
https://twitter.com/Underground_RT/stat ... 2330214401
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Xan
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Re: Assange

Post by Xan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Xan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:25 pm
Good points all, Tyler. I'm with you on it being complicated with no easy answers.

Pug is right that this has all the hallmarks of the "powers that be" wanting to get rid of somebody who's inconvenient.

What the feds are actually accusing him of seems to be conspiring with Bradley Manning to actually steal documents via hacking. If he did that, would that make him more of a criminal and less of a journalist?
Having listened to the Greenwald interview (thanks sweetbthescrivener), it seems that he's only accused of "encouraging" Manning to get more documents. Sounds pretty bogus.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Assange

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:42 pm

Tyler wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:35 pm
My feelings are complicated on this one. I can see the argument that his actions releasing classified information harmed the United States and deserves punishment. I can also see the argument that he's no different than a journalist that does this all the time with zero fear of any repercussions. And on top of that, Assange's track record for truth is much higher than that of the US media that regularly selectively leaks classified information or outright lies about it for political purposes. I always find it interesting when people attack the messenger while ignoring the message.

So to me, the core issue here is equal application of the law. Either hold him to the same standard you hold journalists and give him an award, or hold journalists to the same standard you hold him and start handing out indictments. I suspect Trump may see this as a chance to drain the swamp all around, so this may just be the beginning of a very interesting summer. I also think there's a non-zero chance he ends up cooperating in taking down a whole host of other people based on what he knows, so I probably wouldn't be celebrating this news if I'm a politician with something to hide.
It's a grey situation, for sure. But I want to highlight one part:
Assange's track record for truth is much higher than that of the US media that regularly selectively leaks classified information or outright lies about it for political purposes. I always find it interesting when people attack the messenger while ignoring the message.
For me, one of the strikes against Assange/Wikileaks was that they didn't selectively leak something that was wrong (a la Snowden). Manning downloaded a shit ton of material and just handed it over. Then Wikileaks published everything. I agree transparency is good when it's to show us that our government is spying on us. Or was covering up a crime. But who benefits from knowing EDIT: OPSEC issues? Rhetorical.

But your point is valid. It's strange to me that people who mishandle classified information (especially for political purposes) with seeming impunity. In the military you'd be crushed.
Last edited by Kriegsspiel on Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Assange

Post by stuper1 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:44 pm

sweetbthescrivener wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:29 pm
the media is an appendage of ESTABLISHED POWER

How could it be any other way?

Anyone who thinks otherwise is terribly naive.

All that stuff we're taught in school about a free press being necessary for democracy, and sunlight is the best disinfectant, and whatever else, is just propaganda.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Assange

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:45 pm

Related, people who knew Manning in the military told me he was a piece of shit. Personally, I think of Snowden as principled, and Manning as someone who just wanted to see the world burn.
Only a few prefer liberty-- the majority seek nothing more than fair masters.
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